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RE: BDSM & kink - 8/26/2008 9:17:21 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline 		Kink in itself can envolve multiple things without there being someone in charge. No one is being dominant or submissive at any time. They are just being kinky. As long as all parties envolved are happy, I could care less what you call yourself and the relationship.

As for being a Switch, those who give you heat for it are just being idiotic. I don't see anything wrong with being a switch that's into BDSM and Kink.  

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RE: BDSM & kink - 8/27/2008 4:38:31 AM   
Alumbrado


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sistermargaret

Thank you for your answer, but that is NOT the point. i guess i should never have mentioned the Switch thing. What i asked is ... IS there a difference 'tween BDSM and kink?
:)
sm


Only in the minds of some people. As mentioned, just about anything is somebody's kink, including every aspect of BDSM.

All too often, the derogatory 'That's not Twue BDSM, that's just kink' is a classic defense mechanism over their own insecurities

(in reply to sistermargaret)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: BDSM & kink - 8/27/2008 5:15:17 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline 		You can do BDSM without having to have D/s, it BS for anybody to tell you otherwise.

It's not a matter of BDSM vs. kink.   It's a matter of BDSM vs. D/s.   Hell some people have D/s realations without any kink.

As long as you are doing at least what ONE of the Letters of BDSM stands for, you are into BDSM.  

Think about it.. B is for Bondage.  Bondage is kink!  What's the difference between the two.  :-)







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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: BDSM & kink - 8/27/2008 5:18:52 AM   
hopelessfool


Posts: 988
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Status: offline 		And I said Id never have to use or see the transtitive property outside of math class... thanks Whiplash...

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RE: BDSM & kink - 8/27/2008 5:36:19 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Bondage, Discipline, Sadism, Masochism........are actions.

D/s, M/s........are relationship dynamics.

They are entirely seperate to me as I go by the original definitions.

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: BDSM & kink - 8/27/2008 5:57:12 AM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline 		Errrmmm... the 'original' definiton of bondage, was being a slave....

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: BDSM & kink - 8/27/2008 6:11:23 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		The original definition.....as in what was meant when the acronym first came into use.

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: BDSM & kink - 8/27/2008 6:41:22 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		but not everyone uses that definition hense the problem with such an umbrella term in the first place the amount it encompassess basically makes the name redundant

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: BDSM & kink - 8/27/2008 6:57:05 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sistermargaret

Thank you for your answer, but that is NOT the point. i guess i should never have mentioned the Switch thing. What i asked is ... IS there a difference 'tween BDSM and kink?
:)
sm


That depends is you are treating BDSM as a kink or not.
 
The only way to determine whether BDSM is a kink to someone, is to ask them what BDSM stands for in their understanding.
 
If they say Bondage Discipline Sadism and Masochism and that they get sexual fulfilment from that, then I would say, Kink.
If they include Ds then I would say that it's undefinable and you need to explore further.
 
I do not include Ds or Ms - as far asI have seen that is a pretty new addition but I find it confuses the issue.
 
the.dark.

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: BDSM & kink - 8/27/2008 8:39:19 AM   
DavidS8ist


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From: NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

BDSM is a complex acronym derived from the terms bondage and discipline (B&D), dominance and submission (D&S, D/S, or Ds), sadism and masochism (S&M or SM)

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDSM)

Most kinks fall into that catagory, in fact i would suggest you would be hard pressed to find any relationship in the history of relationships that didnt have an element of it within their relationship sexual or otherwise and to differant extents, therefore there is no differance therefore its just a way to try and make you feel inferiour, and they are quite clearly ignorant.




Actually, Wikipedia aside, my first exposure to the acronym was when folks into S&M and folks into B&D started discussing both together.  So *originally*, it was (as someone stated earlier) "bondage/discipline/sadism/masochism".  But today, it means everything and nothing.  Everybody and their uncle wants to be in that umbrella, just as everyone can be "a dom" or "a sub" regardless of what they do, how they do it, when they do it, or the nature of their interpersonal dynamic.

