when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse

when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (Full Version)

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LadyDarkDragon -> when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 9:05:28 AM)
I posted this rant in my journal, and it was suggested that I should put it here as well, maybe save someone from more abuse or in the extream, a life or two by making a slave stop and think of why they feel no self worth... so here goes.... well, I am about to piss off a lot of people out there, but you know what, too damn bad.. if I touch a nerve, then good, if I piss off that nerve, then maybe you need to look at yourself and ask why your pissed off.. if I hit too close to home, then maybe you need to seek help, talk to people, find out why your feeling threatened, or pissed that I dare condemn your way of life.. I dare, because I am a dominant, I live what I talk just as millions have before me.. only I am opening my mouth on what I see is a great injustice to something wonderful, that is being tainted by so called dominants, and not only the dominants, but also by subs, but that is another rant for another time...if you feel the need to email me after reading this, by all means do so, not saying I will answer you and if its hate filled, dont bother, cause all I will do is put it down to me hitting that nerve, I dont know you, nor do I care to if your writing to defend abuse and hate,..... I am tired of biting my tongue and going with the old adage of '...if thats your thing its ok, who am I to tell you its wrong...' or, as I was just told, 'you need to get over it , you cant heal the world'.. Well, that way of thinking has allowed so much bullshit to enter into this life walk, that many of us actually do live, that it isnt funny... its allowed free rein for abuse and even at times death to enter into what was at one time a full filling and loving relationship tween a dominant and slave..now my rant is mostly aimed at the so called femdommes who think that males are here to be beaten busted and back handed, that they are something to be stomped and thought of as nothing more than pieces of crap to be scraped off the shoe.. well its thinking like that, that perpetuates the abuse so many come from in their child hood..males as well as females... Those who come from that kind of back ground, need support, understanding, strength in coming to accept their submissiveness, not continuance of abuse.. give their submissiveness pride, hold them up, strengthen them, guide them into self worth, not self debasing abuse... There was a time, a female dominant who had a male slave was said to have a male companion who was her butler/companion/driver/presedo ladies maid... in public......now behind closed doors though, he was her slave.. in all aspects..and she was called a strong formidable woman...and the D/s female dominant relationship was carried out quietly, and not spoke of...except in the sisterhood... She wasn't the Gestapo bitch from hell with shoes that you could pick up a ton of trash with on the heel.. and those son of a bitches hurt to walk in by the way...she was a lady ... a real lady, strong, quiet, held herself with pride.. could stand on her own if need be, and quite often did...the relationship was what is tagged now as TPE/APE..or 24/7... but over time, thanks to society, that kind of relationship was tainted, and thrown into the trash heap... it was wrong, dirty, and any male who was in that kind of relationship was hen pecked, or pussy whipped.. when in reality, he was loved, cared for, cherished.. and we became our own worst enemy by closing our mouths.. hiding what was a wonderful symbiotic relationship tween a woman and a man... we hid so well, that now society and the life style its self has a tainted view of what a real female dominant and male slave are... the dominants arent the bitches that abuse and disfigure a man just cause he is male.. they arent the heartless haters that are portrade on the porn movies or in books.. they are strong and caring, and compassionate, it is their responsibility to build not destroy.. And thats where the submissives miss-conception has followed societies as well, they think that being a slave means that they have to take that abuse, that they are worthless as males, that they are none human, to be abused and degraded..when that is so so far from the truth.... here is the dictionary's definition of a slave... this one is from websters on the net.. Main Entry: 1slave Pronunciation: \'slav\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English sclave, from Anglo-French or Medieval Latin; Anglo-French esclave, from Medieval Latin sclavus, from Sclavus Slavic; from the frequent enslavement of Slavs in central Europe during the early Middle Ages Date: 14th century 1 : a person held in servitude as the chattel of another 2 : one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence 3 : a device (as the printer of a computer) that is directly responsive to another 4 : drudge, toiler please note the date of when slavery was first named.. and please note the date now and know that the meaning has changed a lot in civalised countries... this one is from the free dictionary on the net.. Dictionary: slave (slav) 1. One bound in servitude of a person or household.{modified} 2. One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence: “I was still the slave of education and prejudice” (Edward Gibbon). 3. One who works extremely hard. intr.v., slaved, slaves. To work very hard or doggedly; toil. ok lets take the first definition.. 