RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie?

RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (Full Version)

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MistressOfGa -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/20/2008 5:20:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus Tell him, MoGa! [:D] OK I just did <warning excessive dots ahead> ....................Now where's my money?????? Oh what the hell, might as well throw out the question marks while I am being excessive!!!! And the exclamation marks too.................???????????? !!!!!!!!! Somebody stop me!!??........

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/20/2008 5:20:12 PM)
See that goes back to what I said, that it's not a lie not to share everything on your mind at the moment your asked. Provided you didn't make up a story to answer the question and get out of an honest answer, and I do think very much people should have space to themselves to be able to answer a question in a non hurtful way. It saves unnessisary strife not to answer when your answer will be a pissy one. Now however if they asked what's wrong what's on your mind and you said oh nothing, when something realy big was on your mind or you found out they'd been sneaking out every monday night to go to some night club, and you answer instead, oh well I am worried about work that IS a lie. The previous I need time to be able to talk to you in a rational way is perfectly fine, the second option about lieing about what's on your mind isn't. [Quote]Like you, I value and strive for complete honesty in my personal relationships and in business and other relationships in general. This said, lets take the example you gave. So... I'm feeling extremely hurt about something my partner has done and she asks me what is on my mind. In the past, I would answer immediately and sometimes in poorly thought out, hurtful ways. This isn't necessary. Often, at the moment, a better answer is "I'm not able to answer right now, but I will tomorrow when I've had a chance to work through some feelings I'm having". On rare occasions, and I believe this happens to all of us, I'm not able to give my partner any answer that isn't in an inappropriate tone. Thus, I've learned to hold my tongue. You might call this lying. Perhaps it is. At any rate, it has been my experience that approaching my partner in a polite, courteous, loving way is far better than "letting it fly" in the moment. Ditto for partners who have "let it fly" at me. In as much as we can apologize and smooth things over afterward, hurtful words cause permanent damage. Therefore, I choose to avoid these types of conversations, sometimes by delaying information. It's much more productive to deal with issues when both my partner and I are diffused, rational, and able to communicate lovingly. Elan. [/quote]

MistressOfGa -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/20/2008 5:21:35 PM)
quote: Just for future reference... everyone keep their grubby mitts off my dots and dashes! grinz Calla Uh oh, dont read the post above this! lol

BlackPhx -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/20/2008 5:48:09 PM)
I have been reading both sides of this issue and have to ask...How do you know which is the lie and which is the truth? Oh sure you can catch someone in a lie and that makes it easy, but then again there are times you can't tell until they expose themselves. Example a spin off the Do I look Fat. Someone important to you tells you constantly that you are beautiful, that they love your body. They tell you this for several weeks, months, years whatever. You work hard at not gaining weight, at maintaining the exterior they fell in love/desire with and to lose a bit if you can. Then one day they tell you how much a part of your body disgusts them, or that you are too fat, even though you have gained nothing and have in fact lost a bit. Which was the lie? When did the first statement become the lie and how do you trust that person again when they say you are beautiful or look wonderful? How do you not measure everything they say from that point on against the hurt they have inflicted on you? I strive personally to never tell a lie, though I have when it was important to protect someone else, e.g. the boss who says to tell someone they are already on their way when they haven't left yet or have walked out of the room and told Masters mother I don't see him right now..technically the truth as I don't even though I know where he is, but there are times when it is better, trust me. But for me a lie is just too much trouble to remember, the truth is far easier. TACT on the other hand should never be forgotten, How you say something is just as important as what you say. One does not have to be blunt to tell the truth and shame the devil, one can say things with Tact and people will hear it, react to it and possibly even forgive you for it a lot faster than they will something said with no consideration for how it is going to harm the listener. A truth said shouldn't hurt the person you are saying it to. One does not have to be cruel to give constructive criticism, or tell someone the truth. poenkitten

