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RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/3/2008 2:49:14 PM

christine1

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okay, i'm better off in health, income, happiness, no debt. those things came about because of ME, not the govt. i could be better off yes, but not because of anything politicians have done....i could be better off by working harder, maybe going back to school, etc. let's have a little sense of personal responsibility here. geesh it's getting disguisting...the government isn't responsible for every bit of happiness or success a person has.

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Post #: 21

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/3/2008 5:21:25 PM

servantforuse

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Christine, You are 100% right. To many people in this Country vote for a President thinking he will make a difference in their lives. How sad. Inidviduals make their own lives more prosperous. Obama or McCain will not improve my lifestyle...

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Post #: 22

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/3/2008 6:43:39 PM

cloudboy

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You might want to actually articulate the policies of each administration --- and then compare and contrast them.

I agree with James Fallows about the Clinton Administration, who wrote:

> The most important achievement in political economy in the Clinton years was reducing the federal deficit. Just before his inauguration Clinton held an economic summit in Little Rock, at which academics, business executives, and financiers one after another moaned about how huge federal borrowing to cover debt was making capital too expensive to allow industry to grow. One year later Clinton had rammed through a tax-and-budget bill that turned a chronic deficit into a surplus.

The anti-deficit drive was controversial within the Democratic Party, because Clinton seemed to be truckling to financial markets rather than spending more for education and health. It was bitterly resisted by the Republicans; every single Republican member of Congress voted against the new taxes in the plan. It was an enormous gamble on Clinton's part: he had Al Gore cast the tie-breaking vote in the Senate. The historical judgment has to be that it paid off, for Clinton and, of vastly more importance, for the country. <

Clinton greatest failure was not intervening in Rwanda.

-------

Bush's greatest achievement is much harder for me to identify. If I had to pick, I would say preventing another terrorist attack on US soil.

Bush's greatest failure is IRAQ and his failure to secure Afghanistan. His second greatest failure is running some TWO TRILLION DOLLARS in new debt while not really investing that bounty in our infrastructure here at home.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/3/2008 6:44:36 PM >

(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 23

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/3/2008 7:02:03 PM

Aynne

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Ha ha ha, I did not realize this was in the Humor Section.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

FR:

I'm better off. So is Treasure.

I think that the issues of comparison aren't so straight forward, however.

Clinton came to office in a relatively quiet time in human history, especially with the end of the cold war, and the re-alignment of much of the world.

It was - historically - a calm period, in which much could have been done to cement gains for liberal policies, and an opportunity to make some basic changes in how the world works.

Clinton basically pissed that opportunity away.

Bush inherited a much different world economically, politically and culturally.

In other words ... the US coasted under Clinton. He pissed away a moment in time that can never be recovered.

Bush has had to fight and overcome all the lost opportunities. His terms have been filled with challenges and issues that mostly came about due to Clinton's neglect and poor leadership.

Firm

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Post #: 24

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/3/2008 7:55:03 PM

slvemike4u

Posts: 17896
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

FR:

I'm better off. So is Treasure.

I think that the issues of comparison aren't so straight forward, however.

Clinton came to office in a relatively quiet time in human history, especially with the end of the cold war, and the re-alignment of much of the world.

It was - historically - a calm period, in which much could have been done to cement gains for liberal policies, and an opportunity to make some basic changes in how the world works.

Clinton basically pissed that opportunity away.

Bush inherited a much different world economically, politically and culturally.

In other words ... the US coasted under Clinton. He pissed away a moment in time that can never be recovered.

Bush has had to fight and overcome all the lost opportunities. His terms have been filled with challenges and issues that mostly came about due to Clinton's neglect and poor leadership.

Firm

And Bush pissed away the opportunity presented by the tragedy that was 9/11,a moment unlike any other,and one we might not see again.Pissed away by a cowboy masquerading as a statesman

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Post #: 25

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/3/2008 11:56:53 PM

FirmhandKY

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

Ha ha ha, I did not realize this was in the Humor Section.

Which part did you find humor in, Aynne?

Firm

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Some people are just idiots.

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Post #: 26

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/4/2008 4:11:04 AM

Aynne

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Just the parts that aren't true. Or relevant. Or accurate. Or don't address the incredible prosperiety we enjoyed during the Clinton administration. You know, peace, prosperity and a huuuuuugggeee budget surplus? Make sure you spin that into somehow being the GOP's doing. All 8 years of it.