1. One bound in servitude of a person or household...... how are they bound.. in this day and age, by desire on their part to serve.. pure and simple.. to force someone to serve you is the old definition of slavery..One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.... that was abolished in this country and others over a hundred years ago.. Lets use common sense here people..do you see anything in there that says to be abused, humiliated, debased, degraded, disfigured,.... hell no!.... yet so many males new to this life walk think thats exactly what is in store for them, and many because of their past, think this is normal, that that is what they deserve. and that ideal is perpetuated by society, femdomm sites on the net, the porn industry, and literature, and worst of all by some so called dominants as well... IT HAS GOT TO STOP!!!... Now, I am not talking about those who make a conscious choice to indulge in fetishes, as long as your making that choice an informed one.... NOTICE I SAID an INFORMED ONE.....not something you feel you deserve because thats what was drummed into your head, that your worthless, that as a man your lower than dog shit, and arent worthy of being treated as a human being..that is where the line has to be drawn,..... I have seen three types of submissives in my life walk, brats, unworthy, and true submissives/slaves... the first two are the ones that truly worry me... ...the first, brats.. they have the mind set that they need a huge chip on their shoulders, and think that the only way to have a dominant is for her to knock it off and grind it to dust.. then they will kneel to her.. wrong...when in reality they are more than likely hiding behind false bravado to cover great pain from past abuse, or being used by the very dominants I am ranting about.... ...the second, unworthy.. those are the ones who crawl where ever they go, because they have the mind set that they are lower than dirt, and are convinced that the only dominant they deserve is one who will beat, degrade, and humiliate them... again.. wrong....again, these have been more than likely down beat to the point of worthlessness by past abuse mentally as well as physically by life and now these so called dominants.... Now we come to the third, the true slave, now there is one who is comfortable with their submissiveness, they are open, will joke, tease, flirt, but at the mere hint will kneel and give their self willingly, they never have to be forced, or beat, or abused, degraded, or humiliated into their submissiveness.. they never crawl to offer themselves, the offer themselves with self pride, not boasting pride, but self pride in the fact they are a submissive. they are completely aware of who they are and what walk they have chosen to live. true, some slaves have fetishes of pain, CBT, scat, blood, needles, etc etc... yet they have made a conscious choice to enjoy those things... there is the secret.. conscious choice, not because they feel they deserve this treatment cause they are lower than low.. but because they enjoy testing their endurance, they enjoy the pleasure and passion it brings about to their dominant... just as serving her dinner, or rubbing her feet, or cleaning her house, or just sitting and laughing and talking brings her pleasure.. its all in the same package...and these slaves are the ones who will stand up to those so called abusive dominants and respectfully walk away from them.. yet those same dominants will label the one walking away as a player, a sub, or accuse them of not being a true slave..when in reality the slave has just shown an inner light on what that dominant is and she doesnt like it.. Ok now we get to the dominants who have it in their head, that a male is good for nothing other than debasing, humiliating, abusing, beating... if thats all you want a male slave around for, then become a pro, cause thats about all your good for.. no emotional attachment, the slave can thankfully walk away from you at the end of the session.. dont kid yourself into thinking that your a life time dominant, cause your not! your using the ideal of a dominant to be an abusive bitch..a dominant isnt someone who walks in and throws their wight around, and barking out orders, as she back hands the male to the floor, then screams obscenities at him and beats him till he is bloody and black and blue.. just to prove to the slave she is in control... No!.. She walks in silently, with just as much pride as the slave, in who and what she is... her orders are respectfully asked, her wants and desires are respectfully made known..a true dominants power is in her persona, how she carrys herself, it enters a room as an aura around her.. And to show that power, she guides and teaches, she helps open doors to show the slave their potential, she nurtures and builds on that slaves strengths, and compassionately and patiently helps the slave understand and over come their weakness, that is where the true power of a dominant is.. not how bloody and bruised she can make a slave....and in turn, if the dominant guides the slave as she should, then the slave will help her grow as well.. A true D/s relationship is as I said in the beginning, a symbiotic relationship.. it is no different than a so called vanilla relationship except that the traditional roles are reversed.. as I also said in the beginning, some call it total power exchange, or absolute power exchange.. but in reality, its nothing more than an open caring relationship...and I for one am thankful that Well there you have my rant and rave, as I said before, if you feel you need to respond, by all means do so.. if you agree with me, then by the gods, open your mouth as well, this silence has got to stop........ Brightest Blessings...