Briena -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/20/2008 6:21:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan I don't deal well with lies, even "white" ones. The fastest way to earn yourself an express ticket out of my life, with extreme prejudice, is to lie to me. Omission counts. In my case, it is *never* acceptable to lie to me. I would rather hear unpleasant truth. I also do my best not to lie to others. I won't say I don't ever lie, but I work to tell as few as possible. Really? So when you were pregnant and super emotional and asked if you looked ok you would have rather been told that you looked beat after your last puke spell than be told you are beautiful? I know that when I was preggers and asked if I looked ok and I looked a little beat up, that if my hubby would have said I was haggard I would have cried HAHA! Back then I liked to hear the little white lies, and I would rather not know if they were truths or lies still to this day :D. Pregnant women aside, normally I dont tell white lies. I believe there are exceptions to that rule because nothing in life is black and white. When my friend was beaten by an ex, and her face was swollen I told her she still looked beautiful. A lie, she wasnt lookin so hot, but she had enough pain going on, and there was NO need to to hurt her feelings; even if she was fishing for compliments, she deserved them. Thats why I feel that there are always exceptions to the little white lie rule. If your little white lie isnt going to hurt anyones feelings then its ok, especially if it is going to boost someones self esteem. Ive had ugly friends that I have told look good in whatever, Im not going to be mean to them and say "dude your ugly so no matter what you wear youre going to be ugly"... Blah enough of my babble haha...

yourMissTress -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/20/2008 6:32:20 PM)
Really fast reply to title...NO

LadyPact -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/20/2008 6:45:17 PM)
No, it is not acceptable to lie. I would also like to add that certain matters are not permissible to omit either. Some things are too important not to mention.

MistressOfGa -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/20/2008 7:31:22 PM)
~FR~ But I want to address Lady Pact's words here.. quote: I would also like to add that certain matters are not permissible to omit either. Some things are too important not to mention. I told the mother of all lies to ..well..my mother. I am not proud of it but if I had to do it again, I would look right at her and lie again. There ARE times that I feel one should lie. I will tell you why I believe this. I have never been one to join in this type of thread because to me, it makes it too easy to pass judgments on those who say they wouldn't, or would, when given the right circumstances, it is amazing what one would do, or wouldn't do, to protect a loved one. When is it acceptable to lie? When there is someone holding you at knife point and asks if there is anyone else in the house? Tell me now you wouldn't lie? I would and did. But this isn't the lie I want to talk to y'all about. Yes, I have had my share of lying. Lying to save my own life as well as that of my sister's, but I digress. I took care of my brother when he was dying. I slept in his room on a love seat for 23 days, waiting for hiim to take his lasst breath with Hospice coming every other day bringing meds to keep him comfortable. My mother, who I cared for, for years, (before making the hardest decision to place her in a nursing home for fear of her burning my house down while I was at work) called on Christmas day and asked if I was going to come and visit her. I couldn't. I couldn't leave my brother, so I told her that I had a bad flu. My brother requested that I didn't tell her about how truly sick he was, so I didn't. My mother had Alzheimer's and constantly asked when I was coming to visit, even when I just saw her that afternoon. When my brother finally died on Jan. 23rd. (The day after a very good friend of mine died) I didn't have the heart to tell my mother. I couldn't. She would ask me the next day, is Paul coming to see me soon? And I would pat her hand and tell her, you remember mom, Paul has the flu. For a month before he died I said that. Then I got a call from the nursing home telling me that my mother was at the hospital for me to get there right away. I go and make the decision to put her in Hospice. I was still reeling from my brother's death. In fact, I had just returned from his funeral when I got the call about my mom. On her final day, a few days after goijng to Hospice, she says to me "Where is Paul?". I said the same thing I had been saying for weeks. He has the flu, mom, don't you remember? She died later that day..and all I could think of, was "Won't she be surprised to see him in Heaven?" She would know I lied and that I should have told her. Yes, I lied, to protect her. How would you like to hear each day that your only son has passed away? And have the same reaction every time you hear it? Is it ever acceptable to lie? Is it acceptable to kill, yourself or another? Is it acceptable to whore yourself out? What is acceptable and what isn't? Who are we to say? You would be surprised what is acceptable under extreme circumstances. So don't be so quick to answer this question, the life you save by lying about it, may be yours or someone's you love. Edited to fix typo..blah..

ServeMeInVA -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/20/2008 7:36:01 PM)
Thank you for a wonderful thread MistressofGeorgia. It is so easy to say you would never lie, much harder to actually live that way.

