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RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/29/2008 6:16:46 PM   
katie978


Posts: 352
Joined: 7/21/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Aw Katie, thanks :)


I'm stealing your bit ^_^

Although, I prefer the snarkiness generally to the links, so you're not out of the job.

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RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/29/2008 6:20:02 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		The person is the gift. Fox and Angel are my gifts in life, and I am theirs. Their submission is how we interact, but it is not a gift from them to me. They didnt put great thought into how to give themselves to me. In both cases, when we met, it was just how we got along. I am the dominant personality, they are the submissive ones. Thats how we clicked. Thier collars were gifts, their love is a gift... but their submission is not.

DV


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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/29/2008 6:20:03 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		I can only speak in terms of slavery and being a slave - which is where my knowledge and experience lie:

The submission in a slave to a Man is reactionary because he is a catalyst to her  reactions which are slave in nature, and within those reactions i am compelled to submit because of his mastery and determination to enslave me. 

All in all, reactions to a catalyst are not gifts, they are welll -- reactions.  To me, if a woman is reacting in submission to a Man, and she has the arrogance to believe she is gifting him with herself because of her reactions to him -- to me, she has kinda missed the concept that should be at play with regard to the dynamic.  But all in all, i am a full believer that even in submissives it seems with the correct catalyst (the "right" dom who is capable of causing that submissive reaction in a woman) they react in submission -- and can instinctive reactions be gifts?  Nope, they are unconscious usually and very instinctive to the catalyst compelling them.  I personally think the concept of a gift is a concept of arrogance  if a woman feels she is gifting a Man with herself through her submission, and i know many may not like this but if a man sees it as the sub or hell even slave is gifting him -- he is way to concerned with her validating him on some level.

angel



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RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/29/2008 10:52:28 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		I don't buy it because, in our society, gifts are given with an expected return. In a relationship, this can quickly lead to manipulation or worse. It's just too loaded an example to get to the heart of the matter: having successful communication about what does and doesn't fulfill each person.

Master Fire


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RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/29/2008 10:58:58 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Gifts that come with ten pages of responsibilities and expectations attached are generally reffered to as a "bait and switch".
 
 Show me a sub who grants her submission without any of those, and I'll call it a genuine "gift"

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/29/2008 11:07:14 PM   
Tiggerr


Posts: 1
Joined: 7/24/2008
Status: offline 		Frankly I don't care if it's a gift or not. I do what I want because it makes my Dom happy. That to me is enough. Is it a gift to him? I dunno. I just know I'll enjoy it when I find it.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/30/2008 2:50:06 AM   
Vancouver_cinful


Posts: 1911
Joined: 2/3/2004
Status: offline 		Well, here's my take on it: Sometimes you welcome it, sometimes it pisses you off. It's neither a gift nor a curse...it's a personality trait, like being stubborn or curious. Both can get you in trouble and both can reap rewards. Life's like that. Go figure. :-D

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RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/30/2008 5:01:27 AM   
MasterAramis


Posts: 279
Joined: 7/29/2008
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		I think that the reason people call it a "gift" is because submission, by definition, has to be given. If it is taken, forced, coerced, then it is not submission. For example, were I captured by a ruthless dictator and in fear for my life, I'll bet I would obey him, would I respect him in my heart? No, I would fear and hate him. He would not have my loyalty, devotion, or submission; he would have surface obedience only until I could get away.

But, someone who earns my respect and devotion I submit to because I am drawn to follow Him.

So, in short, I think submission is given, and in that sense it is a gift. But I also believe Dominance is a gift, for I could not give submission unless someone gives me dominance in return, for they are intertwined as two sides of the same coin. How can I submit without something, someone to submit to?

Just the first ramblings of a slave this morning.. ;)

cheers,

anna, slave of Master Aramis Duval

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/30/2008 5:07:04 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Works for me. 

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/30/2008 5:26:24 AM   
happypervert


Posts: 2203
Joined: 5/11/2004
From: Scranton, PA
Status: offline 		Submission is part of one's nature, and a person does it because they find it rewarding and self-fulfilling. To call it a gift spins the motivation upside down by implying it is done just for the other person, and I find that deceitful so folks who buy into that concept I avoid like the plague.

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/30/2008 5:29:11 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: happypervert

Submission is part of one's nature, and a person does it because they find it rewarding and self-fulfilling. To call it a gift spins the motivation upside down by implying it is done just for the other person, and I find that deceitful so folks who buy into that concept I avoid like the plague.