But I do agree, however, that just about everything that you can throw into the BDSM pot of obfuscated definitions could be considered "kink".

After all, from Random House Unabridged, 2006:

5.
Slang.
a.
bizarre or unconventional sexual preferences or behavior.
b.
a person characterized by such preferences or behavior.

So the only folks who are trying to differentiate BDSM from kink are doing so in some perverse method of self-aggrandizement.  "We're better because us D/s folks are into BDSM while you S&M'ers are just into kink, nyah, nyah!"

Don't buy, let alone drink, the KoolAide.

D.
"All of life’s big problems include the words 'indictment' or 'inoperable'. Everything else is small stuff."
- Alton Brown


< Message edited by DavidS8ist -- 8/27/2008 8:41:29 AM >

(in reply to colouredin)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: BDSM & kink - 8/27/2008 9:20:51 AM   
GreedyTop


Posts: 52100
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Savannah, GA
Status: offline 		hear hear, David.. my understanding was thjat BDSM was bondage/discipline/sadism/masochism (as I posted earlier).. the dominant/submissive stuff was added, (if I'm not mistaken) after the advent of internet hookups.

but I could be wrong.

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: BDSM & kink - 8/27/2008 9:33:46 AM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Oh and I'm one of the hard ball types who do NOT and WILL NOT include Ds in bdsm.  Ds is a relationship dynamic, bdsm is a set of kinky activities.


This gets my vote and i am realitively new here at only 2+ years of exploration. However, i have experienced enough to agree with LA's view 100%

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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: BDSM & kink - 8/27/2008 10:28:39 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

hear hear, David.. my understanding was thjat BDSM was bondage/discipline/sadism/masochism (as I posted earlier).. the dominant/submissive stuff was added, (if I'm not mistaken) after the advent of internet hookups.

but I could be wrong.


yup and gay means happy, fanny is a british name for a woman, sadist is someone who enjoys inflicting pain only when the other person hates is yadda yadda, seriously people keep with the times :P  

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: BDSM & kink - 8/27/2008 10:35:09 AM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sistermargaret

i'm posting this question here because it has always been the Dominants who have given me heat for being a Switch. The most frequent negative comment i've gotten is, "You aren't into BDSM, you're just into kink".  i'm all grown up so the negative comments don't bother me. To each their own, i say and i am exploring D/s now, so the Switch issue is moot, but IS there a difference? What is the difference 'tween BDSM and kink?
Thank You for taking the time to answer this question.
sm


To me, "kinks" are the specific acts that entice a person. For me, my "kinks" include play piercing, cutting, branding, fire-play, word-play, speech restrictions, and management of servants.

D/s, for me, is more of a -relationship- based practice. It incorporates not only the time that individuals are actively scening together, but also the time in between, when they are together but not actively involved in a scene. It incorporates the dynamic of their relationship to one another in a specific way, where, even outside of a scene, one yields to the other.

I have a lot of folks that I scene with and who 'bottom' for me, though they don't submit to me. They are just on the receiving end of what we're doing together, and I'm on the "doing" end. There is nothing -at all- wrong with this arrangement. It is not demeaning, lesser, or somehow derogatorily connected to D/s... it is what it is, and, frankly, it can be -great- and a lot of fun for everyone involved.

D/s is not, somehow, "better" just because the people in a D/s relationship practice ritual deferral. It is different, and it is a bigger challenge for some folks to be able to defer outside of the immediacy of a scene, but if you don't want that, there is nothing at all wrong with not going that direction. Don't let the tendency for some folks to try to obtain power by belittling others' choices make you feel like you have to go somewhere that you don't want to go.

As for the people who say "You're not -really- X because you won't do what I want!"... uh... to me that is a very childish way of treating others, and even if I -were- inclined to seek out opportunities to submit, I certainly wouldn't go seeking them from a person who had such... issues (nor would I accept a servant who used the same tactics to try to coerce me into doing things hir way!)

