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sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/12/2008 1:35:25 PM

compassionatedad

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A thread in another forum here caught my attention and made me consider the question of whether I would be able to do anything to fulfill a sub's fantasy. The simple minded answer, is that a sub should have no expectation that their fantasies be fulfilled and that a Dom/me should be free to do just about anything the He/She wishes, but in my mind the question is more complex.

A widely held fantasy amongst subs is to be raped involuntarily. The other forum thread in fact discussed a sub who was so startled and traumatized by an intruder that she lost all interest in that particular fantasy. Something remotely related to that happened to me many years ago when a very close friend shared with me the pain and grief that she experienced when she was herself raped. I was in fact traumatized by her confession, so much so that I do not feel that I could participate in the planning, execution of or in any way allow my sub to have that experience, even in a highly controlled fantasy.

So the ultimate question is... Can the sub be content in a relationship if they have to abandon their strongly held fantasy due to the fact that their Dom/me has a hard limit on the same subject? Will the Dom/me's limit ultimately lead to a failure in the relationship somewhere else? I ask for the sub's opinion on this point.

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RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/12/2008 1:41:53 PM

AquaticSub

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It would depend on the fantasy and how much the person in question wants it. For your particular example, I doubt I would be interested in a sexual relationship where the other person didn't share my love of force play.

Though just as an aside, that fantasy is common among women in general, not just sub women. I'd be curious to know how many dominant women have that fantasy though.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

It was ok for him to beat me but then he tried to cuddle me! - Me

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(in reply to compassionatedad)

Post #: 2

RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/12/2008 1:54:48 PM

softness

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I think it depends very much on the nature of ahte relationship. I can only speak for my own, am sure others will have different takes on it.

DV's limits will always be far beyond mine. I very much doubt that anything I might desire would squick Him, or be seen by Him as too edgy. There are several things however that at this time He has clearly stated are not going to happen, in some cases because He has no desire to do them, and in others because He is not prepared to have me do them. I like that He is protective of me, and possessive of His property. I can imagine that some of the things I might dream about, He would never allow into reality because they would be too dangerous, but then neither would I ask for them in reality.

I have entered into the relationship full in the knowledge that His desires and His interests are served, not mine. Hopefully we are matched in that by serving His desires and interests, mine are also served in the process. I expect a degree of sacrifice, in fact I want to feel that I am making sacrifices. If however the price I was paying for being in the relationship was greater than the value of being in it, I doubt I would stay for long.

The individual limits that my Owner places upon me are unlikely to cause me to leave, though we have discussed how a relationship that was limiting in nature, one that prevented my growth, curtailed my exploration would make me deeply unhappy.

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(in reply to compassionatedad)

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RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/12/2008 2:01:28 PM

NuevaVida

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quote:

ORIGINAL: compassionatedad
So the ultimate question is... Can the sub be content in a relationship if they have to abandon their strongly held fantasy due to the fact that their Dom/me has a hard limit on the same subject? Will the Dom/me's limit ultimately lead to a failure in the relationship somewhere else? I ask for the sub's opinion on this point.

In my case, I had several fantasies that were beyond my former owner's limits. In a couple of the cases, he gave them a lot of consideration, and decided to embark on them. They worked out wonderfully and we both grew from them. In other cases, he opted not to do them, as he would either find unfulfilling for himself, or they were beyond what felt good about doing.

Sexual activities was only one aspect of the relationship, and certainly not the foundation of it. I remained happy and fulfilled whatever his decision was, because my goal and intention was always to please him. Sure, I may have wanted to do certain things, but not as much as I wanted to serve and please him, so going without was really not that big of deal in the bigger picture of things.

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RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/12/2008 2:30:02 PM

akisha

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quote:

ORIGINAL: compassionatedad

A thread in another forum here caught my attention and made me consider the question of whether I would be able to do anything to fulfill a sub's fantasy. The simple minded answer, is that a sub should have no expectation that their fantasies be fulfilled and that a Dom/me should be free to do just about anything the He/She wishes, but in my mind the question is more complex.

All the Dom's i've been with have actively wanted to know my fantasies so that they could help me realize them. Maybe i've just been lucky.

quote:

So the ultimate question is... Can the sub be content in a relationship if they have to abandon their strongly held fantasy due to the fact that their Dom/me has a hard limit on the same subject? Will the Dom/me's limit ultimately lead to a failure in the relationship somewhere else? I ask for the sub's opinion on this point.

If my fantasy was something i felt I absolutely needed to fullfil and it was a limit of a Dom's then that Dom would obviously not be compatible with me and would ergo not be my Dom.

The other choice is if you have a Dominant that is compatible in many areas but your fantasy is a limit for him or her then maybe they will be willing to let you live out the fantasy with someone else. Some are very open minded that way. But I think it would have alot to do with what the fantasy is and why it is a limit for them.

