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It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 9:30:52 AM

Thadius

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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/us/politics/17elect.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

quote:

These Democrats — 15 governors, members of Congress and state party leaders — say Mr. Obama has yet to convert his popularity among many Americans into solutions to crucial electoral challenges: showing ownership of an issue, like economic stewardship or national security; winning over supporters of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton; and minimizing his race and experience level as concerns for voters.

Mr. Obama has run for the last 18 months as the candidate of hope. Yet party leaders — while enthusiastic about Mr. Obama and his state-by-state campaign operations — say he must do more to convince the many undecided Democrats and independents that he would address their financial anxieties rather than run, by and large, as an agent of change — given that change, they note, is not an issue.

quote:

Or, in the blunter words of Gov. Phil Bredesen, Democrat of Tennessee: “Instead of giving big speeches at big stadiums, he needs to give straight-up 10-word answers to people at Wal-Mart about how he would improve their lives.”

Even the party regulars are worried about Obama not being specific enough in his message, and finally acknowledging that popularity fades if not based on substance. The first cracks in the Uniter's foundation are becoming bigger, even amongst folks that want to believe. Some even note the change in advertising tactics...

quote:

Moreover, the Obama campaign has started running negative advertisements against Mr. McCain in battleground states — often without announcing them beforehand.

This seems like it is clearly in opposition to what Obama claimed he would not do.

Can popularity alone carry him to the oval office, or should some weight be put into the fact that he has not been able to pull away from McCain in a year that should by all estimates favor Democrats?

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 9:42:51 AM

housesub4you

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I think race is playing a larger issue then most would care to admit to. Though it is not the sole issue he needs to get past. But he does need to take on an issue and drive it home and not worry that some won't approve, because as the saying goes "you can't please all the people all the time". But that is what everyone is trying to do and it is not working

As for the negative ads, it is the sign of the times. It has a proven track record and until the people start to ignore it, it will never go away. It's strange I never see ads here in Illinois from McCain or Obama, so I have to go dig them up on the internet.

(in reply to Thadius)

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 9:51:41 AM

pahunkboy

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Here is "my" plan. cut military industrial complex spending in half.

and 2;lower corporate tax - AND end one corp from absorbing a loss corp. so there would never be "losses"

3 seriously reform insurance and law in regards to product and medical liability.

4. send 80,000 of the lobiests up the the MUIR space station and let them argue with eachother. ps they wont be returning to the USA.

5. a bunch on wall street need to go to a real jail. [send chris hansen?(to bust em)]

< Message edited by pahunkboy -- 8/18/2008 9:56:57 AM >

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 10:22:08 AM

Thadius

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Illinois will go Dem regardless of who the candidate is, save a couple of exceptions, and thus there is no need to spend valuable advertising money there.

You might have a point about the latent racial preferences of some folks. That can't completely cancel out the ammount of new folks entering the voting ranks though.

If he wants to be successful in his bid, he is going to have to add more substance.

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 10:50:51 AM

Vendaval

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Senator Obama does need to solidify his positions on the issues in his speeches. The question and answer format of the past weekend was not quite what I was most interested in hearing, but they were each give a public stage to answer questions that matter to many voters.

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 12:47:10 PM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Senator Obama does need to solidify his positions on the issues in his speeches. The question and answer format of the past weekend was not quite what I was most interested in hearing, but they were each give a public stage to answer questions that matter to many voters.

Indeed, I still find it confusing how he answered the one question he had to know he was going to be asked. To answer that question with a "it's above my paygrade" seems to be the way he has gone about most of the campaign. Be vague that way you can't be held accountable when you change your position. Even though I know he is not going to change his position on that issue, as it is one of the issues that he has a definite record on.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 1:13:30 PM

sub4hire

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It's impossible to get to know them when they keep changing who they are to appease this group and that group.
Never the less Fox News is doing this special tonight and tomorrow. It may shed some insight into who the candidates actually are.

McCain and Obama: each wants your vote as they battle to be the next commander in chief -- but how much do you really know about them? FOX News Channel presents two one-hour specials taking an unprecedented look at the character and conduct of the men who would be president. The Obama special, hosted by Bill Hemmer, airs Monday, Aug. 18, at 8 p.m. EDT. The McCain special, hosted by Eric Shawn, airs Tuesday, Aug. 19, at 8 p.m. EDT.

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 2:59:36 PM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Be vague that way you can't be held accountable when you change your position.

Strange this should surprise anyone, as it's one of the a+b of politics: I don't see why Obama should be the exception. To get elected, you have to make concessions. It's the rule of the game: I bet you once he's in office, you won't have any more doubts about him :-). ]

A leader should have fortitude and strength of character, but he/she should also be able to do what it takes to convince the electorate of their appeal. The last leader of this country managed to do the latter without having former.

