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Checklist for Masters? - 11/16/2005 7:57:35 PM   
firestrikes


Posts: 12
Joined: 8/19/2005
From: Washington
Status: offline 		I am new to this site and to the lifestyle so I may be getting in over my head right off the bat here, but I do have a serious question for those of the masterful persuasion. I have been reading the thread about a master's self control and found very useful insights there. I agree that the characteristics Padriaq and others noted are traits that anyone might thoughtfully consider before entering into an intimate context with another human being. It made me wonder if there is a checklist for subs to present to masters for consideration on whether there is a good fit, philosophically, attitudinally, psychologically, etc. from a sub's point of view. I am aware of the checklists presented by masters to subs, and these provide useful cross-reference material for both parties, but they don't speak to the level of mastery in those critical areas of self control that a sub might want to assess a Dominant for. Again, I am new here... for all I know I'm committing a mortal sin in asking, but I'm an analytical person and would like some honest feedback from people on whether such a thing exists, and if so, how masters perceive its existence.
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RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/16/2005 8:12:49 PM   
daredevil865


Posts: 130
Joined: 11/9/2005
Status: offline 		firestrikes
I do not think you are committing a "mortal sin" in asking this or any other question. That is what these forms are susposed to be for, to exchange ideas and learn.

I do not know of any checklists available for a sub to assess a Dom...for Myself if I was presented with a checklist from a sub to assess Me I would find it quite funny. You state you are new to the site and the lifestyle My suggestion take your time, read the threads, do not jump quickly into anything, communicate ...communicate...communicate and listen to your gut.

DareDevil

_____________________________



DareDevil

A true Master exhibits honor, integrity, honesty, self discipline, personal responsibility and caring for his property.

If I had to explain it...you wouldn't understand

(in reply to firestrikes)
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RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/16/2005 8:50:27 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I think checklists work just as well no matter which side of the slash you are on. The point of the lists is not in the numbers and symbols...but in the communication and going over each point together.

(in reply to firestrikes)
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RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/16/2005 8:52:37 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		There are two things you should look for in a Dom

1. A dominant isn't a dominant if he/she can't dominate themself

2. A dominant shouldn't dish out what he/she can't take themself

Though it's okay for you to have other personal preferences, I suggest that you keep the first two in mind on you search.

Best of Luck

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to firestrikes)
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RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/16/2005 9:08:39 PM   
obis


Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: firestrikes
I am aware of the checklists presented by masters to subs, and these provide useful cross-reference material for both parties, but they don't speak to the level of mastery in those critical areas of self control that a sub might want to assess a Dominant for.


I think that's the critical part right there, that most of the qualities you want in a good dom are related to self-control, and unfortunately everyone is going to say they have great self-control even when they don't. It's easy for people on both sides to say ahead of time that they like spanking, hate nipple clamps, or whatever -- but nobody has a significant motivation to be dishonest on those issues, except to maybe say they enjoy something they don't to please the other. Trying to evaluate someone's self-control is tricky even when they don't have a flogger in their hand

(in reply to firestrikes)
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RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/16/2005 9:15:12 PM   
obis


Posts: 412
Joined: 9/9/2005
From: Austin, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet
2. A dominant shouldn't dish out what he/she can't take themself


Hey now, some of us are sadists, not masochists

Though that's actually a good question to ask of a dom -- how do they try out things they haven't done before? I know that pretty much everything I've ever done (in terms of pain or restraints) I have tried on myself before I ever approached someone else with it. I need to know how tight, rough, sharp, tiring, etc something feels before I can know how (and how long) to do it to another person.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
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RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/16/2005 10:14:46 PM   
OscarHargraves


Posts: 693
Joined: 8/9/2005
Status: offline 		I'm sure each Sub has a mental (if not a written) checklist of things they want or don't want in a Dom(me). The problem is that each Sub has a DIFFERENT checklist or has it in a different order than the other Subs do. What it comes down too is good communication and doing what's right for YOU. Yes you can get good ideas and add to or rearrange your personal list from the things you learn, but in the end the 'list' has to be those things that are important to you and not someone else. This site is a great place to get ideas and suggestions though so don't hesitate to ask questions and use this resource to your advantage.

_____________________________

Never drive faster than your guardian angel can fly ! !

(in reply to firestrikes)
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RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/16/2005 10:55:07 PM   
firestrikes


Posts: 12
Joined: 8/19/2005
From: Washington
Status: offline 		So, you would consider it funny if a sub presented you with a self-report questionnaire... can you tell me why it would be laughable to you?

I appreciate your (and LuckyAlbatross') emphasizing the need to communicate - honest, clear communication is the foundation for any relationship between two people, ideally. And that is why I am baffled at the absence of a checklist of this nature. It seems like such an instrument would help streamline the mutual screening that would take place when two people are sizing each other up for fit, style, chemistry, philosophical resonance and all the other eccentricities that flow into "attraction". When we can get more useful information up front to aid in decision-making, we end up wasting less of each other's time and energy, I'm thinking...