Self enoblement seems pretty insecure-which is why I avoid people who call themselves any kind of "gift". If I wanted to have something around that puffed up-I'd get a blowfish.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/30/2008 5:35:25 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

I can only speak in terms of slavery and being a slave - which is where my knowledge and experience lie:

The submission in a slave to a Man is reactionary because he is a catalyst to her  reactions which are slave in nature, and within those reactions i am compelled to submit because of his mastery and determination to enslave me. 

All in all, reactions to a catalyst are not gifts, they are welll -- reactions.  To me, if a woman is reacting in submission to a Man, and she has the arrogance to believe she is gifting him with herself because of her reactions to him -- to me, she has kinda missed the concept that should be at play with regard to the dynamic.  But all in all, i am a full believer that even in submissives it seems with the correct catalyst (the "right" dom who is capable of causing that submissive reaction in a woman) they react in submission -- and can instinctive reactions be gifts?  Nope, they are unconscious usually and very instinctive to the catalyst compelling them.  I personally think the concept of a gift is a concept of arrogance  if a woman feels she is gifting a Man with herself through her submission, and i know many may not like this but if a man sees it as the sub or hell even slave is gifting him -- he is way to concerned with her validating him on some level.

angel




Amen. A guy who spends all of his time trying to please a slave-is a slave to a slave.

Which tends to place him fairly low in a hierachal pecking order.

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I'm not taking custom orders.

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/30/2008 5:41:59 AM   
SoulPiercer


Posts: 374
Joined: 5/27/2007
Status: offline 		"Submission is a gift" is a pretty cliche, and yes many a submissive, especially newer ones, swoon when it's whispered in their ear.

However: a gift is given with no expectation of getting anything in return. (A submissive has the expectation that a dominant will respect their limits and do no harm. Well .. not much harm anyway.)

A gift is given with the price tag removed, unless mama just didn't raise you right. (The very fact that one has to point out their submission is a gift, thus has value means they are attaching a "price" to said submission.)

And a gift is not taken back just because things didn't go your way or because something better caught your eye. (If a dominant does not respect your limits, causes you harm, or you simply found a hunkier dominant, you leave, thus taking back your "gift".)

Until a few days ago, my signature said: "If submission is a gift, I'll take the necktie instead. Thanks."

See .. long after my very first submissive gave me her "gift" then decided to leave me after a few years because her family wouldn't approve - I still have a rather nice collection of neckties.

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RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/30/2008 6:16:51 AM   
Dnomyar


Posts: 7933
Joined: 6/27/2005
Status: offline 		The only true gift giver is Santa Clause.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/30/2008 6:37:27 AM   
badlilthang


Posts: 357
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

~ Fast Reply ~
 
Submission is a curse, unless/until you give it to someone who you can trust understands its worth, and appreciates its value.


truer words has never been spoken. submission can indeed be a curse - around the wrong people...s..but such a blessing when it is right!!

And i personally do not think submission is a gift - it is what i am - naturally. i have a submissive nature - i like to please - and it gives my life meaning. Workwise i am in charge - i have to - my own boss..laughs..but to my One - i am His slave - not because i want to - but because i need to...if that makes sense. It is a natural dynamic between Uus - and i would be utterly confused if the roles were reverted...


< Message edited by badlilthang -- 7/30/2008 6:47:05 AM >

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RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/30/2008 6:49:08 AM   
badlilthang


Posts: 357
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

The only true gift giver is Santa Clause.


Not true!! He has a naughty list, and most of us submissives are on it..*L*...hence = no gifts - since he also has conditions attached..hehe..


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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/30/2008 7:08:15 AM   
OsideGirl


Posts: 14441
Joined: 7/1/2005
From: United States
Status: offline 		A gift is something you give expecting nothing in return. So, basically, you're saying that you'd give your submission to someone that doesn't give something in return. Do you honestly believe you'd give your submission to some guy that wasn't giving you his dominance?

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RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/30/2008 7:17:48 AM   
sambamanslilgirl


Posts: 10926
Joined: 2/5/2007
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

Gifts that come with ten pages of responsibilities and expectations attached are generally reffered to as a "bait and switch".
 
 Show me a sub who grants her submission without any of those, and I'll call it a genuine "gift"

i did for Daddy on Jan 16th, 2007 without any responsibilities and/or expectations

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RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/30/2008 7:19:36 AM   
opposingtwilight


Posts: 684
Joined: 6/13/2008
Status: offline 		That can't be true, though.

You gave him your submission which made him responsible for making decisions on your behalf. Therefore he is responsible for you in many ways. And somehow I doubt that you had NO expectations whatsoever. You expect him not to kill you at the very least.


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Subs/slaves submission a gift? - 7/30/2008 7:23:12 AM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Enough with the sky is falling shit. No one sane gets involved with a snuff artist.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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