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Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 5:59:42 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline 		Sen. Obama unveiled his plan to conserve on foreign oil, and to save us from having to drill for new oil.  I would present his words in text, but it is much more convincing coming from him. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzZNP4tTfV0 

Another of his ideas to stimulate the economy and contain the high prices on gasoline, is a "win-fall" tax on "excessive" profits of oil companies, which will fund a $1000 tax credit for struggling families.  Sure Exxon has made record profits, but when did it become the policy of this government to penalize success?  God bless Senator Obama Hood, he is going to rob from the rich and give to the poor, who in turn will be paying higher prices for that gasoline, because the cost of the new taxes will be passed down.

So, let's all do our part, inflate your tires and get regular tune-ups, so we can lower our dependancy on oil, and save just as much money as any new drilling would offer.  I am glad he is so in touch with the issues that he was able to solve the gas crisis without breaking a sweat.

So what do you think?

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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 6:18:10 PM   
Raechard


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From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		I think you should increase taxes for gas guzzlers thus force people to conserve fuel and raise taxes at the same time. People that need such vehicles for commercial reasons should be given tax breaks.
Renewable energy sources should be utilised and public transport vehicles swapped to fuel cell ones.

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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 6:25:36 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

I think you should increase taxes for gas guzzlers thus force people to conserve fuel and raise taxes at the same time. People that need such vehicles for commercial reasons should be given tax breaks.
Renewable energy sources should be utilised and public transport vehicles swapped to fuel cell ones.


What about those lower income folks that can't afford a new car, so are still driving the '83 Delta 88?

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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 6:31:16 PM   
Raechard


Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Bus

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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 6:35:33 PM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

So what do you think?



That the current gas price situation wasn't caused by inefficient driving, and that a company posting record setting profits and lobbying for even greater subsidies from the taxpayers because said profits failed to 'meet expectations', is to 'success', as Jack the Ripper was to first dates.

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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 6:44:15 PM   
cyberdude611


Posts: 2596
Joined: 5/7/2006
Status: offline 		It has always been the policy of the left-wing to penalize success. Capitalism, allowing people to control their own destiny, and make their own money comes into conflict with the liberal ideas of economic equality. They have been pushing that flawed system for over 150 years now. Economic equality is impractical and impossible in the current economic system of this planet....not just this country. And that is why communist countries and socialist countries fail.

There will always be a janitor, a CEO, and a big difference in between. That's how civilization has worked for 5,000+ years and how it will continue to work for centuries to come.

What this amounts to though I think is buying votes. "I promise to hand out free money to the poor and people who made bad investment decisions if they vote for me." That's what Obama is really saying here....

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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 6:47:12 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Bus


That is an option if one lives in an area where there is mass transportation.

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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 7:06:15 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alumbrado

quote:

So what do you think?



That the current gas price situation wasn't caused by inefficient driving, and that a company posting record setting profits and lobbying for even greater subsidies from the taxpayers because said profits failed to 'meet expectations', is to 'success', as Jack the Ripper was to first dates.


I would agree that subsidizing these companies is part of the "problem".  Some of those profits can be attributed to the company itself increasing it's efficiency in the production of the end products.  Oh and let's not forget that some of those profits come from sources other than gasoline.  Nobody likes to mention that those profits are also distributed to share holders, over the last 5 years Exxon has distributed nearly $118 Billion to shareholders, or last year alone $36 Billion.  Shares that anybody is capable of buying.

I know it is fashionable to bash American "Big Oil", but consider the alternative.

Besides, Obama Hood has already solved the problem of supply and demand, simply inflate your tires and get a tune up.

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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 7:09:06 PM   
Raechard


Posts: 3513
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Thadius you keep giving me problems, we want solutions I cry.

Since when has any law been undiscriminating to all sections of a community? It's sad but true some will be worse off as is always the case. The current situation is unsustainable and unnecessary to a large degree. Maybe we should be forcing manufacturers to produce cars that are more economical with fuel or restrict sales of certain types of cars to those that really need them?

It all depends if you want to get from A - B or if the journey from A - B is what counts.

