RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives

RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (Full Version)

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CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 9:14:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DavidS8ist You left out DMs. Grownups needing - indeed wanting to have - playground attendents watching them so they don't get hurt! Talk about infantilizing things. Feh to the lot of it! Do it, own it, carry the weight. If folks are going to interact with adults, fuck with adults, do S&M with adults, then dammit, be an adult. Children need to be watched over, not grown ups. D. Age quod agis. I disagree here. I think that there -is- a place for the DM, just like there is a place for a referee in professional sports. People do dumb shit... yeah, there is a place for the DM. That being said, I think that there is far too much tendency, as humans, to interfere in others choices... and far too much tendency to blame our own decisions and screw ups on someone else, if we can find a way. I like risk. I like chaos... I also like having something in place in my own mind that says "Ok, this is where -your- boundary is... you cross that, you've set aside part of your humanity." That's something nobody else can do -for- someone. My thing is that a lot of people jump into stuff and just don't think at all. I think we need to have -more- forms of Natural Selection to weed the intentionally ignorant out of the gene pool... but then again, I'm a bitch. CFB Calla Firestorm Edited on account of I hit my mouse and clicked the 'ok' key before I was done.

RCdc -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 9:29:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: simpleplan2 You're right, but not having one doesn't keep them safe either. I'm with Lynnxz...why does it matter if somone wants a safe call? Or if someone doesn't? As long as no one is making you do something you don't want to, what's the difference? [I don't mean to sound condecending, I know that what I am about to say does - seriously, these are the most stupid thoughts anyone can think. Ok... so someone wants a safecall. Great. What does it matter? It matters if your the one on the end of that safe call. It matters if the person actually believes that the safe call will keep them safe. It matters that people come on here and read how to do safecalls, know the drill and use it to their advantage. You have a couple of safecalls, what then? Your still with this other person, your safecalls are all used up - then what? It 'matters' to inform people that safe calls DONT keep people safe. It's like wearing a flak jacket and walking into open combat thinking you are 'protected'. All the safe words in the world will NOT keep anyone safe from someone intent on doing harm. And safe words are only as good as the people using them. To nonchalantly say, so what if someone wants to use a safe word and just let them - cool for you. I would rather explain why they shouldn't be used alone and shouldn't be relied on ON THEIR OWN - coz baby - I'm like that.[;)] the.dark.

RCdc -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 9:36:08 AM)
I have to disagree with the sports referee analagy and matching it with DMs. Totally different kettle of fish. Referees are in associations and governing bodies. DMs answer to none but - you guessed it - the law - oh and the tax man. DMs are not there to protect people, they are there to make sure that the club they work for doesn't get closed down because it is reported for shit. That people attend because it gets good reports. and attracts the kind of people they want to attract. If you don't fit the criteria, you will get less feedback. The fact is, people attending clubs, groups etc shouldn;t be relying on DMs to be some kind of guardian angel who is gonna swoop in and 'rescue' them. People need to take the shit they get themselves into and learn from it, not be rescued time and again. It's polititcs. the.dark.

impishlilhellcat -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 9:42:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DarkVictory Go ahead, make your safe calls, make your dire warnings. Live in that fear. Me, I refuse. BDSM is scary, dark, and passionate... when it's done right. How dare you try to kill that? Go on, take me out, I dare you. You can find me over here, in the dark corner... waiting. What about when not done right??? What about those that use and abuse the privilege of trust? Would you be the one dispensing advice saying you should have been more careful?

Lynnxz -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 9:51:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark Ok... so someone wants a safecall. Great. What does it matter? It matters if your the one on the end of that safe call. It matters if the person actually believes that the safe call will keep them safe. It matters that people come on here and read how to do safecalls, know the drill and use it to their advantage. You have a couple of safecalls, what then? Your still with this other person, your safecalls are all used up - then what? It 'matters' to inform people that safe calls DONT keep people safe. It's like wearing a flak jacket and walking into open combat thinking you are 'protected'. All the safe words in the world will NOT keep anyone safe from someone intent on doing harm. And safe words are only as good as the people using them. To nonchalantly say, so what if someone wants to use a safe word and just let them - cool for you. I would rather explain why they shouldn't be used alone and shouldn't be relied on ON THEIR OWN - coz baby - I'm like that.[;)] the.dark. True, a safecall isn't going to be the end-all safety belt for me if someone decides they want to try something stupid, but I see it as being a lot better than nothing. It's like the flak Jacket, it may not protect you from the RPG, but it's going to help against some little stuff

RCdc -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 9:56:11 AM)
OK - then what little stuff? the.dark.

Maxwell67 -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 10:02:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark OK - then what little stuff? the.dark. It will help the police to detemine a centerpoint for when it is time to start searching for the body.. that sort of little stuff. Hey, it can't hurt.