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 3:03:05 PM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

Be vague that way you can't be held accountable when you change your position.

Strange this should surprise anyone, as it's one of the a+b of politics: I don't see why Obama should be the exception. To get elected, you have to make concessions. It's the rule of the game: I bet you once he's in office, you won't have any more doubts about him :-). ]

A leader should have fortitude and strength of character, but he/she should also be able to do what it takes to convince the electorate of their appeal. The last leader of this country managed to do the latter without having former.

A leader should be able to convince people that the reason for doing something is in the best interest of the whole, it has nothing to do with convincing us of their appeal. That seems a very shallow thing to focus on, as opposed to the former things listed "fortitude and strength of character". I am not sure who you are referring to in your last sentence, are you referring to Clinton?

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 3:10:59 PM

Musicmystery

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I'm still wondering if Hillary will pull a stunt, pissed off that the crown she thinks she inherited was "stolen."

Obama has been ready for the predictable barrage from the Repulbicans. Ironic if he loses the election to a barrage from the Democrats, exactly in a year when they should sweep because of the Republican implosion.

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 3:15:34 PM

Thadius

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I have been saying that the entire time. I honestly believe Hillary is going to introduce a backdoor monkey wrench, so that she can run in 2012. That is if she doesn't have something planned for the convention, remember she only needs to flip a couple hundred delegates in the roll call vote.

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When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 3:19:54 PM

warmhearted4u

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I would bet my bottom dollar that Hillary has something planed for the convention in Denver. And I think that the Liberal Press will end up helping her more than they would like.

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 3:32:12 PM

housesub4you

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Yea well if she pulls something, I'll change my vote to McCain and leave the Dems for the Indepentants and I think a hell of a lot will do the same

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 3:45:38 PM

Musicmystery

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I'll be as pissed as anyone, but I don't see how Hillary's nonsense could justify voting in someone who presumably stands for all you don't.

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 5:06:13 PM

kittinSol

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Everything is PR, including the political threads on these boards. Even wars are sold with the use of public relations techniques. Needless to say, this phenomenon trickles into everything, including politics - it's nothing new: you must be aware that this is even more apparent during election times. You're another one of these people who's holding Obama up to a higher standard than any other candidate in history. Why, only you know

.

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 5:11:19 PM

Hippiekinkster

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'll be as pissed as anyone, but I don't see how Hillary's nonsense could justify voting in someone who presumably stands for all you don't.

I think that's called petulance. Kids do that, don't they?

Anyway, I'd loooove to see Obama pick Hillary as VP. Oh, wouldn't THAT be a powerhouse ticket? And she'd be guaranteed the nomination in 2016, if Obama gets a second term.

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 6:18:27 PM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Everything is PR, including the political threads on these boards. Even wars are sold with the use of public relations techniques. Needless to say, this phenomenon trickles into everything, including politics - it's nothing new: you must be aware that this is even more apparent during election times. You're another one of these people who's holding Obama up to a higher standard than any other candidate in history. Why, only you know .

That's an interesting generalization about what I believe or how I treat candidates. Where did you come to that conclussion? If asking for specifics is holding somebody to a higher standard, well I am definitely guilty, I hold all candidates to that standard. So what kind of person does that make me? I am curious as to what you mean by "one of these people".

I didn't realize we should just vote based on the glamour of the floor show, my mistake for expecting there to be substance behind who or what I vote for.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 6:25:19 PM

Thadius

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hippiekinkster

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I'll be as pissed as anyone, but I don't see how Hillary's nonsense could justify voting in someone who presumably stands for all you don't.

I think that's called petulance. Kids do that, don't they?

Anyway, I'd loooove to see Obama pick Hillary as VP. Oh, wouldn't THAT be a powerhouse ticket? And she'd be guaranteed the nomination in 2016, if Obama gets a second term.

He won't pick her, it is no secret that his wife despises the woman. Not only that, (being a little tongue in cheek here) if he did he may not make it through the first term, just think plane trip or park bench... Know what I mean.

I think his best bet would be somebody like Byah or Biden, or an outside shot like Gov. Kathleen Sebelius.

_____________________________

When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends." ~ Japanese Proverb

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 6:26:56 PM

Aileen1968

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Both candidates suck. They are both politicians and really don't give a shit about the everyday American.

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RE: It was bound to happen - 8/18/2008 6:28:35 PM

Owner59

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aileen1968

Both candidates suck. They are both politicians and really don't give a shit about the everyday American.

Well,you`re at least half right.

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