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And I hoped that you heard

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(in reply to FirmhandKY)

Post #: 27

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/4/2008 4:29:11 AM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

Just the parts that aren't true. Or relevant. Or accurate. Or don't address the incredible prosperiety we enjoyed during the Clinton administration. You know, peace, prosperity and a huuuuuugggeee budget surplus? Make sure you spin that into somehow being the GOP's doing. All 8 years of it.

Don't need to spin this one... which branch is tasked with developing the budget? Which party mandated the balanced budget ammendments in '92? While many would like to claim that there were huge reductions in the National Debt under Clinton... most don't realize that the outstanding debt went up every year under his administration...

I do like the smoke and mirrors though.... http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm

Just curious can you give me an example of one balanced budget (not aquiring any more debt) during a time of war?

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Post #: 28

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/4/2008 4:35:01 AM

Aynne

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http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/during_the_clinton_administration_was_the_federal.html

So now we are to excuse the little cowboy for raping this country fiscally because it is during a "war" time period? Sorry Thadius, his illegal occupation of Iraq is not justification for the way he has completely lied to, mislead, and abused the american people. Bush is going to be judged by history, as will Clinton. Want to make a wager on who comes out of that on top? Pretty much a no brainer isn't it? Of course, the long lasting repercussions of the Bush regime will be felt for decades..

< Message edited by Aynne -- 8/4/2008 4:41:04 AM >

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Post #: 29

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/4/2008 4:54:07 AM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

So now we are to excuse the little cowboy for raping this country fiscally because it is during a "war" time period? Sorry Thadius, his illegal occupation of Iraq is not justification for the way he has completely lied to, mislead, and abused the american people. Bush is going to be judged by history, as will Clinton. Want to make a wager on who comes out of that on top? Pretty much a no brainer isn't it? Of course, the long lasting repercussions of the Bush regime will be felt for decades..

To reply to the link you provided... You ignored the question I asked... Which branch and party wrote the balanced budget acts? More specifically which party controlled congress during Clinton's years? Oh and what party has been in control of congres for the last few years? I know apples and oranges right? So is comparing an 8 year period with no major conflicts (war) to a period that has war.

Please enlighten me as to how the conflict in Iraq is illegal. Using buzz words doesn't make it any more accurate.

Instead of retyping it all... http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=2046929

As to your talk about lies... I assume you are talking about the WMD issue?

quote:

http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/17/transcripts/clinton.iraq/ Bill Clinton stated:

Iraq admitted, among other things, an offensive biological warfare capability, notably, 5,000 gallons of botulinum, which causes botulism; 2,000 gallons of anthrax; 25 biological-filled Scud warheads; and 157 aerial bombs. And I might say UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq has actually greatly understated its production.... Over the past few months, as [the weapons inspectors] have come closer and closer to rooting out Iraq's remaining nuclear capacity, Saddam has undertaken yet another gambit to thwart their ambitions by imposing debilitating conditions on the inspectors and declaring key sites which have still not been inspected off limits.... It is obvious that there is an attempt here, based on the whole history of this operation since 1991, to protect whatever remains of his capacity to produce weapons of mass destruction, the missiles to deliver them, and the feed stocks necessary to produce them. The UNSCOM inspectors believe that Iraq still has stockpiles of chemical and biological munitions, a small force of Scud-type missiles, and the capacity to restart quickly its production program and build many, many more weapons.... Now, let's imagine the future. What if he fails to comply and we fail to act, or we take some ambiguous third route, which gives him yet more opportunities to develop this program of weapons of mass destruction and continue to press for the release of the sanctions and continue to ignore the solemn commitments that he made? Well, he will conclude that the international community has lost its will. He will then conclude that he can go right on and do more to rebuild an arsenal of devastating destruction. And some day, some way, I guarantee you he'll use the arsenal....

One more little highlight, regime change in Iraq became US policy in '98, Clinton signed it into public law. However, I will leave you to your hatred of a particular party and of Bush, everybody needs their boogey man.

_____________________________

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Post #: 30

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/4/2008 5:07:28 AM

Aynne

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Thadius does the word filibuster mean anything to you? Of course it is a democratic congress, and? The republicans throw a wrench into everything they attempt to do regardless, you know, that whole "party first" thing? So good for the average citizen.