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RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/12/2008 3:29:13 PM

Shawn1066

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quote:

ORIGINAL: compassionatedad

So the ultimate question is... Can the sub be content in a relationship if they have to abandon their strongly held fantasy due to the fact that their Dom/me has a hard limit on the same subject? Will the Dom/me's limit ultimately lead to a failure in the relationship somewhere else? I ask for the sub's opinion on this point.

If somebody is so obsessed by a fantasy that they let it slowly destroy their relationship, then I'd think they have their priorities a touch messed up, personally. Lets say, for the sake of an example, that I have a huge fantasy involving me being dressed up as a French Maid 24/7. That is something that would, in fact, simply repulse my Owner.

If her not agreeing to this makes me want to pack my bags and leave, then I really didn't deserve to be with her in the first place.

DV's Fox

(in reply to compassionatedad)

Post #: 6

RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/12/2008 3:58:09 PM

IvyMorgan

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There was a thread about mismatched kinks, and I think my answer is going to be similar.

I've met subs who want gangbangs, but their doms don't want to be with other males, for example. The answer is to let the sub (or dom) fulfill their fantasy with another person, if the fantasy is so important to them. Communicate, maybe the fantasy isn't so important, maybe there's a middle gound that you can share, maybe there's a way to fulfill it that satisfies both of you... who knows?

If a relationship is going to break up over one unfulfilled fantasty, I'd question what it's foundations were.

I've just thought of something, me and "sir" are in a platonic relationship which (aside from no non platonic acts) has very few limits. One is I'm not allowed to cook for him. I knew this going in, and whilst I love to cook for people and watch them eat my food and say "yummy", I know it's never going to happen. I'm willing to sacrifice that bit of my enjoyment for other things I get out of the relationship. Just a thought. We make sacrifices, all the time, it's a give up vs rewards balance.

(in reply to Shawn1066)

Post #: 7

RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/12/2008 5:27:56 PM

StrongSpirit

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There is a difference between reality and fantasy. Some things turn you on in fantasy but the reality is ... not so nice. The idea of pain is a huge turn on for a lot of people that are not masochists. Similarly, many people love a good bank robbery story but never commit a crime.

This is part of the reason why some people think others are 'fake', not 'real', or 'posers'. They love to think/talk/read/pretend to do something but don't really want to do it. Note, this does not necessarily mean they are fake or a poser. It might just means they are into role-play. The difference between a poser and a role-player is that the role-player knows they don't really want to do it and also actively pretends to do it.

Your dom has a hard limit beyond what you want. If you have never tried it, then you don't really know that you want it. Ask yourself would role-playing help the situation? Perhaps you can get away with that. It will probably satisfy your Dom, and might satisfy you. Give it a shot before you reject it out of hand.

- Andrew

(in reply to IvyMorgan)

Post #: 8

RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/12/2008 6:00:12 PM

SimplyMichael

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Limits can change and so can fantasies. Rape for many men is hard because we are deeply ingrained it is an evil and cowardly act. Unfortunately the fantasy can be hot as hell but also risky. Allow time for the trust to build and for things to work out.

And yes, us Dom's DO have limits but even those can change with time.

(in reply to StrongSpirit)

Post #: 9

RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/13/2008 3:07:40 PM

DesFIP

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I have had interests in things he's not interested in and vice versa. Now if my all time favorite activity is something he can't ever do, or the other way around, then we wouldn't be compatible.

But if it's something she eventually wants to try, whenever the time is right, then that's different. In your case, I imagine you wouldn't mind putting on a pirate outfit, calling her wench and dragging her into your cabin - er bedroom as the case may be. Role play is one way to try something difficult on for size. So is giving her a safeword if while trying to overpower her she finds that it isn't actually something that feels as good in reality as it does in fantasy.

But everyone has hard limits, including doms. BTW I don't know where you got the idea that every single sub out there wants to engage in the most difficult of rape play, because it isn't true. Lots of us can only handle role play wearing costumes, or other play when we know it is our loving partner. Being abducted off a street, being raped by his friends etc is the most difficult and rare form of such play, not the most common.

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RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/14/2008 6:10:48 AM

gordie452000

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I hope I will always be able to fulfill my sub's fantasies. And if I can't, I know I will try. Now that doesn't mean I can. After all, everyone has limits.

By the same token, if she cannot fulfill mine, I hope that I will not have such a double standard as to expect it without at least some consideration on my part.

As a sub, however, it is usually her limits that will be pushed. Not mine. And I hope in either case that it will actually help us grow, as people both separately and together rather than forcing an end to the relationship.

(in reply to DesFIP)

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RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/14/2008 9:50:06 AM

Lynnxz

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Because most girls are silly, and don't realize that 'non consentual rape' is not all about the pretty pretty princess.

