RE: Those Evil Americans...

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popeye1250 -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 11:38:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Because mantras are very personal, and because they get repetitive. And because under my heartless exterior, I care. Popeye, perhaps you'd like to make that quote into your signature line? That would work :-) . KittinSol, if you "care" so much then go find your checkbook. Just stay away from mine. I "care" too, but I "care" about people in the U.S.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 11:42:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Because mantras are very personal, and because they get repetitive. And because under my heartless exterior, I care. So does Popeye. Your point is....????

kittinSol -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 11:49:11 AM)
Jeesh. A sense of humour bypass!

thishereboi -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 11:53:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: servantforuse Where are the 'hate America' liberals when you need them??? Give them time, they will be here. [sm=alien.gif]

Vendaval -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 12:06:55 PM)
One non-profit American group that I recommend is the United Way - "United Way is a national network of nearly 1,300 local organizations..." "...that work to advance the common good by focusing on education, income and health. These are the building blocks for a good life: a quality education that leads to a stable job, enough income to support a family through retirement, and good health. United Way of America is the national organization dedicated to leading the United Way movement. Local United Ways create long-lasting community change by addressing the underlying causes of the most significant local issues. Common focus areas include helping children and youth achieve their potential, promoting financial stability and independence, and improving people’s health. Our goal is to create long-lasting changes by addressing the underlying causes of problems. It takes everyone in the community working together to create a brighter future. So we bring together people from all across the community–government, business, faith groups, nonprofits, the labor movement, ordinary citizens–to tackle the issues. Because we all win when a child succeeds in school, when a family becomes financially stable, when people have good health." http://www.liveunited.org/about/ And one international aid organization that I recommend is Doctors Without Borders - History and Principles Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières (MSF) is an international medical humanitarian organization created by doctors and journalists in France in 1971. Today, MSF provides aid in nearly 60 countries to people whose survival is threatened by violence, neglect, or catastrophe, primarily due to armed conflict, epidemics, malnutrition, exclusion from health care, or natural disasters. MSF provides independent, impartial assistance to those most in need. MSF reserves the right to speak out to bring attention to neglected crises, to challenge inadequacies or abuse of the aid system, and to advocate for improved medical treatments and protocols. In 1999, MSF received the Nobel Peace Prize. http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/aboutus/

cloudboy -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 2:01:30 PM)
This topic has to do with your subject line -- and its exactly what you expected. "So we are to ignore everything that occurred pre 2003 in regards to Iraq, as only Bush was acting on faulty intelligence? Also ignoring the extent of "diplomacy" and reports from the UN itself? Interesting. Public laws be damned." I never said that. I said there was no nexus between the Clinton Law and 2003. (This means cause and effect.) Its common knowledge, too, that the BUSH Whitehouse swept everything Clintonesque off its agenda, holding his policies in disdain. What you have done is find something in the past (the Clinton LAW) with no proximate connection to 2003. You know this yourself. ----- "Are you suggesting that the US has not been attacked, and has no foundation for its fears?" No, I said the US and Russian have different histories. What fits your statement above, though, was the IRAQ threat. We had not been attacked and our fears were unfounded. Its a textbook example of paranoia and our military industrial complex in motion. "I can only shake my head at the assertion of encouraging a nation to join NATO or even the UN should be grounds for aggression." What does "should" have to do with anything? In a fantasy world, your assumptions are correct. On fantasy island IRAQ unifies into a democracy after a US invasion. On fantasy island, Russia doesn't get twitchy over the US's involvement in Georgia and the prospect of it joining NATO. But, any idiot with even a cursory knowledge of Russia knows that's not the case. (Same goes with IRAQ, too.)

