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RE: Switches - 7/30/2008 4:48:29 PM   
MsStarlett


Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		What totally confuses me is the number of men who list themselves as Dominants who claim to have a desire to submit to me.  I currently have a "Dom" from the UK writing me a very lovely, ongoing scenario in which he is gagging while licking my bathroom tile clean... wishing to kiss my shoes and wear my collar.  Doesn't sound very "Domish" to me.  I'm not even sure I would call this guy a Switch.

_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to IvyMorgan)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Switches - 8/1/2008 6:26:17 AM   
pettingdragons


Posts: 421
Joined: 8/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
Interesting point of view.
Master/slave also known as M/s usually refers to Leather Folk.

i have been in the involved in BDsM for 20 years....i have never heard M/s referred to as Leather Folk. Could you please tell me where you are getting your reference?

A Dom can be a Dom and Not consider himself a Master because he is not Leather Protocol and he may enjoy receiving a Flogging from time to time Makeing him the Bottom in that session.

In my opinion if a Dominant bottomed he would be a switch and it would really ruin it for me. Of course a Dominant can be a Master or not. What does Leather Protocol have to do with it?

I think you are pushing your own views on the BDSM Community. You will find that there are many points of views.

Now Steel, who is pushing their views, its just a quesiton and a statment on personal believes....as the OP question was asked and opinions are given...i mean i really dont agree with most people on this board, but then i still very miuch enjoy reading the different views. its facinanting how the mind works and how others percive things....i do have to say that this is the first time i have ever disagreed with a post you have made...LOL
 
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: leakylee
that doesnt qualify me as a switch. there is no change in power or dynamic. it is strictly about the event. still wrapped up in service.
lee


What qualifies you as a switch?
 i am a slave, and a switch (where sometimes there is or is not a power exchange) . they are each seperate for ME, but then each person has their own view on what the "titles" are.
 
 

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Switches - 8/1/2008 3:06:08 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline 		femalesub41,

quote:

It confuses me that so many Masters say they want a submissive or a switch.  Does that mean the Master wants to switch?


It means different things to different Masters.  Some want a submissive who does not switch with them, but are willing to date a switch.  Some want to switch with their partner.  Others don't want to switch, but they like receiving sadistic sensations so they want a partner who is willing to do this when so commended.  (Keep in mind that a bottom isn't necessarily a submissive or a slave.)  There are probably other reasons (too) that I've not listed.  Each person has their own answer so you'd have to ask a specific Master.

quote:

Does it mean they can be submissive to the Master and switch with someone else?


Here I believe you're talking about a switch.  Yes, some switches are submissive with one partner and dominant with another.  In some relationships, the switch is only ever in one role with their partner, but the partners have consented that the switch may "switch" with others.  It's also true that both partners may switch with one another.  There is no single, steadfast answer.  Not all switches desire to switch.  In other words, just because someone is capable of switching doesn't mean they want to.  I know switches who are happily in monogamous relationships and they don't switch because they've found dynamics their partner that work for both people.

quote:

So many Dom's state they want to meet switches or submissives.  Does that mean they are switches?


I suppose it might mean that some are switches.  Generally though, I think all it means is that they are open to meeting switches.  Most self-identified dominants I've met are dominants.  That said, many people are complex and multifaceted, and rarely fit neatly into one categorization.

Elan.

< Message edited by ElanSubdued -- 8/1/2008 3:18:31 PM >

(in reply to femalesub41)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Switches - 8/1/2008 3:34:19 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline 		MasterDragon1963

quote:

So if a Dom is looking for a switch to also top them, then why are they calling themselves a Dom?


I know dominants who enjoy being topped from time-to-time.  Keep in mind that being "topped" doesn't neccessarily mean the dominant is acting in a submissive way.  There is a huge difference between top and dominant.

quote:

Its simple...

Dom = Top
Sub = Bottom
Switch = Both


I respectfully disagree as to the "simplicity" of this.  I tend to think of these labels with a bit more granularity.  As follows:

Top = someone who likes doing sadistic things to people.
Dominant = someone who likes having control.