BlackPhx -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/20/2008 8:28:02 PM)
MoGa you are right and as I said under certain circumstances as in protecting someone else, I will lie. I still strive never to lie to someone, especially over anything that isn't critical. Saving a Life is critical. Life is rarely black and white though sometimes it seems like it should be. We make millions of minor decisions daily about telling the truth, even when all we are doing is deciding if the person needs to know or hear every thought that races through our heads. Sometimes the best answer to what your thinking about is...nothing really. Of course it also goes without saying don't ask questions you don't want to know the answer to. So..here's a question.. how many of those who refuse to ever tell a lie, have told a 5 year old there is no Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy? Are the only stories you read to children autobiographies and biographies? Afterall one of the meanings for fiction is something invented by the imagination or feigned, an assumption of a possibility as a fact irrespective of the question of its truth. What is fiction today, may be truth tomorrow. Everything is relative. Not all to long ago, the internet was nothing more than fiction and if you went back in time and told someone the truth about it and all the things you can do with it, they would call you the biggest liar since Baron Munchausen. poenkitten

Briena -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/20/2008 8:31:16 PM)
That was a thoughtful and amazing post MistressOfGa. Thank you for sharing that. Its as I said before, nothing in life is so black and white as we try to make it out to be.

Pyrrsefanie -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/20/2008 8:32:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlackPhx how many of those who refuse to ever tell a lie, have told a 5 year old there is no Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy? cough Me. Edited to add: He asked me point-blank, I wasn't going to freaking lie to the kid. Chances are if they're smart enough to ask, they've already got a suspicion. Shit, I wish my family had the same courtesy when I was a kid instead of letting me believe that garbage and getting my ass kicked from one side of the playground to the next for trying to defend Santa till I was in middle school.

azropedntied -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/20/2008 10:47:39 PM)
what do you mean there is NO santa ?No faeries , u know everytime you dont believe another dies .. the giant bunny thing nobody buys that one .Next thing ya know bigfoot will turn out to be a rubber gorrillas suit in a freezer and 2 hillbillies will get on tv for thier 5 mins of fame .

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/20/2008 10:55:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Briena quote: ORIGINAL: SylvereApLeanan I don't deal well with lies, even "white" ones. The fastest way to earn yourself an express ticket out of my life, with extreme prejudice, is to lie to me. Omission counts. In my case, it is *never* acceptable to lie to me. I would rather hear unpleasant truth. I also do my best not to lie to others. I won't say I don't ever lie, but I work to tell as few as possible. Really? So when you were pregnant and super emotional and asked if you looked ok you would have rather been told that you looked beat after your last puke spell than be told you are beautiful? You assume I ever asked that question. Your ASSumption is faulty and only serves to make you look foolish. Stop now, dear, while you're behind. But to answer your question, yes, I would rather be told the truth than a lie. Why is that so difficult to understand? My fiance has never once told me he thought I was anything other than beautiful. And he doesn't have to lie to do it. He will tell me when I don't look good in whatever I'm wearing and he will tell me when I look tired or ill. He doesn't stoop to false flattery. He doesn't have to. quote: Thats why I feel that there are always exceptions to the little white lie rule. If your little white lie isnt going to hurt anyones feelings then its ok, especially if it is going to boost someones self esteem. If you're comfortable with being a liar, feel free to stay far away from me.

Pyrrsefanie -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/20/2008 10:55:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: azropedntied No faeries , u know everytime you dont believe another dies .. Hey now, show me conclusive proof that faeries as a species do not exist and I'll change my tune, but I for one merely believe they have better things to do than pick up nasty grimy kiddie-teeth. [:D]

SylvereApLeanan -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/20/2008 11:05:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BlackPhx how many of those who refuse to ever tell a lie, have told a 5 year old there is no Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy? I never told him any of those things existed in the first place. He didn't grow up believing in them and didn't hear about them until he started public school. [&:] Today, he knows the difference between "real" and "pretend," including the difference between fictional shows and movies and real shows, like the news. (If you can call what passes for news "real" anymore.) He likes to pretend there's a Santa and I allow it. But he knows he's choosing to pretend rather than believing a lie. Next...

