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RE: Pushing limits - 8/26/2008 6:03:48 PM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin
I think sometimes it is because if all the activities you want to do are all things the sub wants to do then its not really submitting its just urm doing what you want

Wow, it's been a long time since I've actually seen someone be so bold to say "If you like it, it's not submission."

That's utterly false of course.

The idea of everyone doing what they want and enjoying it- yeah that must suck.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 21

RE: Pushing limits - 8/26/2008 6:04:59 PM

Missokyst

Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
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for me.. I know my hard limits, and they shall never be breached. the difference is, i know me well. i have done a lot of things and willingly tried others without a second thought.
some of us are not new, so when i say hard.. it means should you try to cross it, be prepared for the outcome.
soft limits... those are not so much mine as those i have for a partner i dont know that well
kyst...

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 22

RE: Pushing limits - 8/26/2008 6:26:13 PM

CreativeDominant

Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

... Comfortable with being flogged but not with having a belt used on you? Time to try a belt. Comfortable with a wide canvas belt but not a thin leather one? Time to try a thin, leather one. Comfortable with being on your knees and stroking "Daddy's" legs but not with kissing his boot? Time to try kissing it. Comfortable with kissing Daddy's boot but not riding it to orgasm? Time to go for a ride. Comfortable with eyes down but not being forced to look into Master/Mistress' eyes while explaining why you have done what you have done? Time to have your chin taken in hand and be made to look.

I don't know, CD... while I think I understand where you're coming from in terms of a relationship not becoming stagnant, this sounds an awful lot like never being satisfied unless there's some level of discomfort.

Constantly feeling the need to push and grow, I wonder when people take the time to savor what they have?

I get where you are coming from Treasure and I agree, there needs to be a time to stop and savor what you have. In all honesty, someone who was constantly pushing and probing and exploring would seem to me to be someone who might have an idea...but no real clue...of what they fully want from a relationship and perhaps, to some extent, themselves.

What I am addressing...and I believe others are also...is the infestation of complacence. I've had it happen when I had reached the point in my marriage where I knew growth of some sort had to take place...change of some sort had to take place...or it would die. I was growing and changing internally and my partner did not want to go along, even when I halted my growth in the D/s arena and tried to concentrate on growing our marriage from the stagnant deathbed it had become. It still didn't happen and so, as I've noted, I left. Nothing wrong with savoring what is good but never adding to it, never taking something away, results in a static picture that...because life is what it is...will not remain as colorful as it was, without an occasional dab of new paint.

simple, I was using those examples as illustrations...that is why I gave more than one example.

Missokyst, if you note, I mentioned before my examples and within my examples that the limits I push are not just those of the play variety. They are of the dynamic itself, and in complementary fashion, the relationship. And as I just noted above, this is not an ongoing, day after day, minute after minute thing.

(in reply to TreasureKY)

Post #: 23

RE: Pushing limits - 8/26/2008 6:34:13 PM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
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Like I said, it is not a good idea for every couple or for any given limit within a couple. In fact, if it is a dealbreaker, who could possibly blame you? Especially if this was spelled out ahead of time. Did I not know myself? No, I don't think that is at issue at all. I can be taught and introduced to difficult concepts and accept or reject upon further review. Was it a foolish risk? Maybe, but the end results were positive. Can experience and understanding overcome fear and misconception without it being an affront? Absolutely! It is how the cards fell for US and only us and only in this one given area. I have other areas that are utterly respected and my concerns are heard and taken into account. Some of these areas will be pushed and tested in the future, I am sure of that, but I also know I can trust him to do so properly and support me in the aftermath.

lovingpet

(in reply to Missokyst)

Post #: 24

RE: Pushing limits - 8/26/2008 7:02:51 PM

Huntertn

Posts: 715
Joined: 10/7/2006
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sometimes when you push a limit..they find out why the limit is there..othertimes ...after a time to think it thu..they realize that limit really wasn't what they thought it was..the only way to tell is time spent with them..and really learning more about them..than they know about themselfs..realy effort..but worth it

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 25

RE: Pushing limits - 8/26/2008 8:19:26 PM

TemptingNviceSub

Posts: 3054
Joined: 10/1/2005
Status: offline

To my way of thinking a soft limit is put into play due to many reasons, such as:..inexperience,new relationship,variable definitions of either parties thought processes,ad infinitum....Soft limits will just naturally fall by the wayside as any relationship developes...so to me pushing is the wrong word...I think it is simply just the right time,place and person...Tempting

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I have greatly enjoyed the second blooming...suddenly you find at the age of 50, that a whole new life has opened before you.........Agatha Christie.

