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Roles in a different light... - 8/23/2008 10:30:20 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		Posting in the "Because it makes THEM happy" thread, I got to thinking about my role and duties as Firm's submissive... and as a result, having a bit of a "light bulb" moment.

I moved in with Firm four months ago, and when I did, I left behind my professional career and the lifelong habit of earning a living outside the home.  Firm's instructions to me at that time were that he would provide for all my financial needs and in turn, my responsibilities would be to devote my time and efforts to taking care of him, his business, and his home.

I admit, I've had to adjust somewhat to the idea of someone else providing for me.  I've never wanted to be a burden to anyone and only wish to be an asset to Firm.  There have even been a few times where I have reminded him that should he wish for me to make a financial contribution to the home, though it's far from needed, I am more than capable of and willing to seek outside employment if that is his desire.  He's taken my comments in stride... always indicating that he appreciates my offer, but his decision will stand for now.

However, it occurred to me this evening when thinking about the domestic chores, that I would be mortified should Firm offer to "pitch in" and take care of some of them for me.  Even if I was to work a full-time position elsewhere, I just can't see being the least bit comfortable with him doing any of the housework.

It isn't as if I feel Firm isn't capable of doing housework... I know he's perfectly able to fend for himself as he has done so for quite some time.  As it is, he does tidy up after himself when he's been working on a project, he will fix himself a snack or a drink if he doesn't want to bother me, and he will often carry my dishes to the kitchen after dinner.  He's even gone grocery shopping when I was unable.  While those kinds of things have made me a little uncomfortable, I realize he does them because he wants to and who am I to tell him differently? 

Yet again... the mere thought of him cleaning a toilet, or vacuuming, or folding laundry... *shudders* makes me absolutely cringe.  Aside from it going entirely against my belief in what his position is and should remain, I would worry that he might think I wasn't able to live up to my end of the bargain... after all, those are my responsibilities!

Wow... is that a double standard or what?  Here I would feel indignant were Firm to offer to step in and assume some of my responsibilities, yet by my offering to financially contribute, I might be guilty of putting him in that very same place. 

Anyway, somehow I doubt Firm will ever torment me by tying me up and making me watch him clean the bathroom. 
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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/23/2008 11:07:37 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		The question comes down to whether you would honor your commitment to allow him to do those things- and from every indication, it seems you would.  As I say so often- s-types are the control freak perfectionists :) 

We all have our quirks, as long as we own them and say "I know this is ridiculous but it's just how I feel" then I think everyone can be happy.

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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/24/2008 5:36:14 AM   
UR2Badored


Posts: 506
Joined: 2/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Wow... is that a double standard or what? 


You've Come Along Way, Baby!  Remember those Virginia Slims Ads (that is a thread in it self). I might be flamed for this, but in many ways what we now call the "double standard" were my conventional ideals of a relationship as a child and to some degree still are my ideals. It seems you covet your role and it would seem you would be uncomfortable not only with Firm stepping in but anyone assuming your role. Heh?

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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/24/2008 7:21:32 AM   
Twicehappy2x


Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

There have even been a few times where I have reminded him that should he wish for me to make a financial contribution to the home, though it's far from needed,

However, it occurred to me this evening when thinking about the domestic chores, that I would be mortified should Firm offer to "pitch in" and take care of some of them for me.  Even if I was to work a full-time position elsewhere, I just can't see being the least bit comfortable with him doing any of the housework.

Yet again... the mere thought of him cleaning a toilet, or vacuuming, or folding laundry... *shudders* makes me absolutely cringe. 

I would worry that he might think I wasn't able to live up to my end of the bargain... after all, those are my responsibilities!


OH BOY, am i with you on this one!
 
It took me about 6 months to stop separating my purchases at the store and attempting to pay for them, each time Scooter slid my pile back into the big pile and gave me a look.
 
Even after all this time, him buying certain things is an exercise in self control for me. Last week we went to Pet Smart and bought a $50 dollar piece of furniture for the cat. I tried to talk him out of it, thinking, oh my, i can just pick up one at WalMart and pay for it myself later.
 
Lol, he bought it anyway but it was hard for me not to offer to pay for it.
 
Now, per his desires i do not work outside of the home, yet i have a good retirement, good investments and really would never have to work again unless i wanted to.
 
I still pay for a few things on my own, honestly mostly because he is not there and does not know/catch me at it.
 
