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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 12:32:58 PM   
RealityLicks


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
lets face facts if Russia returns to her old ways,and allowing this to go unchecked will have that effect,Europe will have more to worry about than the US will with a reconstituted Russian Empire on its borders...


Mike, are you listening to yourself?  Where is the evidence of a Russian Empire forming?  They seem quite nervous at the prospect of Nato siting missiles on their borders, beneath the rhetoric.

I'm quite relaxed about Russia's intentions - what are they going to do?  Invade? 

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 12:34:44 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Obviously their wanting to join NATO, was an aggressive act, designed to overthrow Moscow.


No, attacking Russian peacekeepers and civilians in S.Ossetia, killing - according to some reports - 1600 people, was the aggressive act.  What would your government do if 1600 US citizens were killed, even on foreign soil?

I do not deny that there may be an argument of a disproportionate counter-attack but it is just that - a counter-attack.
I keep hearing this charge repeated,yet the counter-charge that Putin was handing out Russian passports like they were condoms at a planned parenthood clinic seems to go unnoticed.Now if you would like to make a valid analogy perhaps you could have Cheney or Rice going into Mexico and handing out US passports to citizens of Tijuana and than invading in an effort to "protect" US. citizens.Now I am willing to concede I don't have all the facts,but at present the Russians on the face of it would seem to be the aggressor would they not...certainly any "protecting" of Russian citizens is no longer necessary and crtainly not a viable excuse to be in Georgia proper...Perhaps Cheney and Rice could have the marines in Mexico city to protect all those US citizens in Tijuana ?

< Message edited by slvemike4u -- 8/18/2008 12:36:40 PM >

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If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

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Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 12:38:16 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u
lets face facts if Russia returns to her old ways,and allowing this to go unchecked will have that effect,Europe will have more to worry about than the US will with a reconstituted Russian Empire on its borders...


Mike, are you listening to yourself?  Where is the evidence of a Russian Empire forming?  They seem quite nervous at the prospect of Nato siting missiles on their borders, beneath the rhetoric.

I'm quite relaxed about Russia's intentions - what are they going to do?  Invade? 


As you have been apt to point out, what could we do to prevent them from invading... Poland, Ukraine, Latvia... I didn't mention Georgia because they already have and basicly have the country divided down the middle east and west, and are now preventing western journalists from traveling in Georgia because they don't have Russian press credentials...

Are you suggesting that Russia is going to allow South Ossetia and Abkhazia to be free and sovereign nations after this conflict has ended?  What proof do you have of this, if any?

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 12:45:52 PM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		I shudder at this having to transfer everything into "equivalent" situations in an American context.  It's patronising to you to suggest you can't appreciate foreign history in an unadulterated form but if I must do it, I'll hold back for a moment. 

Remember that most of the recipients of those Russian passports had blood relatives living across in North Ossetia and that they had fought the Georgians to a standstill for their independence back in 91.

How would you feel if the British had won the American war of independence and simply refused to let the colonies go?

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 12:48:15 PM   
slvemike4u


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Status: offline 		And declaring that Poland by dint of their ageement with the US, over missile shield defence systems,has now made itself a target of Russian nuclear weapons.Yes Reality I am listening to myself,or you listenig to the increasingly bellicose statements from Moscow.I for one am and I beleive them..don't you?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 165
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 12:52:22 PM   
Thadius


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Status: offline 		I keep waiting for my favorite comedian to pop up and handle Moscow's press releases... Bagdad Bob.

"We have completely withdrawn all troops, the Americans are lying as they always do about such things.  If anybody has any doubts of this, we shall teach them to respect the words of Putin, Allah be praised."

Pardon the tongue in cheek remarks, but it needed to be said by me.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 12:56:55 PM   
RealityLicks


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Are you suggesting that Russia is going to allow South Ossetia and Abkhazia to be free and sovereign nations after this conflict has ended?  What proof do you have of this, if any?


Well, since a recent referendum showed 90% in favour of joining the Russian Federation and the passports mentioned above, it would seem South Ossetia will join with North Ossetia.  What a concept.

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 12:57:30 PM   
Sanity


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They've got so many Baghdad Bobs over here that they don't really need one over there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

I keep waiting for my favorite comedian to pop up and handle Moscow's press releases... Bagdad Bob.

"We have completely withdrawn all troops, the Americans are lying as they always do about such things.  If anybody has any doubts of this, we shall teach them to respect the words of Putin, Allah be praised."

Pardon the tongue in cheek remarks, but it needed to be said by me.


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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 1:00:25 PM   
RealityLicks


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And declaring that Poland by dint of their ageement with the US, over missile shield defence systems,has now made itself a target of Russian nuclear weapons.Yes Reality I am listening to myself,or you listenig to the increasingly bellicose statements from Moscow.I for one am and I beleive them..don't you?


If you mean the statements to the effect that these new missile sites will be targeted by Russia - so what?  I'd expect no less.  It's a sad day for countries which were formerly allies to have been brought to this by a distant land that is working its own agenda.

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 1:01:23 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Are you suggesting that Russia is going to allow South Ossetia and Abkhazia to be free and sovereign nations after this conflict has ended?  What proof do you have of this, if any?


