RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (Full Version)

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Alumbrado -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/14/2008 5:42:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

Do you have any illumination to bring to the points raised in her blog?

Are her facts in error? 

What refutations do you offer?



Her facts? That Obama forged his birth certificate?  
[sm=rofl.gif]


Your rhetoric and sources have been refuted repeatedly for a long time now, from your denial of Tuskegee, and your many debunked claims about Obama, Wright, and black people in general...and all you have ever offered up when backed into a corner is running away with a *chuckle*.

Don't think for a second that piling on more anile whining about your obsession entitles you to demand anything. 

You want to back up these fringies you keep parroting, it is up to you to provide evidence... that would mean accepting responsibility for what you are claiming... that whole 'mean what you say and say what you mean' thing...which of course, isn't your 'style' is it? 





celticlord2112 -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/14/2008 5:58:05 PM)

That's a lot of words to just say "No."




PuckSR -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/14/2008 6:03:56 PM)

I guess referencing an unbiased source like FactCheck would be pointless right now?




slvemike4u -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/14/2008 6:18:50 PM)

Amongst this crowd...in a word ...yup




kittinSol -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/14/2008 6:23:16 PM)

Hey [:-]!




NumberSix -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/14/2008 6:23:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

That's a lot of words to just say "No."


He didn't say "No. "  He intimated that the comments in her blog are not facts, and since you have introduced them into 'evidence'  the burden of the proof of their veracity pretty much lies with you, and this is me talking now, you cant prove or disprove that Bozo the clown has a big nose.

It is OpEd, and poorly constructed at that, not worth a breath.

6  




NumberSix -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/14/2008 6:31:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PuckSR

I guess referencing an unbiased source like FactCheck would be pointless right now?


Puck; you mark my words, you will be forever relegated to some mid-sdummer nights dream if you semi-quote fact.

These arguments deal in off the shelf sophisms, and will not brook a fact.

Wm. Shakespeare




bipolarber -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/14/2008 7:59:02 PM)

PuckSR,

I've tried using fact check.org here...  sorry, but honest websites don't carry much weight with people who are card carrying members of the "Bush Youth."




Thadius -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/14/2008 10:01:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

PuckSR,

I've tried using fact check.org here...  sorry, but honest websites don't carry much weight with people who are card carrying members of the "Bush Youth."


Uhm, are you being completely honest with that statement?  You have linked to factcheck 1 time, and I could probably count on one hand when you actually provide a link to stats or "facts" that you include in your posts...

I do appreciate yet another comparision to being part of the Nazi movement, impressively done.




caitlyn -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/14/2008 11:14:48 PM)

At least Senator Obama is able to bring some money in to the country for a change. [;)]




Owner59 -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/14/2008 11:16:55 PM)

Just a few.

Great site,btw.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_a_maureen_dowd_column_cast_suspicion.html


That was a good one,caitlyn.




Alumbrado -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/15/2008 4:51:12 AM)

Buuu...buuu...buuu...buuut CL's source has a space ship and an Asteroid Shield and a utopian island....well.... is going to have them...

Surely you aren't going to take some wild claim from factcheck.org over that are you?[:D]




celticlord2112 -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/15/2008 5:45:58 AM)

you are welcome to offer up refutation if you have any to offer.

you are welcome to offer up reasoned discourse and debate if you have any to offer.

Have you any to offer?




Thadius -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/15/2008 6:15:36 AM)

I am not going to say that there is a bias to factcheck, because I believe that much of what they do is for the betterment of the country.  However, one must also remember the ties it has to certain folks, and weigh the information against that.  Factcheck is owned by the Annenberg Foundation, who has :
quote:


At its founding, the Annenberg Challenge was made up:
The Chicago School Reform Collaborative, co-chaired by William Ayers,
a Board of Directors initially recruited by the Collaborative, which was chaired from 1995 to 2000 by Barrak Obama, who was a practicing attorney at the time.


As many around here are apt to point out, sometimes you have to follow the money.  This DOESN"T mean that what they post is not accurate, it just means that I try to find a second source that agrees with them when it comes to do with certain people that were receiving money from them.  They have been pretty damn fair and on point in most of their posts.