thetammyjo -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 9:20:08 AM)
May I make a strong suggestion? Edit this and revise it. As it is, I found very difficult to understand and that means that any comments you get will run a very high risk of misunderstanding what you are trying to talk about. Cut and Paste it into a word document then give yourself a few days to calm down and then reread it -- out loud please because you can catch a lot of confusions that way. Since this is something you feel strongly about and you are attempting to start a discussion, making it as readable as possible will only be to your benefit.

RCdc -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 9:23:02 AM)
Honestly? I am a patient person... or so I am informed. I also take time to read through matter and whatever you are trying to say through your post is going to be lost a many people - you haven't done yourself any favours because the post isn't easy to read (I am not trying to be a grammar nazi - but unless you punctuate and use capitals and correct abbreviasion, many people will skip by the post and just say 'Too long to read'. On the post itself, I am not going to say whether I agree or not - because it is just too long a post to go through and explain this and that and what I agree with and disagree with. Maybe when I might have time later I may. But really, you need to get over it. Maybe it's the people you surround yourself with. Maybe it is the people you attract. I simply do not come across the majority of people as you do. Maybe it might help if you analyse your own interactions to see why you attract this type or notice it more than others. But for me, the majority is sound and well based with good balance. I think you just need to realise you can't save the world and that people are responsible for themselves. the.dark.

natasha66 -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 9:28:28 AM)
I've said many times, that although I am a sub/slave, I WILL NOT allow myself to be abused anymore. I say "anymore" because I was in a previous D/s relationship where I allowed it. I can say I didn't know better, but the honest truth is I felt I somehow deserved it. I didn't and I don't deserve that abuse and neither does anyone else. It was thanks to my current Master that I was able to open my eyes and see it for what it was. There are many things I used to accept that I refuse to accept as "normal" or "acceptable" now. Now I submit because I WANT to, not because I feel I HAVE to. Like the OP said, it is a CHOICE, not an obligation.

LadyDarkDragon -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 9:36:05 AM)
thanks for the grammer suggestions, from my first two readers, and I mean that sincerly, however, I dont have word perfect, nor am I an english major.. so it will have to stay as it stands, and as for it being too long, if one takes the time to actualy read it insted of just scanning it, then the point becomes clear... now as to why I am ranting about this subject, is because it has become clear to me that the abuse male slaves endure is mostly because they are either too embarrassed to blow the whistle, {your a man, and you let a woman beat you up, grow some balls} is just one hit I am told is said... or they are too convenced that they deserve this abuse. Now the circles I run in dont have this kind of thing all the time, as I surround myself with those who feel as I do about any kind of abuse... so no darcey, it isnt who I 'run' with, but it is who seems to come into my circle of friends. Those seeking shelter from the abuse.. male and female... just as stray animales will find the one house in the neighborhood where they can rest and be safe...again, thank you for your suggestions, .. and will do the best I can ... this is after all my first time posting on a blog... LDD