Well, since a recent referendum showed 90% in favour of joining the Russian Federation and the passports mentioned above, it would seem South Ossetia will join with North Ossetia.  What a concept.


I haven't seen that referendum, would you provide a link for those of us interested? If it is something posted by the Russian media, please don't bother, as they are once again run and controlled by the government.  And how about Abkhazia, will they be allowed to rule themselves? 

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 1:03:16 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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"formerly allies"?

You're kidding, right?


quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks
If you mean the statements to the effect that these new missile sites will be targeted by Russia - so what?  I'd expect no less.  It's a sad day for countries which were formerly allies to have been brought to this by a distant land that is working its own agenda.


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RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 1:03:24 PM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

I shudder at this having to transfer everything into "equivalent" situations in an American context.  It's patronising to you to suggest you can't appreciate foreign history in an unadulterated form but if I must do it, I'll hold back for a moment. 

Remember that most of the recipients of those Russian passports had blood relatives living across in North Ossetia and that they had fought the Georgians to a standstill for their independence back in 91.

How would you feel if the British had won the American war of independence and simply refused to let the colonies go?
Reality you and Meatcleaver have repeatedly thrown this back to the hypothetical example of what would America do yada yada yada...so I granted you the hypothetical and tweaked it to a more analogous example...do you care to address that or just switch and bait with the conversation...It is your call,but please don't suggest that it is I being patronising..Apparently recent history is as challenging as WW2 history
Finally if Britain had won the American Revolutionary War (how this would have happened is beyond me)I guess like the rest of the "Empire" we would have by now wrested some form of autonomy...perhaps Commonwealth status...but again I have a problem with Your hypothetical as it does not meet the realism test...

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 172
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 1:07:09 PM   
Thadius


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Joined: 10/11/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And declaring that Poland by dint of their ageement with the US, over missile shield defence systems,has now made itself a target of Russian nuclear weapons.Yes Reality I am listening to myself,or you listenig to the increasingly bellicose statements from Moscow.I for one am and I beleive them..don't you?


If you mean the statements to the effect that these new missile sites will be targeted by Russia - so what?  I'd expect no less.  It's a sad day for countries which were formerly allies to have been brought to this by a distant land that is working its own agenda.


What koolaid are you drinking?  They didn't say targeted they said 100% chance of a strike.  Then you finish off with laying this at the feet of the US as well.



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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 1:12:54 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And declaring that Poland by dint of their ageement with the US, over missile shield defence systems,has now made itself a target of Russian nuclear weapons.Yes Reality I am listening to myself,or you listenig to the increasingly bellicose statements from Moscow.I for one am and I beleive them..don't you?


If you mean the statements to the effect that these new missile sites will be targeted by Russia - so what?  I'd expect no less.  It's a sad day for countries which were formerly allies to have been brought to this by a distant land that is working its own agenda.
Am i reading this right ,did you just refer to Russia and Poland as former allies...please enlighten me to this heretofore unremembered period of history you are now referring to....

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to RealityLicks)
Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 1:13:25 PM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		Nah, mate, my mine's a pint of London Pride.  As for the missiles: who else is putting them there?  The Easter Bunny?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

What koolaid are you drinking?  They didn't say targeted they said 100% chance of a strike.  Then you finish off with laying this at the feet of the US as well.



(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 1:14:04 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

And declaring that Poland by dint of their ageement with the US, over missile shield defence systems,has now made itself a target of Russian nuclear weapons.Yes Reality I am listening to myself,or you listenig to the increasingly bellicose statements from Moscow.I for one am and I beleive them..don't you?


If you mean the statements to the effect that these new missile sites will be targeted by Russia - so what?  I'd expect no less.  It's a sad day for countries which were formerly allies to have been brought to this by a distant land that is working its own agenda.


What koolaid are you drinking?  They didn't say targeted they said 100% chance of a strike.  Then you finish off with laying this at the feet of the US as well.


Koolaid my ass Thadius...Russia and poland allies?That is not koolaid!!!

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to Thadius)
Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 1:15:18 PM   
Thadius


Posts: 5091
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Status: offline 		Mike,  it was a Jim Jones reference

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Profile   Post #: 177
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 1:17:32 PM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Nah, mate, my mine's a pint of London Pride.  As for the missiles: who else is putting them there?  The Easter Bunny?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

What koolaid are you drinking?  They didn't say targeted they said 100% chance of a strike.  Then you finish off with laying this at the feet of the US as well.





There is a huge difference between targeting, and threatening a strike with the odds of 100%.  Does Russia think that those missiles are going to be fired in aggression?  See the difference?

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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Profile   Post #: 178
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 1:18:01 PM   
ModeratorEleven


Posts: 2007
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Status: offline 		Folks, please settle this down.

XI


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This mod goes to eleven.

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Profile   Post #: 179
RE: Russian responsoe to potential US missle sites in P... - 8/18/2008 1:20:27 PM   
RealityLicks


Posts: 1615
Joined: 10/23/2007
Status: offline 		I'm referring of course to the Warsaw Pact.  The perfect opportunity for more antiquated characterisation of Russians as moustachio-twirling bad hats.

Before the outpouring of predictable propaganda begins, please remember that none of it's new and try and keep it short.  I'll check back later to see if anything worth a response emerges.


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Profile   Post #: 180
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