RE: SURPRISE !!!!!

RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (Full Version)

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themischievous1 -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/18/2005 1:48:30 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SelectiveService He fit with me so well. i am not a top or a switch but loved and followed him so unconditionally, i was willing to meet whatever needs he had as a bottom. the raw seek profile just turned me off. Am i wrong to think he would have talked to me aboout his needs or lack thereof? No, you're certainly not wrong. He should have talked with you. It's the dishonesty that is disheartening. You trusted him, SS. His also being a bottom is just details in the end, if you really love him, but the fact that he wasn't comfortable being honest about his deepest feelings is the far more crushing blow. You need some time to digest all of this, I think, in my opinion. Let yourself take that time. Perhaps you'll be able to forgive him for this deception down the road and trust again, though I imagine that going down that road wouldn't be at all easy for either of you. I could more than understand if you did forgive him though - unconditional love and devotion means exactly that. I'm keeping positive thoughts for you, SS. Please hang in there. It will all eventually work out okay. Just take some alone time to meditate and be open to whatever feels right in the days ahead. mischie

SelectiveService -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/18/2005 3:08:06 AM)
All the responses have been extremely helpful as well as narrowing down exactly how this has made me feel - very hurt that this ws something about himself he couldn't share with me and because he couldn't, it came between us.

Jasmyn -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/18/2005 5:00:12 AM)
How long had you know him?

windchymes -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/18/2005 5:27:35 AM)
My ex-husband was cheap and hated buying other people gifts. (Of course, he was very generous with his own gifts to himself, but that's another story). So many times, he'd remember my birthday at the last minute, stop at the drug store on the way home and grab a bottle of perfume off the clearance shelf.....or buy some wilted flowers from a roadside stand. Never jewelry, decent flowers, lingerie. or something I'd hinted at wanting....and as soon as he'd hand it to me, he'd defensively say, "Now, it's supposed to be the thought that counts!" My reply to that, after several years, was that there is supposed to actually BE some thought involved before you can fall back on that excuse. Sort of along this line, we have to be careful how we define the term "Unconditional Love". I think it was originally meant to mean loving someone in spite of rough times, an illness, a momentary lapse in common sense when they're truly contrite, a loss of job/money, or even doing some bad as a reaction to another bad event going on in their life, etc. I don't think it was meant to mean sticking around while someone hurts you with their own selfishness, sneaks around behind your back, is dishonest with bad intent, is just plain nasty.....it doesn't mean be a doormat and take abuse or neglect, and put up with ANYTHING. Unconditional love in the right context is a beautiful thing, but it shouldn't be used as a reason or excuse for staying in a relationship. I suspect that his submale ad was only the tip of a bigger iceberg. You only found this one ad. What else had he been doing or could he potentially do online or even in real life that would hurt you like this did? I think you did the right thing. chymes

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/18/2005 5:35:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mylee unconditional love Unconditional love is completely different from unconditional relationships. My post was regarding relationships.

plantlady64 -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/18/2005 5:41:52 AM)
Hello There, I agree with what all have said here. Unconditional love is hard to really have with someone who can't trust you with the truth. Integrity means more to me than my Masters life choices. If my Master does not speak to me about some part of his life tha brings him pleasure I would feel cut off. I get the point lots of sub males are not attractive as more dominant men are to sub/slave women. I am a sub and will only top someone once in my training period of the first year. It took a long time to find a man with the right personality that I could top him and still find him sexy enough to enjoy it at all. I'm not saying overall sub men are not sexy. I'm saying as I am a sub, it isn't that hot for me. I'm sure the Dommes here being they enjoy the relationship leadership role feel very differently than I do. Currently there are only 2 switches I know that I play with. I can see why he hid it from you, but in seeing the reasoning behind it, I don't feel you Master has his act together at this point enough to be controling someone elses life, when he can't control his own. I agree a breach of trust is the worst kind of hurt that can happen to a relationship as well. One question I'd have is if He'd come to you before he started subbing and told you he wanted to fill this need elsewhere, what would you have said? If He'd have wanted to be intercourse monogamous and sub to others would you have considered staying? My Master has said "If I decide to top someone for the lesson of it I must let him remove my collar, I may wear an article of clothing with our family crest, but nothing around my neck." He also said "the day I choose to top someone I can't play as a submissive that day at all." With my Master I would stay if he wanted to sub to a friend or something, or wanted me to top him. I want him to follow his desires to fulfillment with or without me as I like him to be free. We have an open relationship where we play with others, but only if we'd discussed it. If he felt like he had to hide someone or something from me I would always wonder what he was hiding from me. I say only you can decide if this is a recoverable offense or a deal breaker. I wish you find great peace in the decisions you make for yourself. Sincerely, sub suzanne