Why are you guys so obsessed with hating Clinton? I mean yes it sucks that your candidate had to come in after him, but then when you guy is a complete and utter incompetent daddy's boy, wow, painful. But Clinton has been out of office for almost a decade, time to move on. *pun not intended* It is apparent that no matter how incredibly wrecked Bush continues to make this country, not to mention his far reaching effects on the rest of the world, you guys will blindly follow him. S'ok, all he has done is guarantee that the next election will not be a repeat and God could be running on the GOP ticket and after this 8 year fuck up known as W he couldn't get elected. Job well done W. Obama is going to have his work cut out for him, cleaning up the mess...

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*Yes I know I have no profile at this time...

I looked in your eyes
Without saying a word
I told you what I am
And I hoped that you heard

~Owned and Loved by Master Sifu~

*founder of I Love Lushy Inc.*

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 31

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/4/2008 5:11:03 AM

Aynne

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Oh, and Lies you ask? Here you go...and no, I am not referring to WMD's. Tip.of.iceberg.

War criminal comes to mind.

http://www.whodies.com/lies.html

_____________________________

*Yes I know I have no profile at this time...

I looked in your eyes
Without saying a word
I told you what I am
And I hoped that you heard

~Owned and Loved by Master Sifu~

*founder of I Love Lushy Inc.*

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 32

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/4/2008 5:31:02 AM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

Thadius does the word filibuster mean anything to you? Of course it is a democratic congress, and? The republicans throw a wrench into everything they attempt to do regardless, you know, that whole "party first" thing? So good for the average citizen.

Why are you guys so obsessed with hating Clinton? I mean yes it sucks that your candidate had to come in after him, but then when you guy is a complete and utter incompetent daddy's boy, wow, painful. But Clinton has been out of office for almost a decade, time to move on. *pun not intended* It is apparent that no matter how incredibly wrecked Bush continues to make this country, not to mention his far reaching effects on the rest of the world, you guys will blindly follow him. S'ok, all he has done is guarantee that the next election will not be a repeat and God could be running on the GOP ticket and after this 8 year fuck up known as W he couldn't get elected. Job well done W. Obama is going to have his work cut out for him, cleaning up the mess...

Where did I say I hated Clinton, or even imply it? Where did I claim to like Bush?

I appreciate your passion about both of these men, however you made 2 claims that I am trying to clear up. First you claimed that the Iraq war is illegal, you have yet to prove that allegation. Secondly, this link you have provided about "who dies" is about as credible as using quotes from former Iraqi Information Minister Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf (aka Baghdad Bob). http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/#quotes

P.S. Did you notice the title of the thread? It is a comparison of Clinton and W.

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Post #: 33

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/4/2008 6:03:08 AM

slaveboyforyou

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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
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quote:

Why are you guys so obsessed with hating Clinton? I mean yes it sucks that your candidate had to come in after him, but then when you guy is a complete and utter incompetent daddy's boy, wow, painful. But Clinton has been out of office for almost a decade, time to move on.

I have every right to hate Bill Clinton. I had to grow up in Arkansas while he was Governor, and I remember hearing about all the crooked shit that went on here during his watch. The Democratic Party ran a political machine in this state for over a century, and Billy boy was part of it. Election fixing, kickbacks from organized crime, shady real estate deals, sweetheart deals for his buddies, prominent Democrats convicted of drug dealing and murder, you name it. All of that went on under Bill's watch.

All the while, he did nothing to improve things in this state. We were almost dead last in education when he left office (thank God for Mississippi.) We didn't have equally funded schools until Huckabee came into office. Bill Clinton was a lying snake when he was here, a lying snake as President, and a lying snake now. It amazes me how he fools people with that country lawyer routine. It's a fucking show....He and his wife hate you and me. The proles are nothing to them but devices to better themselves. They would step on anyone and anything to get ahead. They made a mockery out of the Presidency, and they refuse to go away and stay there.

(in reply to Thadius)

Post #: 34

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/4/2008 6:52:12 AM

TheHeretic

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Do you mean the dot-com bubble, Aynne? Is that the Clinton "prosperity" you are talking about? I hope your parents didn't have their retirement money in Etoys.com...