CallaFirestormBW -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 10:27:52 AM)
LadyDarkDragon, Your post seems to address a certain set of "attitudes" or "feelings" (or the lack thereof) that, to you, seems to constitute an "unsuitable" domina. While I am not particularly drawn to "humiliation" fetishers on either side of the collar, I do not think that your statements have any kind of universal application. In addition, I've lived with my Darling for over a decade. She is a humiliation fetishist (among her stack of fetishes) and while I don't enjoy it myself, I've seen the fetish work well and bring pleasure to a number of individuals on the collared side of the relationship. There seems to be an impression out there (in my opinion a mistaken impression) that there is a common "lifestyle" that everyone who is involved in BDSM must follow. It is wasteful of one's energy to focus attention on perceived "negatives" in someone else's relationship. There -is- no "common culture" in BDSM. There is not even a concrete list of common -behaviors- that everyone who concedes to be within the general umbrella of BDSM practices. You rant on and on about individuals who practice in many ways and how their practices are actually -abuse-, but to me, the act of consent is the determining factor on what is 'abuse' and what is not. If these people are in a consensual relationship, even if they're behaving in a way that you don't agree with, they are -not- "wrong" or "abusive". I'd say that the people that you encountered who came to you as a "safehouse" have already dealt with their issue of abuse -- they withdrew consent and left. In addition, you make assumptions about professional dominatrices, daring to presume that they feel nothing for their clients. I have had the pleasure of knowing a few of these professionals firsthand. Not only do most of them have personal servants whom they are quite fond of, a fair majority (in fact, all of the best quality individuals) have a clientele made up of steady, repeat customers of whom they may be quite fond as well. I do not have a "romantic" relationship with our servants -- that's just the way it is. It has nothing to do with whether I value their service, because I -do-... particularly if they are obedient and intuitive about what needs to be attended to and truly make my life easier. One might even say that I am grateful to have them. Over time, I am likely to develop quite a bit of affection for my servants (think along the lines of Alfred, Batman's butler). The same goes for my Darling. She is not an emotionally effusive person in any sense, but when we have a skilled, perceptive servant in the house, she is substantially more at ease, quicker to laugh, and much more relaxed and friendly than when we are without. However, she will be the first to tell you that she is not nurturing, and her particular fetish is heavily weighted towards humiliation and mindf*cks. In the same manner as myself, though, her practices are consensual. All parties are there because they enjoy that kind of thing. As it is consensual, and would stop the moment consent was withdrawn, who has a right to say that her humiliation (mental) or ball-busting (physical) is "abuse"? How can you know, without knowing the people or the situation, whether something is abusive? You get to decide what works for you, but it is the height of hubris to decide that you know and have the authority to declare what is appropriate for someone else in hir consensual relationship. Oh, I almost forgot your comment about "brats" and your speculation that they got to be that way because of a "bad dominant" or that their "brattiness" is all about a chip on their shoulder. In almost 30 years, I've known more than a few brats. I don't do D/s with them, because I don't enjoy brattiness, but I've topped more than one or two. In general, these folks don't have a chip on their shoulder. They genuinely -enjoy- smartmouthing, being cynical, and daring the Top/Dom to bring them into line. It is a right joyful game for them -- and for the people who enjoy topping/dominating them. The ones I've scened with are also fantastic masochists. They can embrace pain like nobody I know, and I appreciate the hell out of it, because a good masochist is hard to find. The vast majority of brats are NOT messed up by some dominant being "bad". They're just naturally cynical, naturally mouthy submissives who get a kick out of being outrageous and being yanked back into line. On the other hand, your commentary about them was actually -very- degrading. It implied that this group of submissive individuals is somehow "unfit" and have been "broken" or "messed up", when that is almost never the case. I know you thought, in your backhanded way, that you were defending them by attributing their "inappropriate" (in your mind) behavior to some trauma that could be twisted to justify your opinion and declaratives about what is "right" and "wrong". In the process, though, you forced all brats into one bucket... under typical circumstances, a very sparsely populated bucket at that. Anyway, that's my plug-nickel's worth. Calla Firestorm

Aileen1968 -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 10:36:35 AM)
I think that somewhere, buried in the midst of all of that, is the idea that your way is the only way and the correct way. Any other way is abuse. Blah blah blah. Good luck with that.

UmbraDomina -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 10:50:01 AM)
I beat my slave, I have been known to beat him bloody, bruise him, slap him, and tie him up in bondage. I tease, torment and even restrict his ablity to have a orgasm.....does that make him abused? no it makes him aroused!!! I also love my slave, I have loved him for 8 years, he is much more then a slave to me he is my partner, my love, my best friend. We choose through consensual choices to enjoy our lives a bit different then many others in the world. Is it abuse? hell no, he is a 300 lb former marine, if he truely didn't want to do something trust me, he could stop me he is as strong willed and smart as I am, thats why I choose him, I have no desire for a doormat..... but he chooses to submit to my desires and wants... it's freedom of choice. You may call me unsuitable, you may find me scarey and abusive, and that is why you are not in a releationship with me. Alexandra ~

Madame4a -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 11:08:41 AM)
I have to echo what others have said, your point is really getting lost because of how that is written. Its a very difficult, long, and confusing read. Ultimately, one person's abuse is another's turn on -- really its true! Calla Firestorm brought up the word "consent" and really that's what its all about, consent. ETA - I did just look at your profile and it does kind of feel like you think your way is the one true one.