candystripper -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/18/2005 5:46:43 AM)
quote: How should one react when she finds her Master has an active seeking profile as a submale? i had always suspected him a switch and was warming up to such nicely but to find he openly considers himself a submale totally blew me away. i gave him the opportunity to provide a plausible explanation (as if there is one) and did so by not being confrontational and addressing the found profile via email. He declined to explain therefore i invoked my right of self release on the grounds of deception. Any thoughts or insights? SelectiveService i am terribly sorry this happend to you. It always hurts to be betrayed, and to be lied to. i can tell you i received a considerable number of emails from male subbies, asking to Dom me or asking me to Domme them. i think such men get desparate for a D/s relationship and decieve a female subbie into thinking they are a Dom so that they can hopefully persuade her to at least switch. i think this is highly manipulative behavior. You did well to return your collar. Again, you have my sympathy. i doubt there's anything you could have done differently; but try to remember, not everyone on CM is like that man. candystripper

candystripper -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/18/2005 5:50:45 AM)
quote: If he been seeking as a switch i may have been more But it was as a submale. Now my next question is what do i do with the profile i have here on collarme.com as his property? SelectiveService If you like your nick; just change the profile -- and if he had the password, remember to change that as well. If you want a new nick, just deactivate the one you have and start over. i'm sure there are generous Doms and Masters here who would help you choose a new nick, if you like. candystripper

candystripper -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/18/2005 5:56:58 AM)
quote: With all due respect FTopinMichigan, I sure am having difficulty understanding all of the "life is so tough, and most women won't want me if I say I like to top sometimes and bottome other times..." excuses. The lies are unacceptable because the other party gets hurt in the end, and how is being narcissistic and inconsiderate of other human beings okay as long as one person's needs are met? I know you aren't saying it's okay to lie, but I'm not even understanding how it's okay with you that some people who approach you for a relationship already admitting "I'm lying to other people, but you are soooooooo F'ing special, I had to lie to get to you. I think selective service did the right thing, and I'm angry at her Dom/Sub for her. BlkTallFullFigM You have said it so eloquently; i had soft-pedaled it. That's not right. Regardless of the fears or insecurities of her Dom his lies were a betrayal. Why would anyone accept a Dom so weak he lied about his sexuality and manipulated a female subbie into a relationship, complete with collar, but still never told her about his sub desires? candystripper

justatoy2 -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/18/2005 6:36:43 AM)
although i understand betrayal can be a difficult thing to forgive, it can be very hard for a Dom to admit to his submissive that he is indeed submissive himself. Or has submissive tendencies. But i am wondering...if its just that he was seeking, and hadn't acted on anything, there is hope to save the relationship if you both wanted to. It would take forgiving on your part, and opening up on his part. If he isn't even willing to discuss it, then there is little you can do. Im sorry that this happened, and its even worse that he doesn't feel he can talk to you about it even after you found out. Can a betrayal be forgivin..yes i feel it can, and both parties can work to get past it. It takes alot of work and alot of communication, since he has shut the door on that...then you probably did the right thing.

RiotGirl -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/18/2005 6:58:42 AM)
unconditional love isnt all its cracked up to be.

slavejali -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/18/2005 2:08:37 PM)
quote: so weak he lied about his sexuality and manipulated a female subbie into a relationship, complete with collar, but still never told her about his sub desires? i totally agree candy - its so not fair on the other person not to reveal things like that at the beginning of the relationship..before there is emotional attachment..before there is commitment...to allow the person the freedom to choose whether or not this is gonna work for them... the intimacies we share in relationship, including our sexuality are important basic factors of any relationship...to lead someone to believe something but carry a secret package into the relationship to be revealed at some later date..is just plain...fucked up..how can they expect the relationship to work..and why would they want to hurt someone so much? or are they that stupid to think....oh they will love me enough once ive manipulated them into the relationship to not care?