A dominant may be a top and vice versa, but this isn't necessarily the case.

Bottom = someone who like receiving sadistic play (possibly they are a masochist)
Sub = someone who likes giving up control
Slave = someone who likes giving up a lot of control

Like the top/dominant mixes, there are various combinations of bottom, sub, and slave.

Switch = possible combinations of many things (top, dominant, bottom, sub, slave)

To make things even more complex, you have kinksters who identify in a very specific ways (such as Daddy dominant and Mommy dominants, cross-dressers, adult babies, etc.).  Daddy and Mommy dominants, for example, aren't necessarily top, dominant, bottom, sub, slave, or switch, though they may be one or more of these.

I find that each person is so unique that one must ask about the dynamics they like.  Labels are useful as a starting place, buy they often don't tell much of the story.

Elan.

(in reply to MasterDragon1963)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Switches - 8/2/2008 7:55:15 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pettingdragons
i have been in the involved in BDsM for 20 years....i have never heard M/s referred to as Leather Folk. Could you please tell me where you are getting your reference?


As I understand it M/s refers to Master/slave and the terms themselves AS THEY RELATE TO THE LIFESTYLE, are terms for the Titles and Positions of Leather Folk. As Gay Men returned from the war and those that started the Leather Communities consider Master and slave Titles that are given not just words they call themselves I have always been instructed to assume M/s refers to Leather folk as that is the majority of it's origin.

Is it also true that TODAY it is simply another way of expressing a Power Exchange between a Dominant and a submissive if they so choose to call themselves such ... sure. However having spent some time as a Visitor and short term member of NLA Vegas (National Leather Association) When one says in a M/s relationship you will be asked exactly what makes you a Master and how you came about that title.

Personally I don't care one way or another, but I do know depending on where you go you can end up looking like quite the ass depending on how you present youself. D/s as a general rule denotes a Non Leather Power Exchange and M/s denotes a Leather Power Exchange. I don't have sitable links for you but I am sure if you Google Leather Folk or Leather Community you will eventually come across some article on the Differences between D/s and M/s.

I see it as being as Trivial as the difference between a sub and a slave debate, it is only important to the person using it so why argue it's meaning. However in this situation I was pointing out there are a Variety of Belief systems running around, to state that only ONE is acurate runs the Gambit of saying My Kink is Right and Yours is Wrong. I try to accept that my way isn't the One Twue Way.


quote:

ORIGINAL: pettingdragons
In my opinion if a Dominant bottomed he would be a switch and it would really ruin it for me. Of course a Dominant can be a Master or not. What does Leather Protocol have to do with it?


There is a LONG answer to this Please see the Last Quote as you made the point I was looking for I think. I believe that Switch refers to two seperate things in can mean Switch in Play or Switch in the Power Exchange. I believe you can be a Dominant Switch, or a submissive Switch, or just a Switch. I'll explain at the end.


quote:

ORIGINAL: pettingdragons
Now Steel, who is pushing their views, its just a quesiton and a statment on personal believes....as the OP question was asked and opinions are given...i mean i really dont agree with most people on this board, but then i still very miuch enjoy reading the different views. its facinanting how the mind works and how others percive things....i do have to say that this is the first time i have ever disagreed with a post you have made...LOL
 
 

Well I am not surprised we will all not agree from time to time. However I do wish to clearify I am not Objecting to his opinion, I am objecting to the idea that is the is ONLY opinion. That simply saying a Dom is a Top and a sub is a Botton to me is ludacris. Because I know people who I complately respect who make his comment false. The Idea that his belief is cut and dry this is this and that is that. Just screams My Kink is Right and Your Kink is Wrong. This is the ONLY reason I am objecting. Had he said "I believe that ..." or even "In my Opinion ..." I am sure I would be less Vocal.

 
quote:

ORIGINAL: pettingdragons
What qualifies you as a switch?
 i am a slave, and a switch (where sometimes there is or is not a power exchange) . they are each seperate for ME, but then each person has their own view on what the "titles" are.