softness -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 11:40:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyDarkDragon thanks for the grammer suggestions, from my first two readers, and I mean that sincerly, however, I dont have word perfect, nor am I an english major.. so it will have to stay as it stands, and as for it being too long, if one takes the time to actualy read it insted of just scanning it, then the point becomes clear... , thank you for your suggestions, .. and will do the best I can ... this is after all my first time posting on a blog... LDD what follows is a supposed to be helpful, not patronising. smiles Read through what you wrote again ... and try the following If you take a breath where there is a natural break. Use a full stop. If you simply pause, use a comma. If you want to show a strong emotion. Well! Its time for an exclamation! When you change idea, or begin to make a different point. Start a new paragraph. You obviously really care about what you talk about in your OP and want people to read and listento your view. Doing those things will really help us with that.

LadyDarkDragon -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 11:40:58 AM)
OK, I was going to try to please everyone by editing, but as I havent been here in a year, and am new, I have no clue how.. soooo.. here goes what I can say.... what part of this is being missed..... "" Lets use common sense here people..do you see anything in there that says to be abused, humiliated, debased, degraded, disfigured,.... hell no!.... yet so many males new to this life walk think thats exactly what is in store for them, and many because of their past, think this is normal, that that is what they deserve. and that ideal is perpetuated by society, femdomm sites on the net, the porn industry, and literature, and worst of all by some so called dominants as well... IT HAS GOT TO STOP!!!... Now, I am not talking about those who make a conscious choice to indulge in fetishes, as long as your making that choice an informed one.... NOTICE I SAID an INFORMED ONE.....not something you feel you deserve because thats what was drummed into your head, that your worthless, that as a man your lower than dog shit, and arent worthy of being treated as a human being..that is where the line has to be drawn,..... "" yes its a long read, and apparently its only being scanned, granted, I am not an english professer, so I dont know sentence structure, nor do I spell like a damn computer, I havent been in school for thirty years and have other things to see to in my life than how well I put a pargraph together....Nor.. am I trying to push my way of life on anyone else... for most of you who are posting, what are you getting upset over, from the sounds of things you and yours are completely consensual on your fetishes... what I am talking about.. are those who enter into this life as predotors seeking those who are weak emotionaly.. to feed their abusive nature by useing others... thats what we need to stand up against... to keep from offending anyone, gods forbid, we turn away when we see a slave who is brused or beaten beond belief, and is so ashamed of what has happened that they try to hide .. convencing themselfs once again that they deserved it...and we nodd and laugh when hear the dominant brag about how well the bitch took it.. its not till the same slave is in the hospital that we shake our heads and say well someone should have done something.. thats what I am saying ... in a nut shell, ... when does the pleasure become abuse?.... when there is no concious concent.. when that slave is not emotionaly able to make an informed concent... those are the ones who need us to be watch dogs... we yell to high heavens when its a child or an animal ... and when its a female slave... but when its a male.... the quote is.. well hes a man, he can get out if he wants to.... shakes my head... can he?? how many horror stories do you personaly know where he didnt.. till he was already mamed or mentaly destroyed............... INFORMED CONCENT.....

LadyDarkDragon -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 11:52:24 AM)
that is my personal profile,.. and no where in it did I say that this is the only way things should be.... I said......this is how I and mine live our lives... IF ONE IS INTERESTED IN THIS WALK CONTACT ME.... I have my personal preffrences just like everyone else... am I not allowed to have those either??..... hummm seems to me that again it is go with the main ideal of what D/s is or your pushing yourself on others.. again we fall back to the follow the pack.. turn your head dont rock the boat...