I've just watched Panorama on the BBC this week talk about a man that drives a spots car everywhere when the limits is 30mph and most of the time he is idling in traffic. I can afford a sports car but I've never needed one because I don't tend to make silly choices that I know are going to work out being expensive, I should feel sorry for this person why? Society should reward those that make choices to benefit the whole of society and not just themselves.

In contrast the Panorama programme also showed a man that left his beemer at home and drove to London in an electric car, he gets reduced parking fees, no road tax and no congestion charge saving him £9000 a year he said. Well done that man that has realised how to save a hell of a lot of money on a drive that is routine anyway and nothing special.

< Message edited by Raechard -- 8/1/2008 7:18:15 PM >

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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 7:10:05 PM   
Sanity


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Well, yeah, and assuming that the neighborhood is conducive to the elderly and other vulnerable people using public transportation (meaning if the crime rate isn't too high).

But it's often the case that what you have is public transportation running especially in dense, high crime areas.  In more rural areas where there isn't as much crime and the elderly etc.can feel safer on public transportation there aren't enough people to make public transportation feasible.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Bus


That is an option if one lives in an area where there is mass transportation.


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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 7:16:24 PM   
Raechard


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From: S.E. London U.K.
Status: offline 		Funny you mention the inadequacy of public transport but who is complaining about that to the Government and demanding they improve the system?
Even in London you can’t get a Bus everywhere and I have a car but it isn’t big and expensive to run, the person you mention could easily trade down if they wanted to anyway.

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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 7:31:57 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Or, I suppose we could go with the McCain/Exxon plan (since they bought him out recently) Drill, drill, DRILL!!! and in 10 to 17 years, after the coasts have been trashed, and communities that depended on tourisim have died out (because no wants to go to the beach anymore because it's covered in sludge) and the coastal eco systems are extinct, red blooms and dead zones off every fucking coast.... we'll save maybe $0.04 a gallon.

Oh, but we'll be SAVED! Saved by the 57 new nuclear plants scattered across the country, each producing all that electricity, and Nevada's underground storage areas will be choked with the radioactive waste... (but don't worry, none of it wil leak into the water table, they promise) and the cross-country rail shipments of the waste are perfectly safe.
 
Oh, but we'll be SAVED! By all the "clean coal" plants that will be springing up like flowers across the nation. Yes, wonderfully clean coal plants that will capture all those carbon emissions (somehow) and keep us all toasty and warm through the winter... huddling close to stave off the pneumonia and brown lung we're all getting from the smoke.

Oh, but we'll be SAVED! Saved by private industry inventing a super battery that will power our vehicles. A super battery, that, were it possible, it would have already existed, considering the huge profits in offering a viable alternative to gas powered cars. But, they put aside that research, because McCain offered a big cash prize... (which he still has to find viable funding for... not just some vauge statement about cutting pork in his yet to be determined budget.)

Oh sure, there will continue to be token efforts with wind and solar... (gotta do a little of that to keep those eco nuts who say the ice caps are melting happy) but the addiction to fossil fules will be very, very safe under McCain. You can count on that. After all, he's been paid for.

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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 7:44:08 PM   
Thadius


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Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Funny you mention the inadequacy of public transport but who is complaining about that to the Government and demanding they improve the system?
Even in London you can’t get a Bus everywhere and I have a car but it isn’t big and expensive to run, the person you mention could easily trade down if they wanted to anyway.


There is no way it would be financially feasable for a mass transit system to be put into place where I live, for one thing there isn't a mass of anything except open space. 

Your original suggestion about taxing gas guzzlers though, still doesn't address the issue of folks that can't afford to buy a new car, or even a more efficient vehicle.  They would be stuck paying the tax simply because of circumstance.  There isn't very far you can trade down from an older vehicle.  It's not like you can trade in a '78 Ford LTD for a Geo Metro... well maybe, but then space(some folks have families they need to transport) and safety becomes an issue

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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 8:09:00 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

Or, I suppose we could go with the McCain/Exxon plan (since they bought him out recently) Drill, drill, DRILL!!! and in 10 to 17 years, after the coasts have been trashed, and communities that depended on tourisim have died out (because no wants to go to the beach anymore because it's covered in sludge) and the coastal eco systems are extinct, red blooms and dead zones off every fucking coast.... we'll save maybe $0.04 a gallon.