Correct me if I am wrong please, but I get from this that you are a slave, and from time to time you engage in Top activities. I.e. you are both a slave and a Sadist. According to our frineds definition you do not exist you cannot be both. This is why I was so vocal to say that This is This and That is That and be done with it you seperate a LARGE portion of what BDSM can and does mean.

Did I explain this well enough?

Then again there is always the possibility that you and I just don't agree on this subject.

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to pettingdragons)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Switches - 8/2/2008 7:56:26 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Or basically what Elan just said.

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Switches - 8/2/2008 11:07:29 AM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline 		SteelofUtah,

--- Or basically what Elan just said.

Thank you.  I immensely enjoyed your posts on the topic.  Argh.  I wish I could correct the grammar errors in my posts (pluralization, extra prepositions, etc.), but alas, Collar Me won't let me.  My intended meaning gets through none-the-less.  Thanks again for your reply.

Elan.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Switches - 8/2/2008 11:18:05 AM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline 		MsStarlett,

quote:

What totally confuses me is the number of men who list themselves as Dominants who claim to have a desire to submit to me.  I currently have a "Dom" from the UK writing me a very lovely, ongoing scenario in which he is gagging while licking my bathroom tile clean... wishing to kiss my shoes and wear my collar.  Doesn't sound very "Domish" to me.  I'm not even sure I would call this guy a Switch.


Pardon my blunt vulgarity, but... have you looked at your own pictures lately?  Good Lord woman, every inch of you is a deliciously sexy treat.  Sure, a man may be dominant, but he isn't blind.  It would be hard for just about any man to resist you.  I'm just sayin'. :-)

Elan.

(in reply to MsStarlett)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Switches - 8/2/2008 1:03:03 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline 		Addendum to my post...

On the "top" side of the equation, I missed owner and master.  From this comes Owner/slave dynamics which tend to be quite different from those of Master/slave and Dominant/slave, and all the variations of s-types that may be on the "bottom".  On the "bottom" side of the equation, I missed pet.  I'll leave it for others to add comments about how pets differ and/or intersect with various s-types.  Ah, it's a colourful, not easily labeled, kinky world we live in. :-)

Elan.

< Message edited by ElanSubdued -- 8/2/2008 1:05:25 PM >

(in reply to ElanSubdued)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Switches - 8/2/2008 1:23:07 PM   
uninterested5


Posts: 55
Joined: 7/8/2008
Status: offline 		Holy shit, the cat's the out the bag and we're confronted with the fact that "dom" "sub" and "switch" all mean honey bunches of not a fucking thing. Who would have thought that a bunch of totally subjective terms with loose, hackeneyed definitions posted at random times on the internet by guys in halloween costumes might not come to a concensus? Realistically, call yourself whatever you want, call other people whatever you want, nobody's going to call you out on it because if they open their mouth you'll smell the bullshit on their breath.

THE RULE OF THUMB IS THAT THE "REAL" DOMS CAPITALIZE EVERYTHING BECAUSE THEY'RE SO IMPORTANT THEY WOULDN'T WANT YOU TO MISS A SINGLE WORD OF WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY.

(in reply to IvyMorgan)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Switches - 8/2/2008 2:12:56 PM   
MsStarlett


Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		Ahhh... Thank you Elan.  Sadly, my UK Dom must have read my comment.  He's not writing me anymore.  I never said I didn't ENJOY his notes... just that I didn't think he was very Dom-ish.

_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to ElanSubdued)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Switches - 8/2/2008 4:00:33 PM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline 		let me add my cluster fuck to this. I AM a switch in the root sense of the word.

I am slave to my Master, I am a Leather Sub to my Leather Sir (who is NOT my Master), I am a Mistress to my sissy boy, (who is neither my LSir or Master). And I was also for a very long time a bottom to a professional Top (again a totally different person to the three men mentioned above).

And to explain the nice situations above.

Master is my owner and boyfriend and the only person I am in a sexual relationship with, Leather Sir is and has been one of my best friend since I was about 14 (neither of us were into any of this then obviously), and My sissy boy is a very very good friend of mine. me and Master are 24/7, me and LSir perform together in the fetish shows here, and during Leather functions, and He is also a mentor of sorts to me and family of my heart if not blood (including the rest of his Leather family, his wife and girlfriend). My sissy boy is my 24/7 sub though we dont live together.