LadyDarkDragon -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 11:54:43 AM)
seriously, thank you softness, if I could edit, I would... shrugs... maybe some will read beond the english goofs and see what is really being said...

softness -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 11:59:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyDarkDragon seriously, thank you softness, if I could edit, I would... shrugs... maybe some will read beond the english goofs and see what is really being said... copy and paste you OP into word/notepad/collarme post window ... edit it ... re post ... nothing could be simpler

Daes -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 12:53:17 PM)
She's not saying "it should be this way and not that way" - What /I/ took from this is that some dominants go too far and use the lifestyle as grounds to abuse their submissives. And some see the red flags but dont say anything about it. A kind of "Not in my backyard" kinda thing. I've seen people get into abusive D/s relationships. It's a two way street though. In my opinion if the submissive in question is stupid enough to believe that Abuse is OK, then hell - they kinda deserve it don't they. You could attempt to help and get them out of the situation but really it is up to Them to do something about it. Bottom line is that there are abusive assholes in the world and we should educate ourselves and use some Common Sense in order to not engage in abusive relationships no matter what the dynamic. Quite frankly, I think this rant should be more geared toward submissives who don't know what abuse is.

LadyDarkDragon -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 1:24:01 PM)
Ok here goes the edited version… and its longer… you all asked for the edits… luckly my boy tony has microsoft word on his comp... I dont.. I posted this rant in my journal, and it was suggested that I should put it here as well to maybe save someone from more abuse or in the extreme, a life or two by making a slave stop and think of why they feel no self worth... so here goes.... Well I am about to piss off a lot of people out there. But you know what, too damn bad... If I touch a nerve, then good, then maybe you need to look at yourself and ask why your pissed off… If I hit too close to home, then maybe you need to seek help, talk to people. Find out why your feeling threatened, or pissed that I dare condemn an abusive person in this life walk... I dare, because being a dominant means I have responsibilities not only to my slaves, but to the life walk itself and those around me. I feel that it is high time what is right should be done, so I am opening my mouth on what I see is a great injustice to something wonderful. Something that should be open and enjoyable is being tainted by so called dominants who use this life walk as an excuse to prey on those weaker to feed their abusive natures… I am tired of biting my tongue and going with the old adage of '...if that’s your thing its ok, who am I to tell you its wrong...' or, as I was just told, 'you need to get over it… you cant heal the world'… Well, that way of thinking has allowed so much bullshit to enter into this life walk, that many of us actually do live, that it isn’t funny... its allowed free rein for abuse and even at times death to enter into what should be a full filling and rewarding relationship between a dominant and slave… My rant is mostly aimed at the so called femdommes who think that males are here only to be beaten busted and back handed, that they are something to be stomped and thought of as nothing more than pieces of crap to be scraped off the shoe… It is thinking like that, that perpetuates the abuse so many come from in their child hood… males as well as females... Those who come from that kind of background need support, understanding, strength, in coming to accept their submissiveness not continuance of abuse… As dominants, it is our responsibility to give their submissiveness pride, hold them up, strengthen them, guide them into self worth, not self-debasing abuse… There was a time, a female dominant who had a male slave was said to have a male companion who was her butler/companion/driver/presidio ladies maid... in public... Now, behind closed doors though he was her slave… in all aspects… and she was called a strong formidable woman...and the D/s female dominant relationship was carried out quietly, and not spoke of for fear of being labeled immoral... She wasn't the Gestapo bitch from hell with shoes that you could pick up a ton of trash with on the heel… {and I am speaking of the porn ideal of what a dominant is supposed to look like… I to have wore the heels… and those damn things hurt to walk in by the way, but they are not what makes a dominant…} ...she was a lady ... a real lady, strong, held herself with pride… could stand on her, and quite often did... choosing to have a male by her side, not the other way around… the relationship was what is tagged now as TPE/APE… or 24/7... but over time, thanks to society, that kind of relationship has been tainted, and thrown into the trash heap... we became our own worst enemy by closing our mouths… hiding what was a wonderful symbiotic relationship between a woman and a man... we hid so well, that now society and the life style its self has a tainted view of what a real female dominant and male slave are... Now its become something to be snickered at, wrong, dirty, and any male who was or is in that kind of relationship, is called hen pecked, or pussy whipped… when in reality, he was and is loved, cared for, cherished, the dominants aren’t the bitches that abuse and disfigure a man just cause he is male… they aren’t the heartless haters that are portrayed on the porn movies or in books… they are strong and caring, and compassionate, it is their responsibility to build not destroy… And that venue is also where the submissives miss-conception has followed societies as well, they think that being a slave means that they have to take that abuse, that they are worthless as males, that they are none human, to be abused and degraded… when that is so so far from the truth.... here is the dictionary's definition of a slave... this one is from websters on the net.. Main Entry: 1slave Pronunciation: \'slav\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle English sclave, from Anglo-French or Medieval Latin; Anglo-French esclave, from Medieval Latin sclavus, from Sclavus Slavic; from the frequent enslavement of Slavs in central Europe during the early Middle Ages Date: 14th century 1 : a person held in servitude as the chattel of another 2 : one that is completely subservient to a dominating influence 3 : a device (as the printer of a computer) that is directly responsive to another 4 : drudge, toiler please note the date of when slavery was first named.. and please note the date now and know that the meaning has changed a lot in civalised countries... this one is from the free dictionary on the net.. Dictionary: slave (slav) 1. One bound in servitude of a person or household.