Lynnxz -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 10:02:48 AM)
quote: OK - then what little stuff? the.dark. I've only had a safecall go through once, when a client was being a little whore, and complaining about "Just five more minutes, just five more minutes!" when I was tied up and refusing to let me out- he was scheduled for an hour, my safecall guys know to contact me 15 minutes past the hour. I didn't stress about it, just let Miguel come crashing through the door waving a pistol around, shouting "WHAT THE FK IS ALL THIS ST!" For the record, he came through the door at exactly 16 minutes past the hour. <3 And his timeliness is exactly what I pay him 50 an hour for. Now, if this guy had decided to poke my eyes out halfway though the session, there's not too much I could do about it. However, I'm an adult, and it's a risk that I take, and I'm perfectly fine with it. I've also had clients get upset when they realize that I have a driver, or a safecall. These are the sessions that get canceled- haha. I don't have an impermeable bubble around me, but there's some barbed wire, and it helps.

impishlilhellcat -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 10:10:19 AM)
I personally don't think safecalls are entirely helpful (just my opinion), but if someone should chose to use them I think it's their decision and it should be honored and not ridiculed. I have a friend that went to meet and spend time with a Dominant she had met off collarme. They had been talking and communicating for a year. She was in Michigan and he was in KY. She did everything correct; background check, continual safecalls etc She had her own hotel room... They negotiated limits what was hard what was soft and set up a safeword. She called to check in with her safecalls on the second day and then they proceeded to play. He strapped her to a cross and then proceeded to beat the crap out her till she was black and blue, couldn't walk, and ignoring the safeword repeatedly. She had already checked in with her safecalls and hadn't planned to do so until sometime later. There was nothing that could be done when she was strapped upon that cross.

simpleplan2 -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 10:12:45 AM)
I agree that safe calls aren't the be all and end all, but not having one wouldn't have helped her either. Unless you think that safe calls honestly provide a false sense of security (which I don't) then there's no harm in them.

hopelessfool -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 10:19:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Maxwell67 quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark OK - then what little stuff? the.dark. It will help the police to detemine a centerpoint for when it is time to start searching for the body.. that sort of little stuff. Hey, it can't hurt. Many phones have a GPS now a days that you cant turn off... it gives people who are tracking the lost bodies of people a place to start... I made the call to this person at this time... it came from these three towers meaning I was in this mile area. the signal was moving and bounced off this tower so it give the cops and idea to go west instead of north. maybe Im a weirdo, I dont use safe calls as much as I do safe hey I was here come get my dead body calls. Ususally a short 20 second call to my voice mail, or to my home number. My friends know If Im (not) where i should be Im probably dead in a ditch call the cell, If its dead call the person Im with... If theres no answer call my mom, ask if shes seen me or how long i was supposed to be gone, If no, or longer gone then expected... call 911 explain Im an idiot that dates on the internet and im probably dead... and if they get a chance to look for me...

impishlilhellcat -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 10:23:26 AM)
I'm not against safecalls I just think like you said they aren't the end all be all. They can be helpful, but in some cases they aren't.

RCdc -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 10:25:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Maxwell67 quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark OK - then what little stuff? the.dark. It will help the police to detemine a centerpoint for when it is time to start searching for the body.. that sort of little stuff. Hey, it can't hurt. Ok... I can accept that.[:D] the.dark.

RCdc -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 10:28:16 AM)
Lynnxz I can appriciate that for you they work ok, although you have to admit your experience and situation isn't the 'normal' BDSM interactions that are going to be brought up here and you have admitted that you pay for the guy to do this. That is protection, not a safe call. I don't believe that how you use the safe call is how the majority of people who do, is the same. the.dark.

DavidS8ist -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 10:28:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: impishlilhellcat I personally don't think safecalls are entirely helpful (just my opinion), but if someone should chose to use them I think it's their decision and it should be honored and not ridiculed. I have a friend that went to meet and spend time with a Dominant she had met off collarme. They had been talking and communicating for a year. She was in Michigan and he was in KY. She did everything correct; background check, continual safecalls etc She had her own hotel room... They negotiated limits what was hard what was soft and set up a safeword. She called to check in with her safecalls on the second day and then they proceeded to play. He strapped her to a cross and then proceeded to beat the crap out her till she was black and blue, couldn't walk, and ignoring the safeword repeatedly. She had already checked in with her safecalls and hadn't planned to do so until sometime later. There was nothing that could be done when she was strapped upon that cross. Not trying to be argumentative here, but did you actually read what you posted. In the first paragraph, you argue that safe calls are fine to use if people want to, and in the second, you present a case where safe calls were used , yet harm followed. Again, just like safe words they only protect folks from those from whom they don't need protection, people who are not going to go full tilt like the Eveready bunny, who are not insane egoists or predators. Someone intent on harming, or so enthralled with his "domliness", is going to have at you despite the safe call, despite the safe word. Arguing for people's right to use them as a real method of safety is like arguing for folks to keep chanting "SSC is good for me" as a way to keep from being beaten by to death by a predator. Worse, they instill a mindset that there's some codification of what safe words and safe calls represent, and by implication mean that otherwise mature, intelligent adults can set aside common sense and personal responsibility because the sanctity of "SAFE" will protect them. It's a bunch of male bovine excrement. D.