Oh, but we'll be SAVED! Saved by the 57 new nuclear plants scattered across the country, each producing all that electricity, and Nevada's underground storage areas will be choked with the radioactive waste... (but don't worry, none of it wil leak into the water table, they promise) and the cross-country rail shipments of the waste are perfectly safe.
 
Oh, but we'll be SAVED! By all the "clean coal" plants that will be springing up like flowers across the nation. Yes, wonderfully clean coal plants that will capture all those carbon emissions (somehow) and keep us all toasty and warm through the winter... huddling close to stave off the pneumonia and brown lung we're all getting from the smoke.

Oh, but we'll be SAVED! Saved by private industry inventing a super battery that will power our vehicles. A super battery, that, were it possible, it would have already existed, considering the huge profits in offering a viable alternative to gas powered cars. But, they put aside that research, because McCain offered a big cash prize... (which he still has to find viable funding for... not just some vauge statement about cutting pork in his yet to be determined budget.)

Oh sure, there will continue to be token efforts with wind and solar... (gotta do a little of that to keep those eco nuts who say the ice caps are melting happy) but the addiction to fossil fules will be very, very safe under McCain. You can count on that. After all, he's been paid for.


Very nice speech.  First question, you say that Exxon has bought out McCain, please provide proof of that one.  I get it you are against drilling offshore, can you provide proof that in 17 years those claims of yours about dead ecosystems will come to be reality?  I am not sure if you are aware of the drilling that is going to be going on whether we allow it or not, do a search for China side drilling 90 miles off of Florida.

So what other solutions has Obama suggested for bringing down the cost?  I mean besides inflating tires and tuneups?

It looks like we are fucked then, you are against nuclear, clean coal, researching alternative fuels, more refineries and drilling. 


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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 8:12:06 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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In the United States there are unimaginably vast areas that will never be able to support public transportation though. And if we were to impose some kind of Stalinist measures to herd people like cattle into the big cities we'd be like too many rats in a cage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raechard

Funny you mention the inadequacy of public transport but who is complaining about that to the Government and demanding they improve the system?
Even in London you can’t get a Bus everywhere and I have a car but it isn’t big and expensive to run, the person you mention could easily trade down if they wanted to anyway.


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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 8:18:33 PM   
servantforuse


Posts: 6363
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Status: offline 		I put air in my tires yesterday. The price of gas didn't come down at all ???Do I have to get a special guage???

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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 9:11:14 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
OBAMA REVERSES COURSE

quote:

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. (AP) - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Friday he would be willing to support limited additional offshore oil drilling if that's what it takes to enact a comprehensive policy to foster fuel-efficient autos and develop alternate energy sources.

Shifting from his previous opposition to expanded offshore drilling, the Illinois senator told a Florida newspaper he could get behind a compromise with Republicans and oil companies to prevent gridlock over energy.

Republican rival John McCain, who earlier dropped his opposition to offshore drilling, has been criticizing Obama on the stump and in broadcast ads for clinging to his opposition as gasoline prices topped $4 a gallon. Polls indicate these attacks have helped McCain gain ground on Obama.

"My interest is in making sure we've got the kind of comprehensive energy policy that can bring down gas prices," Obama said in an interview with The Palm Beach Post.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080801/D929PVL00.html


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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 9:14:17 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
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From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Sanity, they said on CNN (Anderson Cooper) that Obama has now changed his mind and wants to drill.

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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 9:15:35 PM   
DomKen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: cyberdude611

Capitalism, allowing people to control their own destiny

And the Santayanna lived in vain award goes to...
cyberdude611!


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RE: Obama unveils his plan on energy... - 8/1/2008 9:25:04 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


Posts: 1672
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quote:

Bus.


There's a major problem to your "solution" Raechard - not every city has anything like a Functional mass transit system.  Many states here in the central portion of the country have practically Nothing even remotely resembling effective mass transit.  There are few busses, and those only on a limited number of routes.  There are no commuter trains.  There are no subways.
 
What might work great for New York or Boston or Baltimore of Philli is utterly USELESS here in Oklahoma or Texas or Arkansas or Kansas or New Mexico... .or practically anywhere Other than the East Coast.

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