{modified} 2. One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence: “I was still the slave of education and prejudice” (Edward Gibbon). 3. One who works extremely hard. intr.v., slaved, slaves. To work very hard or doggedly; toil Ok lets take the first definition… 1. One bound in servitude of a person or household... how are they bound? In this day and age, by desire on their part to serve… pure and simple… To force someone to serve you is the old definition of slavery..One bound in servitude as the property of a person or household.... that was abolished in this country and others over a hundred years ago… Lets use common sense here people… Do you see anything in there that says to be abused, humiliated, debased, degraded, disfigured against their will? Hell no! Yet so many males new to this life walk think that is exactly what is in store for them, and many because of their past, think this is normal, that that is what they deserve. And that ideal is perpetuated by society, femdomme sites on the net, the porn industry, and literature, and worst of all by some so called dominants as well... IT HAS GOT TO STOP!!!... Now, I am not talking about those who make a conscious choice to indulge in fetishes, as long as that choice being made is an informed one.... NOTICE I SAID an INFORMED ONE!!!... Not something you feel you deserve because that’s what was drummed into your head from child hood on up, that as a man, your worthless, your lower than dog shit, and aren’t worthy of being treated as a human being… that is where the line has to be drawn... I have seen three types of submissives in my life walk, brats, unworthy, and true submissives/slaves... The first two are the ones that truly worry me... ...the first, brats… those few who have the mind set that they need a huge chip on their shoulders, and think that the only way to find the right dominant is for her to knock it off and grind it to dust… then they will kneel to her… wrong... when in reality they are more than likely hiding behind false bravado to cover great pain from past abuse, or being used by the very dominants I am ranting about.... {And, no I am not talking about those who are well rounded, and are conscious of their actions, and make a conscious choice to accept the forms of reprisals and fetishes that go with who they are} ...the second, unworthy… those are the ones who crawl where ever they go, because they have the mind set that they are lower than dirt, and are convinced that the only dominant they deserve is one who will beat, degrade, and humiliate them... again… wrong... again, these have been more than likely down beat to the point of worthlessness by past abuse mentally as well as physically by life and now these so called dominants... Then there is the third, the true slave, this one is comfortable with their submissiveness, they are open, will joke, tease, flirt, and at the mere hint will kneel and give their self willingly, they never have to be forced, or beat, or abused, degraded, or humiliated into their submissiveness… they never crawl to offer themselves because they feel worthless, they offer themselves with self pride, not boasting pride, but self pride in the fact they are a submissive. They are completely aware of who they are and what walk they have chosen to live. True, some slaves have fetishes of pain, CBT, scat, blood, needles, etc etc... They have made a conscious choice to enjoy those things... there is the secret… conscious choice, not because they feel they deserve this treatment cause they are lower than low… but because they enjoy testing their endurance, they enjoy the pleasure and passion it brings to themselves AND to their dominant... just as serving her dinner, or rubbing her feet, cleaning her house, or just sitting and laughing and talking brings her pleasure… its all in the same package... And these slaves are the ones who will stand up to the abusive dominant when it is shown there is no respect or compassion returned, and respectfully walk away from them… yet those same dominants will label the one walking away as a player, a sub, or accuse them of not being a true slave… when in reality the slave has just shown an inner light on what that dominant is and she doesn’t like it… Ok now we get to the place where I am sure many are going to get defencive… Those who have it in their head, that a male is hated, good for nothing other than debasing, humiliating, abusing, beating, spit on, kicked and if they chose, killed… in short, someone who has no business being in any close relationship with a male what so ever... if that’s all you want a male slave around for, then become one of the many pretend pro’s out there, cause that’s about all your good for… no emotional attachment, where the slave can hopefully walk away from you at the end of the session… Don’t kid yourself into thinking that you’re a lifetime dominant cause your not! Your using the ideal of a dominant to be an abusive bitch… a dominant isn’t someone who walks in and throws their weight around, and barking out orders, as she back hands the male to the floor, then screams obscenities at him and beats him till he is bloody and black and blue... just to prove to the slave she is in control... No!! … She walks in silently, with just as much pride as the slave, in who and what she is... Her orders are, even if loud, respectfully asked, her wants and desires are respectfully made known… A true dominants power is in her persona, how she caries herself. The power enters a room as an aura around her… And to show that power, she guides and teaches, she helps open doors to show the slave their potential, she nurtures and builds on that slaves strengths, and compassionately and patiently helps the slave understand and over come their weakness, that is where the true power of a dominant is… not how bloody and bruised she can make a slave... and in turn, if the dominant guides the slave as she should, then the slave will help her grow as well... A true D/s relationship is as I said in the beginning, is a symbiotic relationship… it is no different than a so called vanilla relationship except that the traditional roles are reversed… as I also said in the beginning, some call it total power exchange, or absolute power exchange… but in reality, its nothing more than an open caring relationship... and I for one am thankful that! Well there you have my rant and rave, as I said before, if you feel you need to respond, by all means do so… not saying I will answer you and if its hate filled, don’t bother, cause all I will do is put it down to me hitting that nerve, I don’t know you, nor do I care to if your writing to defend abuse and hate… if you agree with me, then by the gods, open your mouth as well, this silence has got to stop... Brightest Blessings...