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/21/2008 12:23:10 AM)
He's not asking about lieing to someone who is a burgler an you're being asked if you're alone in the house, or is it ok to lie in extream situations he's asking about lieing in relationships. lying to strangers, or lying to save your life is NO where near comparable to lying to someone you're in a relationship with. Why are people trying to twist his question into some situation he wasn't talking about to justify ever having lied or being someone who may lie regularly . Throwing up all these senario's where lying is good and acceptable, even justifiable, ie a robber asking you something or a cop asking you something an you don't answer correctly or a stranger who doesn't deserve the answer, or you're lying to your mom to protect her feelings, is just a straw dog because it has NOTHING to do with the question, which was about lying in RELATIONSHIPS, not some random situation with a stranger or where your life is in danger or to your mom who couldn't handle the news of her sons death. quote: ORIGINAL: MistressOfGa ~FR~ But I want to address Lady Pact's words here.. quote: I would also like to add that certain matters are not permissible to omit either. Some things are too important not to mention. There ARE times that I feel one should lie. I will tell you why I believe this. I have never been one to join in this type of thread because to me, it makes it too easy to pass judgments on those who say they wouldn't, or would, when given the right circumstances, it is amazing what one would do, or wouldn't do, to protect a loved one. When is it acceptable to lie? When there is someone holding you at knife point and asks if there is anyone else in the house? Tell me now you wouldn't lie? I would and did. But this isn't the lie I want to talk to y'all about. Yes, I have had my share of lying. Lying to save my own life as well as that of my sister's, but I digress. I took care of my brother when he was dying. I slept in his room on a love seat for 23 days, waiting for hiim to take his lasst breath with Hospice coming every other day bringing meds to keep him comfortable. My mother, who I cared for, for years, (before making the hardest decision to place her in a nursing home for fear of her burning my house down while I was at work) called on Christmas day and asked if I was going to come and visit her. I couldn't. I couldn't leave my brother, so I told her that I had a bad flu. My brother requested that I didn't tell her about how truly sick he was, so I didn't. My mother had Alzheimer's and constantly asked when I was coming to visit, even when I just saw her that afternoon. When my brother finally died on Jan. 23rd. (The day after a very good friend of mine died) I didn't have the heart to tell my mother. I couldn't. She would ask me the next day, is Paul coming to see me soon? And I would pat her hand and tell her, you remember mom, Paul has the flu. For a month before he died I said that. Then I got a call from the nursing home telling me that my mother was at the hospital for me to get there right away. I go and make the decision to put her in Hospice. I was still reeling from my brother's death. In fact, I had just returned from his funeral when I got the call about my mom. On her final day, a few days after goijng to Hospice, she says to me "Where is Paul?". I said the same thing I had been saying for weeks. He has the flu, mom, don't you remember? She died later that day..and all I could think of, was "Won't she be surprised to see him in Heaven?" She would know I lied and that I should have told her. Yes, I lied, to protect her. How would you like to hear each day that your only son has passed away? And have the same reaction every time you hear it? Is it ever acceptable to lie? Is it acceptable to kill, yourself or another? Is it acceptable to whore yourself out? What is acceptable and what isn't? Who are we to say? You would be surprised what is acceptable under extreme circumstances. So don't be so quick to answer this question, the life you save by lying about it, may be yours or someone's you love. Edited to fix typo..blah.. quote: Zooming in on BDSM, in the context of a BDSM relationship, will you accept and/or understand your partner lying to you in any fashion or is this an utterly reprehensible act for which there is no forgiveness? There is no right or wrong answer here. I'm curious as to people's thoughts.

YourhandMyAss -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/21/2008 12:27:07 AM)
Your question is a straw dog, he's not talking about never lieing in general period ever, he's talking about lies in a relationship Can people finally stop twisting the question to be something it never was please!. quote: ORIGINAL: BlackPhx So..here's a question.. how many of those who refuse to ever tell a lie, have told a 5 year old there is no Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy? poenkitten quote: zoming in on BDSM, in the context of a BDSM relationship, will you accept and/or understand your partner lying to you in any fashion or is this an utterly reprehensible act for which there is no forgiveness? There is no right or wrong answer here. I'm curious as to people's thoughts. / quote:

naturalsin -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/21/2008 12:29:56 AM)
Lies suck, no matter how small, why or who too.[:'(]

ElectraGlide -> RE: Is it ever acceptable to lie? (8/21/2008 12:35:10 AM)
NO.

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