O.o

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RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/14/2008 9:56:42 AM

Leatherist

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I've met women who had things like that as a requirement-or they would have nothing to do with you. No guts-no glory-and they were quite serious.

< Message edited by Leatherist -- 8/14/2008 9:57:04 AM >

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RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/14/2008 10:04:54 AM

shadowcd

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I am always amazed at how some strong fantasy or kink simply fades away when someone I love and submit to tells me that it's not an interest and explains why. I wont deny I have fantasy of being raped, but I also have a fear and dread of putting a domme in a position that they are uncomfortable with and if they indicate to me that, that is something they don't want to explore I would not bring it up again. But I have a lot of other fantasies to replace it :) And so long as most of those are being fulfilled then I'm perfectly happy. I am also of the mind that most of my fantasy's once I have an emotional bond with someone their fantasies become my fantasies their desires become mine and those few things that may not work for them become less important to me.

An example of this is someone I met a few months ago where we clicked very well, had many kinks in common but one of my favourites (strap-ons) was a no go with her. I found it amazing how quickly I let it go and just embraced all the other aspects of things we shared. I almost viewed that in it self a kink, letting go of a strong fantasy to please her. Kinks and fantasies I can work with so long as they don't ask me to give up that which I view as essential to my persona such as crossdressing :) Everything else is negotiable so long as that emotional bond is established :)
At least from my point of view.

(in reply to Lynnxz)

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RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/14/2008 10:06:10 AM

TwoNYCDommes

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan
me and "sir" are in a platonic relationship which (aside from no non platonic acts) has very few limits. One is I'm not allowed to cook for him. I knew this going in, and whilst I love to cook for people and watch them eat my food and say "yummy", I know it's never going to happen. I'm willing to sacrifice that bit of my enjoyment for other things I get out of the relationship.

Interesting limit. Will you share the reasons?

(in reply to IvyMorgan)

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RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/14/2008 10:38:08 AM

shadowcd

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Actually the no cooking thing isn't that unusual, I know several people that do not want people cooking for them. My nephew is like that actually he will not eat any food someone else cooks. which sucks for him cause he cant' cook haha. His reasons are pretty much he thinks people are dirty and doesn't want anyone but either himself or a professional cook touching his food. Howard Hughes was also like this I think there is an actual term for it but I'm not sure what it is.

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RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/14/2008 12:43:52 PM

quickened

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quote:

Rape for many men is hard because we are deeply ingrained it is an evil and cowardly act. Unfortunately the fantasy can be hot as hell but also risky.

"What they love to yield they would rather have stolen. Rough seduction delights them, the boldness of near rape is a compliment." ~Author: Ovid~
Time and trust, i agree with simply Michael. Stepping fully into the consicouness of risky fantasies requires care and connection. I appreciate learning more about the variety of dominant expereince and attitudes expressed here.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

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RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/14/2008 8:14:05 PM

EmlyKate

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This is a topic that has come up several times between Himself and I.... I've a few fantasies (that honestly, I'm not sure should ever become reality) that he is not particularly comfortable with. We've discussed them to death, our viewpoints, the areas of concern, his limits, mine... we've come to an understanding that the relationship is more important to us than my fantasy is to me, and that any movement he desires to take in that direction will be appreciated, but is in no way expected by me. I know that it is his desire to keep me safe... from others, from myself, and from error or accident.

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Emlykate

~~~~ Insert Something Witty, Profound or Insightful Here ~~~~

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RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/15/2008 2:13:06 AM

RavenMuse

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Where My girl has an interest or fantasy that IMO isn't harmful to her, but I have no interest in it then I may give permission for her to indulge that with someone *I* trust in that aspect of play. Eg. needle play, I have no interest in such but I know a number of skilled people here on the London scene. At some point My girl will be doing needles with one of those.

Where My girl has an interest or fantasy that IMO *IS* harmful to her, tough it isn't going to happen so long as she is Mine. That is My call, My decision, it is non-negotable and she will submit. her safety is MY remit, end of!

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to compassionatedad)

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RE: sub's Fantasy; Dom's Limit - 8/15/2008 3:59:31 AM

IvyMorgan

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From: Midlands, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TwoNYCDommes

quote:

ORIGINAL: IvyMorgan
me and "sir" are in a platonic relationship which (aside from no non platonic acts) has very few limits. One is I'm not allowed to cook for him. I knew this going in, and whilst I love to cook for people and watch them eat my food and say "yummy", I know it's never going to happen. I'm willing to sacrifice that bit of my enjoyment for other things I get out of the relationship.

Interesting limit. Will you share the reasons?

Sure (sorry it took me so long, I got distracted with shiny arguments over in GenBDSM)

His wife is very proud of her cooking (she is very good) and that is something she wants to keep as special for the two of them.

(in reply to TwoNYCDommes)

Post #: 20

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