OrionTheWolf -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/15/2008 7:18:12 AM)

Works for both sides. I offered info from factcheck.org about Obama accepting money from friends and family of oil companies in another thread, and everyone just breezed past that as well. The ping pong ball goes between the left and the right.


quote:

ORIGINAL: bipolarber

PuckSR,

I've tried using fact check.org here...  sorry, but honest websites don't carry much weight with people who are card carrying members of the "Bush Youth."




celticlord2112 -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/15/2008 7:42:31 AM)

Interestingly enough, no one has spoken to the first paragraph of the article I linked in my OP:
quote:

I have been researching, documenting and studying thousands upon thousands of Obama's campaign donations for the past month. Egregious abuse was immediately evident and I published the results of my ongoing investigation. Each subsequent post built a more damning case against Obama's illegal contribution activity.

The author's assertion is that she has looked at primary materials detailing Obama's campaign contributions.

This statement can be either true or it can be false.  There is not a third alternative.

The author must either be telling the truth or she must be telling a lie.  There is not a third alternative.

Factcheck.org does not have, so far as I can determine, an article which addresses the particular issues raised by the author.  Nor does Snopes.com (which is generally quite useful for debunking urban legends).  At this time, those sites do not speak to these issues.

The $33,500 figure has been reported on Washington Wire, a blogging site by reporters of the Wall Street Journal.  The posting author there, Glenn R. Simpson, is verifiably an award-winning journalist for the Wall Street Journal.  Regardless of Ms Geller's "kookiness", the incident she details can be independently verified.

Her other Obama blog entries include scans of documents she presents as letters from the Federal Election Commission to the Obama campaign detailing various shortcomings in their contribution reporting, as well as the Obama campaigns responses.  If these letters are genuine, they document repeated requests by the FEC for information regarding contributions to the Obama campaign that appear to be in excess of statutory limits.  If these letters are not genuine, they are outright forgeries and the author is perpetrating a fraud by their dissemination.  These are primary source documents, on what is presented as FEC letterhead--as with her opening assertion, they are either true or false, real or genuine.  There is not a third alternative.

The Federal Election Commission's own web site shows Obama's campaign not having recorded employer information for most of the millions of contributions that have been received--keep in mind that by law once a person contributes more than $200 to a candidate during an election cycle, employer and other identifying information must be reported to the FEC.  Some of the "employers" listed in Obama's reports published online by the FEC read like street addresses--if those entries are in fact street addresses and not business names, that is an error in the report itself, even if the related contributions are themselves made legally.  Such "technical errors" in the reports themselves would raise a valid credibility question about the reports as a whole, and, were one to audit the reports along with the underlying accounting processes, the presence of such inaccuracies would be cause for a more thorough scrutiny of the supporting records and documentation--which the purported letters from the FEC to the Obama campaign which the author posts in her blog show taking place.

Regardless of the "kookiness" of the messenger, these are factual assertions.  They are either true or false.  Her primary materials are either legitimate or forgeries, making her blog either an honest report or a damned lie and vicious fraud.  It is one or the other.  There is no middle ground.

Is it a damned lie?




Owner59 -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/15/2008 8:43:10 AM)

 
This guys denies the Tuskegee experiments?!?!!

I missed that fun time.....I`ll have to read back.

Now, it all makes sence.




philosophy -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/15/2008 9:00:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

The author's assertion is that she has looked at primary materials detailing Obama's campaign contributions.

This statement can be either true or it can be false.  There is not a third alternative.

The author must either be telling the truth or she must be telling a lie.  There is not a third alternative.



.....piss poor logic CL. There is a third alternative. The author may have partially done the research. They may have researched some areas thoroughly and some less so.
Life is not digital, as you seem to imply, it is analogue.




celticlord2112 -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/15/2008 9:12:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Owner59


This guys denies the Tuskegee experiments?!?!!

I missed that fun time.....I`ll have to read back.

Now, it all makes sence.

Please do read back. I hope you do read back. I encourage you to read back.




celticlord2112 -> RE: Obama's Foreign Donors (8/15/2008 9:22:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

The author's assertion is that she has looked at primary materials detailing Obama's campaign contributions.

This statement can be either true or it can be false. There is not a third alternative.

The author must either be telling the truth or she must be telling a lie. There is not a third alternative.



.....piss poor logic CL. There is a third alternative. The author may have partially done the research. They may have researched some areas thoroughly and some less so.
Life is not digital, as you seem to imply, it is analogue.

Very sound logic. She has either looked at the material or she has not. The research was done or it was not. The quality of that research might be variable, the conclusions may or may not be valid, and the results of the research are subject to challenge, but whether the research was done can only be either/or.

A fact is either true or false. An assertion of fact is either true or false. There is not a third option.




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