Daes -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 1:32:31 PM)
Just so you know, some people DO enjoy extreme forms of play even if you don't agree with it though. Now that you've made edits that encourage me to read it, I can see this underlying tone. I'm sticking to what I said before, in addition to my statement, there are people that DO enjoy extreme forms of play so I wouldnt create a stereotype by making generalizations.

LadyDarkDragon -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 1:52:06 PM)
sighsssssssssssss good gods... if its not one thing its another with you people... here I corrected the damn word.. if what was happening all in the name of BDSM was scrutinized as close as my damn sentence structure and spelling, there wouldnt be any worry about male or female slaves being sent to the hospitals because the so called dominant decided they werent submissive enough....................!!!! what part of ...INFORMED CONSENT... is not getting through... I personaly dont care if a slave is happy and content with extream use...more power to what ever trips their trigger..... what I am getting at is the slave who has been beat down by life sooo much, that thats what he thinks he deserves.... who will take the abuse because thats what will amuse the dominant.. not because they willingly enjoy it............ As I said before, how many times have we heard or seen or know of a male who has been hospitalised because some dominant thought it was ok to cut on his balls, or nail his balls to the floor for not cleaning said floor correctly.. or cut off his nipples because he dared to bite her too hard... or to punish him, use rusty tools on his ass, or pour soap down his euretra tube causeing permanant scaring.. and the list goes on and on of slaves that I know personaly or friend dominants who have known these slaves.... the horrors of what can happen to a male go way more untold because of the stigma of how strong a male is supposed to be... one dominant spoke of how she was with her slave/hubbie, and that he enjoyed how they were together, but I bet you ten dollars to a hole in a doughnut, if she tried half that stuff I just described he would walk........... well saddly, there are those who dont, dont feel they have a right to, and part of the fault is because some in this lifestyle have convenced them that as a slave they give up all rights once the collar is on.....they still have rights as a human being... a right to be safe.. to say no... and for those who are so afraid to say no, afraid to be alone, or unloved, those are the ones we as dominants have the responsibility to .. to protect.. help if we can.. point the finger and say thats wrong........

Madame4a -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 2:03:48 PM)
consent, its consent

Daes -> RE: when the line is crossed from pleasure to abuse (8/5/2008 2:18:48 PM)
You have to also take into consideration that there are subs that give consent without really realizing what they are doing and feel like they cannot say "No". They go along with the abuse. Hence my previous statements. It's a two way street and if you have stupid subs out there that don't have the common sense to avoid abuse then they get what they deserve.

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