And today gypsygrl is moving in to serve Jewel and so will be picking up some of the household duties, and it has been all i could do to keep from offering to pitch in and pay "rent" toward my upkeep. Even though her being her is not lessening my work but rather freeing up my time to do other stuff on the never ending honey do list. I feel like i am dropping my responsibilities.
 
The yard work is mine to do, while i was unable to mow because of the RA, i insisted on paying the neighbor girl to cut the grass because i felt like i was not keeping my end of the bargain.
 
But Scooter pick up a broom, the horror! The shame! I would not be able to stand it!
 
He does cook occasionally and i just watch in fascination but then i clean up the mess so i've learned to accept and enjoy that.
 
So, i know exactly how you feel. I wish i could tell you it gets easier but i've been here going on three years and i still have those moments.
 
I think perhaps we were raised in a generation of super women, you know "i can bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan....." 

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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/24/2008 7:29:08 AM   
kallisto


Posts: 1185
Status: offline 		Treasure, I'm right there with you.   I understand completely.   It certainly doesn't work for everyone.   But I think either person in the relationship would feel a sense of pride for their Dom or sub that was willing to do whatever (be in financially or domestic) was needed to make the relationship work - even though it was not "their responsibility". 

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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/24/2008 8:32:38 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		I don't work, my slave does.  I do most of the housework, but not all.  The reason I do the housework has nothing to do with proper roles or fairness.  In a really simple analysis, the best 4 hours of every weekday are between 6:00pm and 10:00pm when she gets home from work and before we go to sleep.  I could NOT do the housework all day and then she would do it in the evening.  But if she did, then instead of getting to do whatever fun and interesting things I had queued up for that evening, I get to watch her do housework. Seeing as my girl and all of her time are mine, it also falls to me to decide how I want to spend her 24 hours every day.  And for me, at least, I'd rather get up and clean a bit then spend some of her precious free time on  crap work I could hire a maid to do.

I'd also suspect that if there was a huge imbalance in "contribution to the household" over a long period of time (like 2 years or more), then she would become very disatisfied with the relationship;.  In other words, she has an expectation of me (her master *gasp*) that I'm going to pull my own weight in some fashion or another.  And if I don't measure up to that expectaion (and I'm sure there are others also), then I can assume the marriage will end eventually.

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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/24/2008 9:49:57 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x

I think perhaps we were raised in a generation of super women, you know "i can bring home the bacon, fry it up in the pan....."


lol... Isn't that the truth!

What amazes me is, with the strides made for women over the years to raise the bar of what women are capable of, some of us still have in our mind that "our man" is always a rung above us.  I wonder what kind of pressure that puts on him?

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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/24/2008 9:51:44 AM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

We all have our quirks, as long as we own them and say "I know this is ridiculous but it's just how I feel" then I think everyone can be happy.


Sage advice, as always, LA. 

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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/24/2008 5:31:17 PM   
silkncarol


Posts: 318
Status: offline 		I do understand what you mean treasure.....i was raised to be the "home-maker" and all that entails......so when i was with Stephen, it threw me for a loop....I was working full time outside the home.....He worked from home so had more flexible hours than i did.....the man loved to shop and cook...so most nights i came home to a delicious dinner...of course i cleaned up the kitchen; or we would do laundry together.  I once told him i felt he did far more for me than i did for him.......I got snatched up by the hair, gave me the "look" with penetrating eyes and i heard the words "you can't even imagine all you do for me!"    Who was i to argue? 

The only reality that matters is what works between two people......

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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/24/2008 6:09:56 PM   
lizcgirl


Posts: 287
Joined: 4/13/2008
Status: offline 		I grew up in a 2 parent, 2 'bread winner' family. For as long as I can remember my parents drilled into me to get a career, make the big bucks, have a family later, etc etc. None of it held any interest for me, I wanted to have a family and take care of them, that was it. I got the degree, I've had the careers, and I work to provide for my family at the moment because I have to. My last relationship lasted a few years and we discussed marriage and our plans for the future. He was always so concerned with my grades in college and I thought it was because he thought I could do better (even though I had a 3.7 GPA and a full time job and 2 small kids). To my horror I found out the real reason when he let it slip one night- he intended for me to get the degree and get the career and him to stay home and raise the kids! I know people that this would work for, but not for me. It ended for other reasons and we each moved on to better fitted people. My Master now wants nothing more than for me to stay at home and take care of Him and our family. The first time He cooked dinner for me as a reward I was such a pain in the butt trying to help do this and that He had to kick me out of the kitchen! For me it's just natural- I want to be the one to serve domestically, not the other way around.