Thadius -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 2:16:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy I never said that. I said there was no nexus between the Clinton Law and 2003. (This means cause and effect.) Its common knowledge, too, that the BUSH Whitehouse swept everything Clintonesque off its agenda, holding his policies in disdain. What you have done is find something in the past (the Clinton LAW) with no proximate connection to 2003. You know this yourself. I see so public laws, and continuation of the same foreign policy are not linked. Gotcha. I am stating that the cause of the '98 law was Hussein and his policies... I would even suggest that the numerous UN resolutions show that the policy didn't change when Bush took office. quote: No, I said the US and Russian have different histories. What fits your statement above, though, was the IRAQ threat. We had not been attacked and our fears were unfounded. Its a textbook example of paranoia and our military industrial complex in motion. Those "unfounded" fears of Iraq, spanned more than the current administration, oh and were shared by other nations. Your claim that we were not attacked, is simply false, again I will point you to the numerous attacks on aircraft, during both Clinton and Bush presidencies. quote: What does "should" have to do with anything? In a fantasy world, your assumptions are correct. On fantasy island IRAQ unifies into a democracy after a US invasion. On fantasy island, Russia doesn't get twitchy over the US's involvement in Georgia and the prospect of it joining NATO. But, any idiot with even a cursory knowledge of Russia knows that's not the case. (Same goes with IRAQ, too.) So are you suggesting that we should expect the same sort of reaction when Ukraine is fast tracked into NATO? I know I am just a simple idiot that has no perspective or cursory knowledge of what is going on over there... Just like I don't understand that many nations are taking a back seat to this issue because of the ammount of oil they get from Russia... Humbled by the intellectual superiority of others, Thadius

meatcleaver -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 2:26:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy No, I said the US and Russian have different histories. What fits your statement above, though, was the IRAQ threat. We had not been attacked and our fears were unfounded. Its a textbook example of paranoia and our military industrial complex in motion. Those "unfounded" fears of Iraq, spanned more than the current administration, oh and were shared by other nations. Your claim that we were not attacked, is simply false, again I will point you to the numerous attacks on aircraft, during both Clinton and Bush presidencies. Er...hardly Brooklyn..er..more like Bagdad! What other nations believed Iraq was to be feared besides lapdog Britain which always reacts like the 51st state?

Thadius -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 2:34:18 PM)
I know there were only 2 votes for passage of the various resolutions... and Hans Blix was a puppet of the US.[8\|] http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/11/08/national/main528675.shtml

celticlord2112 -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 2:42:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy What you have done is find something in the past (the Clinton LAW) with no proximate connection to 2003. You know this yourself. A couple of things: 1. There is no such thing as a "Clinton law". Public Law 105-338 was passed by Congress and signed by President Clinton. It is US Law, and it codefies a point of US policy towards Iraq. The law was never repealed by Act of Congress, and so it was official US policy into the Bush Administration, regardless of Bush's opinion of Clinton Administration policies. 2. President Bush referred to the Iraqi Liberation Act in developing his case for action against Iraq. The Act was specifically cited in Joint Resolution 114 (Public Law 107-243), "Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002." Not only is there a proximate connection between the Iraqi Liberation Act of 1998 and Operation Iraqi Freedom, there is a DIRECT and EXPLICIT connection.

meatcleaver -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 2:49:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius I know there were only 2 votes for passage of the various resolutions... and Hans Blix was a puppet of the US.[8\|] http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/11/08/national/main528675.shtml The last time I heard Hans Blix on the subject he said none of the investgators thought Iraq had any WMD left and if they had been allowed to do their job they would have been able to have been reasonably sure Iraq hadn't. Blix said in his usual diplomatic language that he believes they weren't allowed to finish the job because on the mounting evidence the Bush administration feared they wouldn't find any WMDs. How many planes did the Iraqis shoot down in the ten years since the first war? None! That is how capable they were of attacking US forces.