Vancouver_cinful -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/18/2005 10:03:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: windchymes Sort of along this line, we have to be careful how we define the term "Unconditional Love". I agree...Unconditional love is one thing, and having someone in your life is another. Unconditional love doesn't mean letting someone stay in your life...It means you love them...period. I love many people I will not allow into my life...for many reasons. Alcoholism, dishonesty, etc. Cin

wipmebeetme100 -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/19/2005 2:53:37 AM)
quote: The lies are unacceptable because the other party gets hurt in the end, and how is being narcissistic and inconsiderate of other human beings okay as long as one person's needs are met? I know you aren't saying it's okay to lie, but I'm not even understanding how it's okay with you that some people who approach you for a relationship already admitting "I'm lying to other people, but you are soooooooo F'ing special, I had to lie to get to you. I don't see where you feel that there are "lies". I just don't see it...as a matter of fact i don't believe he ever exercised his right to respond. Is his silence a lie? Upon entering into a TPE relationship with Master, if he decided to have an ad looking for a "goat".....so be it. The most i will do is practice my Baaaahhhhss, in the hopes i can communicate with his new found friend. smiles, cathy

MstrHellsFury -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/19/2005 6:35:17 AM)
not wanting to get into the word play of Master/Dom...I see you refer to yours as Master...and this being all about opinion and not a dear abbey column...I guess it's on me to ruffle a few feathers here...he's your Master...ok that's a given starting point...you also have slave as your position to him...ok so that's another point...you say you've always suspected him of being a switch???? now my confusion sets in because I can't for the life of me understand how you could be a slave to someone... and not know all there is to know about him before your submission to him...to suspect but not to ask??? I'll step away from that issue for a moment...but still connect the dots somehow...you were warming nicely to the idea he had bottom tendencies...but you become so outraged when the reality of it smacks you between the eyes...you self release yourself...why...because you feel decieved???...sorry but where is the deception... I...being one considered a Master to thoses in service to me...have only this remaining comment...then I'll sit back and await the torrent of eyerolls and hurmpps...but as that one who is Head of the family...leader of the pack...dispencer of whisdom...the big cheese...I don't think or even feel I owe an explaination for each and every action I take...where is leadership if there is constent consultion on my every thought and action??? if you had all the indicators...what was the shock that sent you running for the hills... Fury

SelectiveService -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/19/2005 8:53:16 AM)
Goodness...you have provided much to munch on. To me there is a vast difference between a Master who occasional enjoys bottoming (switch) and a Master who considers himself a submissive...a switch is a switch for the duration of the scene...a submissive desires more depth because it is more of a sexuality preference. Perhaps semantics and perhaps there are those who do not see them as different but i do. When potentially there is a third person in the mix who actually may be influencing the actions my Master has with me...i see this as a conflict. The deception is the relationship was based on monogamy and there had been no prior discussion of bringing anyone into the relationship ... let alone a Mistress for him. i guess the monogamy was for me and that was my fault not to have this clarified but why should i have? Sure Masters don't always tell their property everything and i have actually been in relationships where the Master has had others...many others. As a matter of fact, sometimes i helped pick out the girls. However, it was always discussed upfront and i was never in the dark. Secondly, very early on we had a conversation about Doms/Masters "dropping the other shoe" (potential deal breakers) after he's reeled in his potential girl. i was assured there was no other shoe to be dropped. You inquired as to where is the leadership if one is constantly accounting for his every thought or action? No one expects accountability for every single little detail and to equate a major omission such as what i speak of in the beginning of a relationship (a relationship which may have never developed had i known)...is mixing apples and oranges. quote: ORIGINAL: MstrHellsFury not wanting to get into the word play of Master/Dom...I see you refer to yours as Master...and this being all about opinion and not a dear abbey column...I guess it's on me to ruffle a few feathers here...he's your Master...ok that's a given starting point...you also have slave as your position to him...ok so that's another point...you say you've always suspected him of being a switch???? now my confusion sets in because I can't for the life of me understand how you could be a slave to someone... and not know all there is to know about him before your submission to him...to suspect but not to ask??? I'll step away from that issue for a moment...but still connect the dots somehow...you were warming nicely to the idea he had bottom tendencies...but you become so outraged when the reality of it smacks you between the eyes...you self release yourself...why...because you feel decieved???...sorry but where is the deception... I...being one considered a Master to thoses in service to me...have only this remaining comment...then I'll sit back and await the torrent of eyerolls and hurmpps...but as that one who is Head of the family...leader of the pack...dispencer of whisdom...the big cheese...I don't think or even feel I owe an explaination for each and every action I take...where is leadership if there is constent consultion on my every thought and action??? if you had all the indicators...what was the shock that sent you running for the hills... Fury