(in reply to daredevil865)
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RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/16/2005 11:04:24 PM   
amayos


Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline 		Once upon a time, many many misguided moons ago, Ilsa Strix gave me a checklist during our opening communications. I didn't like the laundry list feel of it at all; it stripped away the entire point of the journey, in my warped perspective. So it goes without saying I am quite sympathetic to your question regarding a submissive's assessment of a prospective dominant; I wanted such a "form" to send in reply after receiving hers.


(in reply to firestrikes)
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RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/17/2005 3:18:39 AM   
lovingmaster45


Posts: 261
Joined: 9/16/2004
Status: offline 		I do more than offer a checklist; I offer references. I always answer any and all questions about what I have to offer and put any prospect in touch with others I have either played with and/or have collared. I don't have any "secrets" or agendas so the truth is not dangerous to me.

I have had men contact one of my girls and ask to play only to have them disappear when I asked what they had to offer. Anyone surprised at this?

I have had "dom" males contact me and ask for help/guidance; yet fail to complete a single assignment that I gave them. They just disappear. My Head Bitch has said I need to offer classes for clueless males; but I told her they were so clueless that they would not recognize the need.

I acquired two very experienced Masters when I began my journey and have surrounded myself with Mentors since. I learn every day.

I think that most men on bdsm sites are simply looking for an easy lay; I doubt they are very successful.

There is certainly nothing easy about learning a sub better than they know themselves.

_____________________________

Master Jerry


(in reply to amayos)
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RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/17/2005 5:03:31 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obis
I need to know how tight, rough, sharp, tiring, etc something feels before I can know how (and how long) to do it to another person.

And for me, doing it to yourself tells you absolutely none of those things about doing it to me.

I don't get the whole "do it yourself first" when it comes to bdsm kinks.

(in reply to obis)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/17/2005 5:13:29 AM   
MasterRobert1


Posts: 225
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline 		Those checklists go in both directions. No, it's not out of line to go over the Doms checklist just like the Dom will go over yours. You need to evaluate the Dom as much as the Dom needs to evaluate you. Submissive mode shouldn't kick in until you know if there's a fit or not.

(in reply to firestrikes)
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RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/17/2005 5:28:01 AM   
Jacques1000


Posts: 273
Joined: 10/30/2005
Status: offline
do you give symposiums ? I know two guys who'd benefit from that lesson.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
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RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/17/2005 5:28:57 AM   
Jacques1000


Posts: 273
Joined: 10/30/2005
Status: offline
me neither...and besides..some of which are anatomically impossible anyway

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/17/2005 6:16:36 AM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterRobert1

Those checklists go in both directions. No, it's not out of line to go over the Doms checklist just like the Dom will go over yours. You need to evaluate the Dom as much as the Dom needs to evaluate you. Submissive mode shouldn't kick in until you know if there's a fit or not.


MasterRobert1, Thank You! .... the comon sence of that answer speaks volumes!

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingmaster45

I do more than offer a checklist; I offer references. I always answer any and all questions about what I have to offer and put any prospect in touch with others I have either played with and/or have collared. I don't have any "secrets" or agendas so the truth is not dangerous to me.

I have had men contact one of my girls and ask to play only to have them disappear when I asked what they had to offer. Anyone surprised at this?

I have had "dom" males contact me and ask for help/guidance; yet fail to complete a single assignment that I gave them. They just disappear. My Head Bitch has said I need to offer classes for clueless males; but I told her they were so clueless that they would not recognize the need.

I acquired two very experienced Masters when I began my journey and have surrounded myself with Mentors since. I learn every day.

I think that most men on bdsm sites are simply looking for an easy lay; I doubt they are very successful.

There is certainly nothing easy about learning a sub better than they know themselves.


LovingMaster45.... May I ask what you offer in the form of a reference? I'm asking only due to having been offered references in the past that came in the form of (cough) photos and or email contacts. I agree the clueless will remain so, and the guilble will be those that fall into the hands of those looking for the easy lay, as they are clueless in their own right.

Q, who's not Clueless.......

_____________________________

The problem with communication ... is the illusion that it has been accomplished. ~George Bernard Shaw

(in reply to MasterRobert1)
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RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/17/2005 6:19:30 AM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

do you give symposiums ? I know two guys who'd benefit from that lesson.


I could. As it says in my profile, Pet and I are always willing to help people find themselves in this BDSM Life Style and help educate to think before they strike.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

(in reply to Jacques1000)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/17/2005 6:20:40 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		lol...