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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/24/2008 6:17:45 PM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, all that matters is what the 2 people work out! But an interesting realisation Treasure that you are doing to Firm what you would hate Him to do to you LOL! How often does that happen? More than we suspect I think! Actually, if you were Mine (or Master's for that matter), We WOULD tie you up and make you watch Us clean the bathroom ... just to make the point that it's Our choice to do that if We want. And that it is important to be gracious about help rather than territorial. subs are really difficult to help as so many seem to have this superhero thing going *grin*.

Things are a bit different here, Master and i both have regular household jobs, i have picked up some of His now He is working outside the home (took some persuading for the Daddy's girl dog to accept her breakfast from me though!). But His first rule is that i should look after myself as His ... so when my back was badly out lately, and the chiro said no housework ... then Master did it. He was very sweet though, insisted i go to a craft workshop on Sat afternoon, and when i got home, it was all done! So i didn't have to watch Him doing it ... He knew i would find it hard to sit with my feet up  even though i wouldn't actually argue. So while it doesn't kill me to see Him doing chores, and i really really appreciate that He does ... i still have the odd little guilt pang so can identify to a point with the OP. One of the differences, is that i thank Him a lot for what He does ... He does thank me from time to time, but perhaps not quite as much! And i don't mind that at all.

Twice dear, knowing how much you do despite your RA ... I would suspect that Scooter is heaving a sigh of relief that gypsy is moving in as well so the chores can be shared and take some of the strain off you! Don't dare say rent hon LOL ... He would have a pink fit! I hope you and gypsy can come to an amicable arrangement on the chores, with her respecting that you might feel a bit territorial and with you trying to control that too. Hopefully there are some areas you can concede to her and agree that she stays out of some! Here, I'm territorial about my kitchen, so much so, that when i am seriously unwell and Master has to go in and make human food, the dogs keep trying to tell Him to get out LOL! They look seriously worried, they keep bumping Him and then running out of the kitchen as if to say "You should be out here!" and if i approach, they look REALLY worried! "Mummy's coming, oh you're really in trouble now!" Ted grabbed His trouser leg the other day and tried to lead Him out. It's absolutely hilarious! So good luck to all 4 of you at your place in adjusting to the new dynamic, I hope it works out for all.

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/24/2008 8:08:32 PM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

Actually, if you were Mine (or Master's for that matter), We WOULD tie you up and make you watch Us clean the bathroom ... just to make the point that it's Our choice to do that if We want.


this is a tactic that I have been known to use.  When I get the sense that one of the girls is tending to get emotional attached or ownership over a task, duty etc... well... it be flipped on it's head so to speak.  Ok.. it's not likely that you will see me cleaning the bathroom.... *G*... but... I have other ways to take care of that.

I am rather anal of ensuring that the girls are keyed on the mindset that I have the authority and they are not developing ownership or emotional attachments that hinders the authority and/or the execution of my will when I exercise the authority I have.

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/24/2008 8:36:27 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		FR
Why would seeing him do things you were supposed to bother you-would it make you feel redundant?

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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/24/2008 9:05:19 PM   
Paulnz


Posts: 411
Status: offline 		I always maintain that it's better for everyone to maintain a role, job, whatever, outside the home. It keeps everyone on an even keel. If anyone in the relationship becomes too domesticated things start to fall apart. I put it down to that person doing too much thinking.


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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/24/2008 10:53:49 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

... But an interesting realisation Treasure that you are doing to Firm what you would hate Him to do to you LOL! How often does that happen? More than we suspect I think!


Came as a bit of a shock to me, too.  I'm not used to making such gaffs. 

I've not had a chance to discuss it with Firm yet... we have company and he's been otherwise buried in computer issues.  It's not really a topic to just pop on him out of the blue when he's busy.  I suspect that he will say it doesn't bother him to the same degree that I am bothered, but will assure me that he is fully aware of what I'm capable of doing and will let me know if he decides to make a change in my responsibilities.

lol... Or, he could just say I'm being stupid. 