LadyHibiscus -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/19/2005 9:44:15 AM)
Yes, silence IS a lie. It's a lie of omission, and that is often the worst kind. If a person is talking to me, and has someone else they are committed to, but never mentions that other person, are they lying? Yes, they are. If a person has a secondary interest that takes up their energy, and they do not mention it to their primary, are they lying? Yes, they are. We make our daily decisions based on the information we have in front of us, the actions of the past, and the conclusions based on those things. Call it a subconscious scientific method. If there is some kind of black box we don't know about, not only does it throw all of our decisions off, it makes us question our ability to make good decisions at all. Ms Francine

SelectiveService -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/19/2005 1:33:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Yes, silence IS a lie. It's a lie of omission, and that is often the worst kind. If a person is talking to me, and has someone else they are committed to, but never mentions that other person, are they lying? Yes, they are. If a person has a secondary interest that takes up their energy, and they do not mention it to their primary, are they lying? Yes, they are. We make our daily decisions based on the information we have in front of us, the actions of the past, and the conclusions based on those things. Call it a subconscious scientific method. If there is some kind of black box we don't know about, not only does it throw all of our decisions off, it makes us question our ability to make good decisions at all. Ms Francine Your insight is right on target. Perhaps your words will inspire others pause to consider what they disclose, what they don't and the consequences of their action (or lack there of).

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/19/2005 1:37:26 PM)
quote: I don't see where you feel that there are "lies". I just don't see it...as a matter of fact i don't believe he ever exercised his right to respond. Is his silence a lie? I guess I'll point out where I feel there are lies, not that you need to agree with me quote: she finds her Master has an active seeking profile as a submale This was real life. Upfront we both said we sought and agreed to monogamy. It is my code of honor that if I tell a partner one thing, and said partner enters into a relationship based on that very important trait needed in order for us to have a symbiotic relationship, that partner should have a reasonable expectation, I am just what I said I am. Now the partner discovers I'm not the person I said but am even going as far as attempting to cheat behind his back representing myself as the exact opposite... To me those are lies, to you, possibly flexible truths that can be bent to suit one's needs? As for master excercising his right not to answer, those are called lies of omission, and pretty useless once one has already been caught. quote: Upon entering into a TPE relationship with Master, if he decided to have an ad looking for a "goat".....so be it. The most i will do is practice my Baaaahhhhss, in the hopes i can communicate with his new found friend. I really like your commitment to TPE relationships, but I bet you wouldn't enter into said relationship if master wasn't a master, and wonder if you'd stay if he really did fuck goats.. Would you stay in your TPE if you discovered master was married, had 20 children, and needs to be away from you 75% of the time with his other commitment?. These are rhetorical questions, as I really don't care what you do with your life, but I require basic honorable behavior to be followed when relating to me.. M

SelectiveService -> RE: SURPRISE !!!!! (11/19/2005 2:00:46 PM)
quote: Okay, i saw it in my email and asked Master what his thoughts were. They were this. Sometimes a Dom finds a sub and they click well, but the Dom cant submit to his submissive because that would throw everything off balance, so therefore he continues his Dominant side with the submissive he is with. He continues on searching for some one to fullfill the sub side of him. As to why her Master doesnt explain : because there is no need for her to be snooping around as long as her needs are met. No need to second guess her Master. "she's a sub, stop being so uptight" (translated by me) Because its non of her business and he doesnt have to explain himself. You've no right to ask, no place to ask. What you could of done was to ask "Respectfully requested to speak about it" Since you were denied and maybe because of how you approached it, you shut up. (not that i'm telling you to shut up, but just in general there are times when it is appropriate for a sub/slave to shut their yap) Well, i wasn't snooping. Snooping would be looking in his wallet, reading his email or going through his briefcase, etc. I wasn't TRYING to catch him at anything because I didn't know. I was reading collarme.com profiles in general to pass time, not allow myself to stew, and not over react to being sorta stood up earlier that evening. Hence the title of the thread being SURPRISE. As for the approach, i did this in non confrontational ways as so to open the door for him to give a plausible response. I was willing to hear what he had to say - He declined to say anything. As a matter of fact, the only eventual response he has had was i had no right to release myself. So ask you Master this...are slaves expected to suck it up when their Masters exhibits a potential lack of integrity? i am who and what i am because greater powers inspire me. However, in return, i expect such powers to be honest, forthright and already have his sexuality in check.

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