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Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 5:44:05 PM   
Roselaure


Posts: 672
Joined: 4/12/2008
Status: offline 		Last night I received this as an initial C-Mail from a Dom.

"you are a newbie 45 year old sub. You will take alot of training. "

My question is, how important is factor is age in whether a submissive or slave is "trainable"?  What is the most important factor? 


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Once conform, once do what other people do because they do it, and lethargy steals over all the finer nerves and faculties of the soul.
-Virginia Woolf
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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 5:48:56 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		The most important factor is willingness. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink is the old saying.

Willingness and compatibility I'd say. As far as age relating to training, someone older will have had time to develope many bad habbits, potentially an that might take a lot of time to train out, but I don't think someone younger would be better for training than someone older.

(in reply to Roselaure)
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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 6:04:32 PM   
Micromanager


Posts: 8
Joined: 6/7/2007
Status: offline 		I don't think age is a hindrance to specific training. I do wonder about a grown woman who needs training from scratch because she is 'discovering her submission'. I always puzzle over where it was hiding before. For me, it's like someone 'discovering' they need to breath. YMMV.

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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 6:08:52 PM   
YourhandMyAss


Posts: 5516
Joined: 6/25/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Not every one knew they wanted to be submissive right from the starting gate. And not every one started out knowing who they were and what they were.

And I believe, personally that in any new relationship you start from ground up, weather it's training or something else, cause what you learned while with dude over there may not apply to dude over here. For example  eye contact restriction was something my x never wanted, he wanted you to look at him when he spoke to you, not the ground, so if dude over here expects it, well he's going to have to train me"from the ground up, on that issue"
quote:

ORIGINAL: Micromanager

I don't think age is a hindrance to specific training. I do wonder about a grown woman who needs training from scratch because she is 'discovering her submission'. I always puzzle over where it was hiding before. For me, it's like someone 'discovering' they need to breath. YMMV.

(in reply to Micromanager)
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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 6:08:57 PM   
Roselaure


Posts: 672
Joined: 4/12/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Micromanager

I don't think age is a hindrance to specific training. I do wonder about a grown woman who needs training from scratch because she is 'discovering her submission'. I always puzzle over where it was hiding before. For me, it's like someone 'discovering' they need to breath. YMMV.


I puzzle where it was hiding too.  It came out in a variety of ways, and now I think "Oh so that's what that was."  It takes some of us longer to find ourselves.

_____________________________

Once conform, once do what other people do because they do it, and lethargy steals over all the finer nerves and faculties of the soul.
-Virginia Woolf

(in reply to Micromanager)
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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 6:17:27 PM   
Quivver


Posts: 1953
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		First remember that there are 2 schools of thought. 
Those who believe that `training` is necessary, and those who think `training` is BS. 
Needless to say, I belong in the second group. 

With that said.  I too had not defined myself as submissive in my younger years. 
Then along came 40 when I corolated what I wanted with a word I could define. 
I was not an animal, I was a 40 year old woman ...
Maybe it's only Me who feels I didnt need trained. 
But what is training? 
Go ahead and search it here, you'll find a million different thoughts on the subject. 

Mine are simple : 
If you want to do something you will try to do the best you know how. 
If you've not done it before it's more of a conditioning process then training. 
(just the word itself pisses me off)
Bottom line is it's learning to please who you chose to please. 

Possibly learning to please is easier when younger, but somehow I doubt it. 
If you have UM's of your own you can reasonate what I'm saying. 
They tend to go along with a program, then rebel. 
At our age, we should know ourselves well enough to make any transition easy. 

training......... ICK


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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 6:24:03 PM   
Micromanager


Posts: 8
Joined: 6/7/2007
Status: offline 		See? Half a story, this is like overhearing half a fascinating conversation on a train. 'You know those things on the end of my body? I suspected they had a use when I realised that's what shoes are for, but the other day, I suddenly -oh, this is my stop, nice talking to you.' Don't want to hijack this thread, so if anyone feels like blurting out their life story in a pm to a complete stranger.......... Anyone..........?

< Message edited by Micromanager -- 8/8/2008 6:27:23 PM >

(in reply to Roselaure)
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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 6:25:57 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Roselaure

Last night I received this as an initial C-Mail from a Dom.

"you are a newbie 45 year old sub. You will take alot of training. "

My question is, how important is factor is age in whether a submissive or slave is "trainable"?  What is the most important factor? 



Well I would say that your age was essential in training you with the important lesson of how to recognize a dom who has no clue what he's talking about.  So there, it had to be good for something *laughs*

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Roselaure)
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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 6:30:02 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		To us, there are two kinds of training. Neither have anything to do with submission per se, except in the individual's submission to the discipline. The training we talk about is all practical stuff. The only way that age would play a factor is if the individual proved to have age-related health issues that prevented proper service in certain areas... and even then, almost everything is modifiable.

[1] Basic training that directs the servant in what we prefer, how we like things done, and the specifics of the tasks that xhe has been assigned. Not so much teaching from scratch, but instilling the particular disciplines of what we like and don't like. These are patterns of action that would be taught whether we were hiring a service, or bringing a new servant into the household.

[2] Advanced, specific training in certain skills -- for example, Butlery, tea service, etc. These are skills that would be taught no matter whether the person was BDSM oriented or not.