I think bdsm checklists are incredibly useful for someone who has only begun to explore the scene and has yet to find the things that truely drive their need to dom or be dominated, or have control or give up control (and yes, I do see a difference between the two). The checklists freely available today are pretty comprehensive and can open up a person's thoughts to somethings they may never have considered. I find the best checklists allow for the person to indicate not just their interest in something, but also their level of 'understanding', although understanding can be conveyed when discussing each thing with a partner or another kinkminded friend.

As a top I have created my own checklists for subs unique to what interests me in wiiwd.

But a checklist to gauge a dominant's suitability as 'your Dom/Master/Mistress'? Hmmm...interesting concept. I'd wonder at it's reliablity, as in any communication, honesty is only as good as the intent behind it, and how do we gauge the honesty of someone who for all intents and purposes is a relative stranger.

I remember we did a thread sometime back in which submissives were asked to highlight any useful tools or ideas, mostly centered around 'keeping safe', that have helped them get a feel for someone. For example, someone suggested to always ask, especially if a dominant professes 'experience', what has gone wrong in scenes and what did they do to rectify it? Everyone at some stage will have an issue or problem occur in a scene, so it would seem unlikely someone who does state experience would not have a story or two of their own to tell. Also there is always that theory, ask a question you already know the answer too. You could always ask the same question in a number of different ways...its possible, if the answer varies, this person may be only saying what they think you want to hear each time, rather than having their own informed opinion on it... or are actually quite indecisive or indifferent and their ability to dominate succintly or successfully may be as changeable as their answers. Don't know how you could put any of these things into a checklist as such. If you do I'd be interested to see it ;)



_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


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(in reply to Jacques1000)
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RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/17/2005 8:01:35 AM   
firestrikes


Posts: 12
Joined: 8/19/2005
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jasmyn

But a checklist to gauge a dominant's suitability as 'your Dom/Master/Mistress'? Hmmm...interesting concept. I'd wonder at it's reliablity, as in any communication, honesty is only as good as the intent behind it, and how do we gauge the honesty of someone who for all intents and purposes is a relative stranger.


Yes, there is always this question of gauging honesty, in both directions, in a given exchange; but one has to start somewhere. I was lucky in that the checklist I received from my Master was so thorough I received education simply through reading, reflecting and responding to it.

After spending a fabulously transformative year with him, I am now reflecting outwards and wanting to serve other subs in their search for similar experiences to mine... I'm naturally curious about how to improve chances for other newbie subs who (like I was when I first began searching for a Dominant) have no clue what they are doing when they first start exploring this lifestyle. I have fairly decent assessment and evaluation skills as I am trained as a marriage and family therapist, so I had an advantage in having these tools for screening an appropriate match for myself. I can imagine what kinds of trouble and drama the clueless can create for themselves and for the Dominants they manage to attract. So I can only assume that a checklist for Masters would, in theory, be a helpful tool if approached from the proper angle. And if a Master is self-aware enough to consider this thoroughly, s/he would find that the helpfulness would go in both directions - anything that educates and adds value to the sub gene pool is going to enhance the Masters' lives, in a global sense. Aren't we all interested in human consciousness evolution? Doesn't that serve all of us, kinky or vanilla?

The detailed suggestions you give in your post are very helpful and thought-inducing. If I come up with a prototype for this checklist I will post it for feedback and fine-tuning. Thanks very much for your insights...

(in reply to Jasmyn)
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RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/17/2005 8:15:40 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: firestrikes
The detailed suggestions you give in your post are very helpful and thought-inducing. If I come up with a prototype for this checklist I will post it for feedback and fine-tuning. Thanks very much for your insights...

Why isn't the checklist you were given useful for the other side of the slash? I haven't seen any checklists that couldn't be turned around easily with a few edits.

(in reply to firestrikes)
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RE: Checklist for Masters? - 11/17/2005 8:36:51 AM   
MrThorns


Posts: 919
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: firestrikes

So, you would consider it funny if a sub presented you with a self-report questionnaire... can you tell me why it would be laughable to you?



Actually...yes. I would probably get a good chuckle out of it. The reason is that if someone wants to know something about me, they should talk with me, spend some time getting to know me and not be in a rush to get things going. Observe behaviors...watch for flags...look for inconsistencies, etc.

Questionaires remind me of baseball cards. Sure, I see the player and can account for every Home run, RBI, and error they have ever made in their long and illustrious career... but I'll be damned if I know anything about the kind of person Johnny Bench was.

I think it's wise to have an idea about what you want to know about prospective partners, so perhaps a checklist for yourself is a good idea as a way to keep your thoughts organized.

Questionaires create a false sense of security, are cold, sterile, and teach you little about the person you are wanting to know.. Communication and observation will be the keys to success.

~Thorns

_____________________________

~"Do you know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I beat ya with when ya don't follow my command."

"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

(in reply to firestrikes)
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