Calla Firestorm


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(in reply to sistermargaret)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: BDSM & kink - 8/27/2008 11:04:37 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

*beer influenced post..ignore if it makes no sense..LOL*

Bondage/Discipline/Sadism/Masochism - kink.


Dominance/Submission - can INCLUDE the kinky stuff.


Not bad for a beery post GT *laughs*.   I completely agree with this. 

I do not see myself as a kinkster.  I don't (substantively) participate in BD or SM.  My wife, however, is my slave (or sub with no pre-arranged boundaries).  There is an inevitable sexual component to having someone completely obedient to whom you are also sexually attracted, but kink is not the purpose of changing our marriage from traditional to M/s.

As an outside looking in, that despite all the dictionary definitions, in practical usage, BDSM and kink are synonymous.  It is for this reason that despite owning a slave, I do not self-identify as "into bdsm".  I have yet to meet another TPE-ish type couple that does not involve somone hitting or being hit.

(in reply to GreedyTop)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: BDSM & kink - 8/27/2008 4:00:33 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

The original definition.....as in what was meant when the acronym first came into use.


I figured, but that was too good to pass up..


As far as the various comments that D/S can't be kink, or must be part of 'Twue' BDSM, or whatever, when it 'first came into use' was the 50s, if my porn collection is any indicator, and it was kink back then too. So was D/s, and nobody had to include or leave out anything they didn't want to.  The rules of what can and can't be done certain ways seem to have come along later, when I wasn't looking.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: BDSM & kink - 8/27/2008 4:27:22 PM   
DavidS8ist


Posts: 97
Joined: 7/8/2004
From: NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

<snip> sadist is someone who enjoys inflicting pain only when the other person hates is yadda yadda, seriously people keep with the times :P  


...And that definition came from...?  Even the DSM differentiates between clinical Sexual Sadism and sadism.  Sure, language evolves, but not when everyone has the ability to define the same word to fit their own unique life.  There's a difference between the evolution of language and the Tower of Babel.

D. 

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: BDSM & kink - 8/28/2008 2:54:00 AM   
colouredin


Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		The complete Marquis De Sade (Volumes 1 & 2) By Marquis De Sade and Paul J Gillette (2006) - foreword and introduction

There was a discussion a few months ago about the use of the word Boi within a BDSM, D/s, M/s context meaning one thing and a vanilla context meaning another. For me I dont want to write BDSM, D/s, M/s and every other differant code for everything and i can never remember the W one so for me I use BDSM to mean it all because it doesnt really matter, so some people dont see it meaning the same thing thats ok as of yet no one has mailed me to shout that i havent included their definition. Language changes and often it changes whith youth or in BDSM's case with the birth of the internet, that doesnt make the chan ge bad, also in most cases it is only specific people who use the words, mint where i come from is a teenage thing for good, not that many adults would use it in that way, having extra definitions doesnt have to complicate things just makes language richer., If people dont want D/s to be part of the term then they dont have to see it as including it, however that doesnt stop people from being aware that some people do.

Anyways that was WIDELY off topic, I still stick by my point that the people who are saying there is a differance are simply doing so to be nasty

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: BDSM & kink - 8/28/2008 3:47:58 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Something I have noticed is that people are reverting back to BDSM meaning the four 'basic' descriptions and away from including orientations in the acronym.  I found that it was really popular to include orientations from about 10 years ago or so and onwards, but in the past year, that has altered.  From my personal opinion, that is good news - it is much less confusing and I am glad it is happening.  I would say that is what the OP has come up against.
 
the.dark.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: BDSM & kink - 8/28/2008 4:04:38 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: hopelessfool

And I said Id never have to use or see the transtitive property outside of math class... thanks Whiplash...


LOL... sure sure point that one out.  I would hope everybody would know that not all kink is bondage. (how's that for transitive).  I do wonder if people can figure out contrapositive logic, think they need to get it straight to begin before spinning around and looking at it from a different direction.

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Profile   Post #: 40
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