You must make tracks into the unknown~~Thoreau

(in reply to Huntertn)

Post #: 26

RE: Pushing limits - 8/26/2008 10:01:25 PM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
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It’s a euphemism. What does it really mean? The dom wants her to do things with another woman or he wants to beat her harder. Someone please enlighten me if they can come up with other limits to be pushed.

If we are talking pushing her to work harder at her job, be a better person or whatever, that’s kind of milquetoast like and not really what I consider to be a bdsm limit.

Nine times out of ten it comes down to getting her to take more pain, whippings, etc. That is a technique and is not realistically pushing a limit.

So she was eventually taught to desire the cane and never thought she would. Limit pushed? Okay, if you say so.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 27

RE: Pushing limits - 8/27/2008 5:35:39 AM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

It’s a euphemism. What does it really mean? The dom wants her to do things with another woman or he wants to beat her harder. Someone please enlighten me if they can come up with other limits to be pushed.

If we are talking pushing her to work harder at her job, be a better person or whatever, that’s kind of milquetoast like and not really what I consider to be a bdsm limit.

Nine times out of ten it comes down to getting her to take more pain, whippings, etc. That is a technique and is not realistically pushing a limit.

So she was eventually taught to desire the cane and never thought she would. Limit pushed? Okay, if you say so.

i respectfully disagree.

Sometimes pain limits are pushed and that can be a growth experience, too. But that is only one way or type of limit that can be pushed.

i think that i have an example of what CD was talking about.

i had a truly awful session with one of my former partners, it was one big stepping stone on the path of him being an ex partner. No details necessary, but there was a belt and it did wrap...multiple times. i ended up breaking the scene myself and saying some things unbecoming a good submissive.
This happened early on in my career as a painslut and i was distraught. It was the first time i had lost faith in my dominant partner and it was the first time i got hurt. (not badly..but bad enough). i was actually really disconcerted by the whole thing. i discussed it briefly without detail with another of my partners...just said..."well, i guess belts are out.."
He was quiet for a minute and then invited me over. When i got there, he took my bag and my coat, not saying anything. He ordered me to disrobe and he walked all around me, inspecting. When he got to my freshly injured hip, he "tsk-tsk'd" and from behind, i heard his belt come off.
i was terrified...."have all my doms gone insane?" But i didnt speak.
Suffice it to say, that not only were belts firmly back on my "good girl list", but i realized that its not the implement, its the force/person behind it...i use this lesson everytime i feel hesitant to be pushed.

i have an exhaustive list of limits when i play with a newer partner...one by one they fall to the wayside as trust develops. Pushing through fear or trepidation is a large part of what i love about WIITWD.

The few hard limits i have are hard for a reason and are not negociable. They are also the 2 most commonly listed ones and i dont really find too many folks who want to push them anyway. They are hard limits and i dont even discuss them further.

Emotional limits or personal growth issues are more intimate and should really be molded by ones own Dominant, so i dont spend a lot of time on them at this time in my life. When that does become an issue i may feel differently, but for now i look forward to attempting any changes that he would see fit...easily said when its imaginary.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 28

RE: Pushing limits - 8/27/2008 6:04:28 AM

impishlilhellcat

Posts: 4379
Joined: 3/26/2006
Status: offline

Soft limits for me are things that I'd like to try, but I'm a little trepidacious about trying. Either the circumstances haven't been right or I haven't reached a level of comfort with someone enough to try them. For me personally it's nice to have someone to push those soft limits with or just to give me a lil nudge. It helps over come the fear, breach new grounds, and I learn something myself. Either I like what we tried or I didn't and if I hadn't pushed those limits then I would never know. It's not about badges or medals. It is about learning and growing and expanding my knowledge.