Makes for interesting dinner conversations for sure. And yes they all know about each other and are all happy with the situation. I just need a girl sub and Im all set

M/s iun reffering to Leather Folk, I call Leather Sir that because in our Leather scene he has not yet earned his Masters cover (aka title) So, unless one has earned the title it is disrespectful to reffer to them as Master. So he is SIR. I call Master  such because we are 24/7 (to put it in these words D/s) but in reference to him I am a slave as opposed to a sub in the fact I give him full control over my life. BUT 90% of the time M/s generally refers to the Leather folk if the said person in charge of the situation has EARNED the title Master. Did I fuck your definition up sufficiently Steel  love you guys!

< Message edited by Sunnyfey -- 8/2/2008 4:09:40 PM >

_____________________________

Resident Hell Cat



(in reply to SteelofUtah)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Switches - 8/2/2008 7:53:20 PM   
MsStarlett


Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		I'm waiting on Uninterested to just give up and post a link to whatever it is that needs approval.

_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to Sunnyfey)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Switches - 8/2/2008 7:55:55 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Feh. He's a mite too cranky to be totally UNinterested... 

Will check back later for his commentary, at least it keeps the thread going! 

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to MsStarlett)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Switches - 8/3/2008 7:15:33 AM   
MsStarlett


Posts: 1879
Joined: 12/23/2007
Status: offline 		Oh pooh!  I was hoping for a photo.  *shrug*  Life is full of little disappointments.

_____________________________

It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed,
the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning,
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

(in reply to LadyHibiscus)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Switches - 8/3/2008 9:56:43 AM   
ImpGrrl


Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDragon1963

So if a Dom is looking for a switch to also top them, then why are they calling themsleves a Dom?


Because topping/bottoming has nothing to do with d/s.

(in reply to MasterDragon1963)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Switches - 8/3/2008 9:59:21 AM   
ImpGrrl


Posts: 575
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDragon1963

Its simple....

Dom = Top
Sub = Bottom
Switch = Both

And if your gonna split hairs over what someone is in D/s mode, and what they turn into in M/s mode, or what they might become in B/d mode, thats juust another can of worms


Um...no.

Dom = one who has authority in the relationship.  They can be masochistic or sadistic or neither or both. 
Sub = one who grants authoirty in the relationship.  They can be masochistic or sadistic or neither or both. 
Switch = Can be one who is both d and s, or one who is masochistic and sadistic, or both. 


(in reply to MasterDragon1963)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Switches - 8/3/2008 10:38:58 AM   
MasterKalif


Posts: 648
Joined: 5/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MsStarlett

What totally confuses me is the number of men who list themselves as Dominants who claim to have a desire to submit to me.  I currently have a "Dom" from the UK writing me a very lovely, ongoing scenario in which he is gagging while licking my bathroom tile clean... wishing to kiss my shoes and wear my collar.  Doesn't sound very "Domish" to me.  I'm not even sure I would call this guy a Switch.


MsStarlett....just because someone calls themselves a "Dominant" it does not mean they are...specially when it is all online.

(in reply to MsStarlett)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Switches - 8/3/2008 10:41:11 AM   
MasterKalif


Posts: 648
Joined: 5/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterDragon1963

So if a Dom is looking for a switch to also top them, then why are they calling themsleves a Dom?


I totally agree...and I do not care if the community thinks of me as ignorant for thinking so.

(in reply to MasterDragon1963)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Switches - 8/3/2008 3:14:16 PM   
ElanSubdued


Posts: 1511
Status: offline 		MasterKalif,

quote:

MasterDragon1963:
So if a Dom is looking for a switch to also top them, then why are they calling themselves a Dom?

MasterKalif:
I totally agree... and I do not care if the community thinks of me as ignorant for thinking so.


It isn't a question of what the community thinks.  Rather, you are free to remain as ignorant as you wish.

(Sorry.  The target was just far too easy. :-)

Elan.

(in reply to MasterKalif)
Profile   Post #: 40
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