Madame4a -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 10:31:14 AM)
Actually, more often than not, DMs are around to protect the venue, the party giver, or the facility. Its really about enforcing the dungeon rules, rather than making anyone safe. Its about making sure people don't do things that are illegal and get the place shut down. Yes, often people say its about safety, but really.. its hardly about safety other than for the facility owner. And besides.. half or more of the DMs I've come in contact with wouldn't know 'safe' if it hit them in the face... I've been stopped or spoken too.. or had eye brows raised more times than I can count by DMs.. only to have other DMs or the owner of the place or someone who knows me wave them off... what is 'safe' is highly subjective

RCdc -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 10:32:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: simpleplan2 I agree that safe calls aren't the be all and end all, but not having one wouldn't have helped her either. Unless you think that safe calls honestly provide a false sense of security (which I don't) then there's no harm in them. Have you read many posts? Have you interacted much with extremely new peeps? Particularly those who's only avenue for this is the internet because they haven't got the ability, desire or be brave enough to attend a public event yet? Who have no family, no friends that they can turn to? I absolutely believe that when people type out on here 'use a safe call' like it is some kind of mantra, I absolutely without a doubt believe they provide a false sense of security and remove the responsibility of common sense. the.dark.

leakylee -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 10:32:21 AM)
you know the only time i really ever got 'screwed up' was following all the safety features. i much prefer going by my gut. if there is a click and the chemistry is there. why not? yes i do put a safe call in place (mostly to make other people to feel better, and to speed up the identification process) when i have been talking to someone for 4 days and invite them to my home. lee

Lynnxz -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 10:33:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark Lynnxz I can appriciate that for you they work ok, although you have to admit your experience and situation isn't the 'normal' BDSM interactions that are going to be brought up here and you have admitted that you pay for the guy to do this. That is protection, not a safe call. I don't believe that how you use the safe call is how the majority of people who do, is the same. the.dark. You can't think of ANYONE who wouldn't come crashing though a door to save you if you got in a tight spot?! Jesus! No wonder people don't like safe calls, they have grandma answering the phone! A safe call isn't a guarentee I'm not going to get stabbed, it's just a seat belt of sorts. By the way, there isn't too much difference in meeting clients off the internet, and meeting some dude for kinky stuff off the internet for free. O.o

impishlilhellcat -> RE: Safe calls, Negotiation, Safe Doms, and properly mentored submissives (8/15/2008 10:34:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DavidS8ist quote: ORIGINAL: impishlilhellcat I personally don't think safecalls are entirely helpful (just my opinion), but if someone should chose to use them I think it's their decision and it should be honored and not ridiculed. I have a friend that went to meet and spend time with a Dominant she had met off collarme. They had been talking and communicating for a year. She was in Michigan and he was in KY. She did everything correct; background check, continual safecalls etc She had her own hotel room... They negotiated limits what was hard what was soft and set up a safeword. She called to check in with her safecalls on the second day and then they proceeded to play. He strapped her to a cross and then proceeded to beat the crap out her till she was black and blue, couldn't walk, and ignoring the safeword repeatedly. She had already checked in with her safecalls and hadn't planned to do so until sometime later. There was nothing that could be done when she was strapped upon that cross. Not trying to be argumentative here, but did you actually read what you posted. In the first paragraph, you argue that safe calls are fine to use if people want to, and in the second, you present a case where safe calls were used , yet harm followed. Again, just like safe words they only protect folks from those from whom they don't need protection, people who are not going to go full tilt like the Eveready bunny, who are not insane egoists or predators. Someone intent on harming, or so enthralled with his "domliness", is going to have at you despite the safe call, despite the safe word. Arguing for people's right to use them as a real method of safety is like arguing for folks to keep chanting "SSC is good for me" as a way to keep from being beaten by to death by a predator. Worse, they instill a mindset that there's some codification of what safe words and safe calls represent, and by implication mean that otherwise mature, intelligent adults can set aside common sense and personal responsibility because the sanctity of "SAFE" will protect them. It's a bunch of male bovine excrement. D. Yes I read what I wrote and I didn't argue for them I said I don't think they are entirely helpful, but should someone CHOOSE to use them they should be honored not ridiculed. I.E. not my cup of tea don't use them, but to each their own. Did you read my post?

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