To be honest, part of my duties right now are to learn his business.  What I've been doing so far is mostly background work... organizing and setting up structure for growth.  While I've done a little "real" work for him, I'm not having much impact on his capital flow at the moment.  While he does very well without my help, I have hopes of helping him achieve even more.  I suppose I'm a little impatient with myself at the moment.  If anything, I'm guilty of not accepting well that he's perfectly fine with my progress to this point.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

Actually, if you were Mine (or Master's for that matter), We WOULD tie you up and make you watch Us clean the bathroom ... just to make the point that it's Our choice to do that if We want.


lol... Now that's just cruel.  Red!  Red!

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

... subs are really difficult to help as so many seem to have this superhero thing going *grin*.


lol... Guilty as charged, though I do try very hard to always be gracious about help.  I know that while Firm would be more than willing to lend me a hand should I need it, he isn't really interested in taking on any housekeeping duties.  If he was, he wouldn't have made them my responsibility. 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leatherist

FR
Why would seeing him do things you were supposed to bother you-would it make you feel redundant?


I'm not sure I can explain.  I suppose, in a way, I might feel part of my usefulness was being taken away from me.  I don't think I'd call it feeling redundant, though... as I said, I'm fully aware that Firm is more than able to do everything that I do.  He doesn't "need" me to take care of hearth and home, anymore than I "need" him to financially support me.  However, it is the way he wants it... otherwise we wouldn't be doing things this way. 

I guess you might say that it is a bit of warring within myself... the part of me that is fiercly loyal about supporting and protecting his vision, fighting against the part of me that needs to submit to his intermediate decisions.

Other than that, I can only say what LA pointed out... "I know this is ridiculous but it's just how I feel".  *shrugs*

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulnz

I always maintain that it's better for everyone to maintain a role, job, whatever, outside the home. It keeps everyone on an even keel. If anyone in the relationship becomes too domesticated things start to fall apart. I put it down to that person doing too much thinking.


I'm not sure how someone can become too domesticated, or how that can lead to things falling apart.  As for thinking too much, I'm not sure I really understand that, either.

However, this is the way Firm wants our relationship to be, and I agreed.  It's part of what made us compatible...

The hiccups along the way are just an adjustment for me.  I have over twenty-five years experience of being self-reliant, self-supporting, and self-sufficient to reconcile with now being under the care and authority of another.  Frankly, I'm sort of surprised it's been as easy as it has been. 

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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/25/2008 12:31:09 AM   
Paulnz


Posts: 411
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY



quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulnz

I always maintain that it's better for everyone to maintain a role, job, whatever, outside the home. It keeps everyone on an even keel. If anyone in the relationship becomes too domesticated things start to fall apart. I put it down to that person doing too much thinking.


I'm not sure how someone can become too domesticated, or how that can lead to things falling apart.  As for thinking too much, I'm not sure I really understand that, either.





Too domesticated is such things as, becoming wrapped up in domestic duties to the exclusion of other things. Too much thinking is when overly complicating what is in fact very easy, or in asking questions where the answers are obvious or unknown, and constantly introspecting this and that. Here's my prediction and be honest with the outcome. You're 4 months in, which to me is the blink of an eye. In your current set-up I give it 2 years max if you haven't seen sense and diversified. I've been around this site 4 years, so I guess I'll be around in 2 more to see if I was wrong.

Edit to add:-

How do I know this ? You provided the answer from your own words:-

I left behind my professional career and the lifelong habit of earning a living outside the home.
 
In moving forward you already have things categorised as giving up something. When people look at things like that and the test is put to them further on, that sacrifice builds to resentment. The implication in your statement is that you saw yourself as having higher status before but now a lesser one. Not a good way to go forward IMO.





< Message edited by Paulnz -- 8/25/2008 12:39:56 AM >

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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/25/2008 2:04:55 AM   
Twicehappy2x


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Joined: 3/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulnz

. In your current set-up I give it 2 years max if you haven't seen sense and diversified. I've been around this site 4 years, so I guess I'll be around in 2 more to see if I was wrong.

Edit to add:-

How do I know this ? You provided the answer from your own words:-

I left behind my professional career and the lifelong habit of earning a living outside the home.


A big, buzzzzzz...you lose on this answer.
 
Jewel gave up her job for Scooter before they got married, about 5 years ago. Not saying she is domesticated because she is not. I gave up mine when i came here almost three years ago, and trust me, i always was the housewife, cook, gardener type.
 
And neither of us is resentful or upset.
 
I think you are taking Treasure's "i do all the domestic chores" to mean that is all she does. I'm willing to bet that she does more than that and learn Firm's business.
 
Of course we all have other interests.