Thadius -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 2:57:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius I know there were only 2 votes for passage of the various resolutions... and Hans Blix was a puppet of the US.[8\|] http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/11/08/national/main528675.shtml The last time I heard Hans Blix on the subject he said none of the investgators thought Iraq had any WMD left and if they had been allowed to do their job they would have been able to have been reasonably sure Iraq hadn't. Blix said in his usual diplomatic language that he believes they weren't allowed to finish the job because on the mounting evidence the Bush administration feared they wouldn't find any WMDs. How many planes did the Iraqis shoot down in the ten years since the first war? None! That is how capable they were of attacking US forces. When did he make that statement? Seems to me it was after the start of the war. Why was his last report to the UN basicly a condemnation of Iraq? I do appreciate the spin attempt though, Bush is the one that had been lying to the UN about WMD since the end of the first trip to the sand box. If I am wrong about what you are implying, please clarify. To answer your last question, does it matter if any were shot down? IF you are going to fire upon an aircraft, you have already shown intent, regardless of the outcome. Oh and what were the reasons for all of the bombs and missiles expended in Iraq during the '90s? I agreed with his use of them then, and I agree with why and when we went into Iraq this time. I think it was about 8 years over due, to be honest. The evil warmonger, Thadius

meatcleaver -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 3:05:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius To answer your last question, does it matter if any were shot down? IF you are going to fire upon an aircraft, you have already shown intent, regardless of the outcome. Oh and what were the reasons for all of the bombs and missiles expended in Iraq during the '90s? I agreed with his use of them then, and I agree with why and when we went into Iraq this time. I think it was about 8 years over due, to be honest. The evil warmonger, Thadius I know a British General said before Blair shut him up, Saddam was harmless. Even father Bush said Saddam was just an irritant and not dangerous. He was just a tin pot dictator that held absolutely no threat to the US. Toppling him certainly wasn't worth the price of 100,000 dead and 2 million refugees. The intent was a harmless tantrum and everyone knows it.

Thadius -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 3:09:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius To answer your last question, does it matter if any were shot down? IF you are going to fire upon an aircraft, you have already shown intent, regardless of the outcome. Oh and what were the reasons for all of the bombs and missiles expended in Iraq during the '90s? I agreed with his use of them then, and I agree with why and when we went into Iraq this time. I think it was about 8 years over due, to be honest. The evil warmonger, Thadius I know a British General said before Blair shut him up, Saddam was harmless. Even father Bush said Saddam was just an irritant and not dangerous. He was just a tin pot dictator that held absolutely no threat to the US. Toppling him certainly wasn't worth the price of 100,000 dead and 2 million refugees. The intent was a harmless tantrum and everyone knows it. How many were killed and became refugees between Mar '93 and Mar '03? I know apples and oranges.

meatcleaver -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 3:16:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius To answer your last question, does it matter if any were shot down? IF you are going to fire upon an aircraft, you have already shown intent, regardless of the outcome. Oh and what were the reasons for all of the bombs and missiles expended in Iraq during the '90s? I agreed with his use of them then, and I agree with why and when we went into Iraq this time. I think it was about 8 years over due, to be honest. The evil warmonger, Thadius I know a British General said before Blair shut him up, Saddam was harmless. Even father Bush said Saddam was just an irritant and not dangerous. He was just a tin pot dictator that held absolutely no threat to the US. Toppling him certainly wasn't worth the price of 100,000 dead and 2 million refugees. The intent was a harmless tantrum and everyone knows it. How many were killed and became refugees between Mar '93 and Mar '03? I know apples and oranges. Why would America be so worried about Iraqi refugees and not Congolese, Ethiopian, Burmese, Palestinian, Zimbabwean and all the other refugees? Oil?

Thadius -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 3:34:19 PM)
Are you now suggesting that the US hasn't attempted to do anything for any of those? I suppose the same question could be asked of every nation, eh?

meatcleaver -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 3:42:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius Are you now suggesting that the US hasn't attempted to do anything for any of those? I suppose the same question could be asked of every nation, eh? Not every nation invaded Iraq and America didn't invest in a 3 billion dollar war for them either but then they are not sitting on any vital resources.

kittinSol -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 3:46:53 PM)
The figure is at 3 trillion dollars for the little Iraq escapade. And they wonder that the money runs out [>:] . http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/07/AR2008030702846_pf.html

meatcleaver -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 3:49:42 PM)
I stand corrected. If Bush realy cared about refugees he wouldn't have gone to war but invested that money in their futures. Ah, now there's a day dream.[:D]

kittinSol -> RE: Those Evil Americans... (8/14/2008 3:52:07 PM)
Not to worry, what's a few billions between friends?

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