Firm nailed it quite well. Clinton took over a country that had climbed to incredible heights, and pretended there was nothing hard left to do.

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Post #: 35

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/4/2008 6:54:31 AM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne
Why are you guys so obsessed with hating Clinton?

And what happens when someone on the right mentions Reagan?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to Aynne)

Post #: 36

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/4/2008 8:48:04 AM

cloudboy

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quote:

Do you mean the dot-com bubble, Aynne? Is that the Clinton "prosperity" you are talking about? I hope your parents didn't have their retirement money in Etoys.com...

Well, you're ignoring the balanced budget. By the logic of you and Firmhandky, Bush might have run a balanced budget on the Real Estate Bubble (much bigger in scope than the Nasdaq) .... but for some reason he didn't...

Wonder if it had anything to do with spending and tax policies? What do you think? Or was it all just luck? Clinton with the "lucky" conditions and Bush with the "difficult" ones.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 8/4/2008 9:01:38 AM >

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Post #: 37

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/4/2008 9:10:45 AM

Aynne

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Of course they are ignoring that cloudboy, for 8 years it was all smoke and mirrors.

Typical. So guys, how is the economy now? Housing? Gasoline? Foreclosures? That pesky little Iraq War?

Oh and Heretic, my parents? They are find thanks for asking and since I owned my own business during the Clinton admin as well as now, high end custom homes, let me tell you, the Bush years have sucked and if it were not for being in business for twenty years in a small community I don't know how we would have made it. I have seen many builders go under.

Thadius, can you prove to me that W did not lie us into war? I say yes, you say no. Last time I checked you were not grading this forum so no I don't have to prove to you that he did anymore than all of the evidence in the worlkd won't convince a Bushie, I do admire that blind patriotism.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

Do you mean the dot-com bubble, Aynne? Is that the Clinton "prosperity" you are talking about? I hope your parents didn't have their retirement money in Etoys.com...

Well, you're ignoring the balanced budget. By the logic of you and Firmhandky, Bush might have run a balanced budget on the Real Estate Bubble (much bigger in scope than the Nasdaq) .... but for some reason he didn't...

Wonder if it had anything to do with spending and tax policies? What do you think? Or was it all just luck? Clinton with the "lucky" conditions and Bush with the "difficult" ones.

_____________________________

*Yes I know I have no profile at this time...

I looked in your eyes
Without saying a word
I told you what I am
And I hoped that you heard

~Owned and Loved by Master Sifu~

*founder of I Love Lushy Inc.*

(in reply to cloudboy)

Post #: 38

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/4/2008 9:29:21 AM

Thadius

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Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aynne

Of course they are ignoring that cloudboy, for 8 years it was all smoke and mirrors. Typical. So guys, how is the economy now? Housing? Gasoline? Foreclosures? That pesky little Iraq War?

Oh and Heretic, my parents? They are find thanks for asking and since I owned my own business during the Clinton admin as well as now, high end custom homes, let me tell you, the Bush years have sucked and if it were not for being in business for twenty years in a small community I don't know how we would have made it. I have seen many builders go under.

Thadius, can you prove to me that W did not lie us into war? I say yes, you say no. Last time I checked you were not grading this forum so no I don't have to prove to you that he did anymore than all of the evidence in the worlkd won't convince a Bushie, I do admire that blind patriotism.

Again you keep ignoring who set the spending limits and balanced budget during Clinton's term. Let me give ya a quick hint... Contract with America. More to the point do a search for The Fiscal Responsibility Act, and balanced budged amendment.

The only one that is being blind in this discussion is you, you are closing your eyes, and keep repeating the mantra that BUSH is da debil. Bush has fucked up on a bunch of things, but to pretend he is the only one that has fucked up and gotten us into the messes we are in now is sheer madness. Both Repubs and Dems have fucked us in the ass with sandpaper.

P.S. I have already provide links showing where the things claimed by Bush were also claimed by Clinton, is he a liar as well?

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

(in reply to Aynne)

Post #: 39

RE: Bill Clinton V. George W. - 8/4/2008 10:42:05 AM

philosophy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: christine1

...the government isn't responsible for every bit of happiness or success a person has.

...true, but political events have an influence over much of our daily experience. An interest, and an opinion, in politics is part and parcel of being a responsible member of any modern society.

(in reply to christine1)

Post #: 40

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