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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/25/2008 2:09:15 AM   
Twicehappy2x


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MaamJay

I hope you and gypsy can come to an amicable arrangement on the chores, with her respecting that you might feel a bit territorial and with you trying to control that too. Hopefully there are some areas you can concede to her and agree that she stays out of some! Here, I'm territorial about my kitchen,Maam Jay aka violet[A]



Laughing hard, i can see the princess grousing about her breakfast and Magic trying to boot your Master out of the kitchen! They are so adorable.
 
OH, yes, a bit territorial about my kitchen, lol.
 
Gypsy will get to cook occasionally as well as fix Jewel's lunch daily but Scooter and Jewel have both stated they are not giving up their cook.
 
And honestly, i am looking forward to having garage time to get projects in there going as well as having some time to hit the dirt, to ride if not race again.

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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/25/2008 2:52:34 AM   
Paulnz


Posts: 411
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twicehappy2x

quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulnz

. In your current set-up I give it 2 years max if you haven't seen sense and diversified. I've been around this site 4 years, so I guess I'll be around in 2 more to see if I was wrong.

Edit to add:-

How do I know this ? You provided the answer from your own words:-

I left behind my professional career and the lifelong habit of earning a living outside the home.


A big, buzzzzzz...you lose on this answer.
 
Jewel gave up her job for Scooter before they got married, about 5 years ago.


That's not what the OP says, here it is again:-

I moved in with Firm four months ago, and when I did, I left behind my professional career and the lifelong habit of earning a living outside the home.  Firm's instructions to me at that time were that he would provide for all my financial needs and in turn, my responsibilities would be to devote my time and efforts to taking care of him, his business, and his home.
 
The words " when I did " clearly indicate that the leaving behind occurred in order to facilitate the new arrangement and were not unrelated events. You appear to be inventing facts or imagining things.

When someone frames their current circumstances in terms of having foregone a previous benefit, things never seem to work out.




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RE: Roles in a different light... - 8/25/2008 3:13:07 AM   
Twicehappy2x


Posts: 1096
Joined: 3/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Paulnz


. In your current set-up I give it 2 years max if you haven't seen sense and diversified. How do I know this ? You provided the answer from your own words:-

I left behind my professional career and the lifelong habit of earning a living outside the home.




That's not what the OP says, here it is again:-

I moved in with Firm four months ago, and when I did, I left behind my professional career and the lifelong habit of earning a living outside the home.  Firm's instructions to me at that time were that he would provide for all my financial needs and in turn, my responsibilities would be to devote my time and efforts to taking care of him, his business, and his home.
 
The words " when I did " clearly indicate that the leaving behind occurred in order to facilitate the new arrangement and were not unrelated events. You appear to be inventing facts or imagining things.

When someone frames their current circumstances in terms of having foregone a previous benefit, things never seem to work out.

Here are the other pertinent parts to me ;
 
"Too domesticated is such things as, becoming wrapped up in domestic duties to the exclusion of other things."

"In moving forward you already have things categorized as giving up something. When people look at things like that and the test is put to them further on, that sacrifice builds to resentment."

" always maintain that it's better for everyone to maintain a role, job, whatever, outside the home. It keeps everyone on an even keel. If anyone in the relationship becomes too domesticated things start to fall apart."

Submissives give up a lot of things to be in a relationship.
 
And i am not inventing things nor am i imagining them, i am quoting and responding to your own posts as you can clearly see from what i copied and pasted. Perhaps you could quote which facts you are stating i am making up or imagining?
 
Just like Treasure, Jewel (though she is Domme) and i gave up things, jobs, careers, in order to be here with Scooter. In other words, these events occured in order to facillitate the relationship. In my case it was a "I want you home taking care of the house and me, not working outside the home" thing, just like Treasure and Firm's arrangement appears to be.
 
No, i am not resentful of this, i am quite happy actually.
 
Why do you think giving up a career to take care of domestic or other things is a death knell for a relationship? You gave Treasure and Firm's relationship two years max.
 
I know folks here on cm who have moved across country, given up everything about their old lives in order to be in a relationship who have been together for 20+ years. My former owner gave up all of that to be with me on the opposite coast and we were together for 18+ years until he passed on. 
 
As long as you are not chained to the kitchen counter 24/7 just giving up your career to take care of hearth and home does not mean you have no outside interests.

< Message edited by Twicehappy2x -- 8/25/2008 3:29:53 AM >

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