Submission is an attitude and internal way of being that impacts how one relates to certain individuals in the common world, including the bdsm community -- it does not need to be 'trained'... only given the opportunity to blossom.

Calla Firestorm





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***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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(in reply to Quivver)
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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 6:32:20 PM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		I think that by your 40s your general inclination is there but training by a specific Dom will need to be given.  I know my Master well enough that if He simply says, "Please me", I don't have to ask for specific.  I am 47 and I obviously wasn't too old to learn what He wanted me to do.  In fact, He has me training a 69 year old novice Dom and allowing him to practice on me, so obviously 69 is not too old.  It all depends on your willingness to learn.

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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 6:36:37 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss

The most important factor is willingness. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink is the old saying.



You can lead a whore to culture but you cannot make her think.....
at my age i need no training. i've had all the resistance whipped out of me.


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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 7:00:02 PM   
Maxwell67


Posts: 435
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
quote:

ORIGINAL: YourhandMyAss
The most important factor is willingness. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink is the old saying.

You can lead a whore to culture but you cannot make her think.....
at my age i need no training. i've had all the resistance whipped out of me.


Ok, I have to admit it, that works.  Just what is training really?  It is getting your sub familiar with what it takes to please you?  Well, for myself the things you might possibly come previously trained with that I would find useful (aside from those skills which could be termed 'vanilla') could be taught in a day or two tops.  The rest is about the dynamic beween us.  If it is that sort of training then it is not "your training," it is "O/our training."  How long that takes is dependent on enthusiasm.  No resistance may not cover everything but its a great start in my book.  I personally enjoy the "training" part as it tends to be filled with "new relationship energy"  (thanks to Calla FirestormBW for that term).

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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 7:25:20 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		I dont' think it's all that complicated.  I'm training my wife in a LOT of ways... of course, I could also use a less edgy word like "teaching" but that wouldn't make me one of the cool kids.  Specifically related to her submission though, we both came to this from blank vanilla.  So for her, there is an entire role adoption process going on starting out with getting a vision inside her head of what, exactly, the role "slave" means.  Because I like to be cool and edgy, I am training her to be a slave.  I'm also training her to please me in some specifics.  I'm also training her to be a better herself (more focus on art and woodworking, get out of cubicle culture, etc.)

In all of that though, I can't for the life of me think what age has to do with anything.  Discipline, integrity, intent... those are the things that would matter that I can see. 

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Maxwell67)
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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 7:35:31 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		Pssst... (whispers) and if you were 18, his response would have been: "You are young and inexperienced... you will require a lot of training."

LOL

Heck, I think "Mythbusters" did a show last season on the old addage, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" and totally busted it. If an old dog can learn, so can a human sub... the only difference that comes into play is a physical consideration of possible health concerns. (stiff joints, heart problems, poor circulation...) That's all.

(in reply to leadership527)
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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 7:50:43 PM   
Roselaure


Posts: 672
Joined: 4/12/2008
Status: offline 		I learned to "be pleasing" as a very young child.  it was valued in the home where I grew up.  Got that down, although learning what it means to be pleasing to a specific person requires training or teaching of some kind for anyone, no matter their age.  I consider myself at 45 to be far more understanding, tolerant and forgiving of human failings than I was at 20, which, unless my potential Dominant happens to be perfect, should come in quite handy. 


_____________________________

Once conform, once do what other people do because they do it, and lethargy steals over all the finer nerves and faculties of the soul.
-Virginia Woolf

(in reply to bipolarber)
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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 8:06:06 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		I think 'trainability' (whatever the hell that is) is a variable from one individual to another; in some people age might be a factor but it cuts both ways, as some young people think they know all and some older people are set in their ways.  In any event the Dom who wrote to you -- without prompting -- just to point out what he thought was a defect in you is an azz.
 
candystripper

(in reply to Roselaure)
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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 8:14:37 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Did you think to ask him what he meant by that?  What sort of training?  Most of us are hard wired to cater to our mate, especially in the early years.  Is his training specific to certain things?  Dance? Hostess duties? 
People use the word training as if it has some special power over us.  It has become some mythical ideal that we are somehow lacking and need to learn the "ways of submission."
When someone mentions stretching my limits or the need to train me, I always want to know what they mean by that.  Don't be afraid to ask questions to clarify things.  It may not be what you think.
Kyst

< Message edited by Missokyst -- 8/8/2008 8:15:37 PM >

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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 8:17:52 PM   
Roselaure


Posts: 672
Joined: 4/12/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

Did you think to ask him what he meant by that?  What sort of training? 


Actually I just kind of though he was a tool.

_____________________________

Once conform, once do what other people do because they do it, and lethargy steals over all the finer nerves and faculties of the soul.
-Virginia Woolf

(in reply to Missokyst)
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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 8:20:04 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Heh.. well that would have been my thought, but I have been at this more than a few years. 
Once though... just once, I did come across someone that had an answer for that.  I ended up working in his nightclub as a bartender.  I never became his sub, but he taught me a useful trade.
Kyst

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RE: Age and Trainability - 8/8/2008 8:26:30 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		It al depends on how stubborn one is about "thier way."

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I'm not taking custom orders.

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