_____________________________

Anyone who says they have only one life to live must not know how to read a book - Unknown

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 29

RE: Pushing limits - 8/27/2008 8:59:17 AM

atypicalsub

Posts: 284
Joined: 4/11/2008
From: an atypical sub
Status: offline

I'm still pretty new to this, but have learned that limits have far less to do with any activity or implement than they do with who I am with. Something I *love* to do can be turned into a chore I just want to be done with if the Dom/me handles it baddly.

Conversely, on my first visit with my Mistress she did things I would have never imagined letting anyone do to me before. As I sit writing this and remembering how those things happened it doesn't even seem like it was 'pushing' limits. She just let me know these things would please her. I was always given the option to refuse, but she was so good to me that I always wanted to give her more - and to give her something I would never let anyone else have.

As is so often said here, good communication is the key for me. If someone takes the time to get me relaxed, and explains what they expect of me, I can usualy go along with most things. When someone tries something new without warning me it will almost always end baddly. It is also very unlikely I will never let them try it again (good chance I won't even play with that person again).

Also the importance of after care can not be overrated. One thing my Mistress did turned out to be much more intense than I bargined for. She stopped immediately (vitaly important). Then she laid down next to me and kept stroking me while we discussed it. I've never had proper after care before. That simple act made such an incredible difference. While it will be a long time before I reach the level to give that to her, it made me start searching my other limits. It made me ask what else I could for her. In an instant, other limits were transformed into levels I would aspire to reach for her.

_____________________________

Polyamorous, solitary eclectic pagan, pansexual slut, and personal pet of MistressYes

"Do not do anything you are ashamed of, and don't be ashamed of anything you do"
(although I'm sure my bio-family wishes I did less and was ashamed of more)

(in reply to impishlilhellcat)

Post #: 30

RE: Pushing limits - 8/27/2008 9:59:32 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
Dominants end up pushing limits when they are with someone who is not compatable.
Many people just settle.
the.dark.

Gosh, that's a pretty sweeping assertion. Mine and myself started compatible, it's gotten better every year for 10 years so I'd say we're much MORE compatible now than when we married. And even so, I push her limits. There's two broad categories of reasons...

a) To make her more pleasing to me
Hey, "compatible" is not synonymous with "perfect".

b) To help her grow
You know, helping her in her own personal growth (having nothing to do with me).

We don't have hard limits and soft limits. We just have things that we have tried or want to try or maybe don't want to try that work or don't for us.

< Message edited by leadership527 -- 8/27/2008 10:00:36 AM >

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 31

RE: Pushing limits - 8/27/2008 12:56:14 PM

ExSteelAgain

Posts: 1803
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Georgia
Status: offline

Persephonee, I can see in your mind that was a big obstacle when the dom helped you overcome your fear of belts. But doesn't that fit what I said? Wasn't pushing your limit getting you to take pain that you previously feared? Again, my point when we discuss pushing limits we are actually only saying we can use good techniques and get the submissive to take more pain. I'm telling ya, it's either that or getting her to play in a threesome.

In my case, I enjoy giving pain and worked with ChainEx a good bit to get her into the cane. I slowly brought her along to a place where she now desires cane play and can fly well doing it. I'm sure many call that pushing limits, but to me it was simply using good sense, observing carefully and gradually building the intensity. Technique, not pushing limits.

_____________________________

You can paint a cinder block bright pastel pink, but it's still a cinder block. (By Me.)

(in reply to persephonee)

Post #: 32

RE: Pushing limits - 8/27/2008 1:00:55 PM

heartfeltsub

Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin
I think sometimes it is because if all the activities you want to do are all things the sub wants to do then its not really submitting its just urm doing what you want

Wow, it's been a long time since I've actually seen someone be so bold to say "If you like it, it's not submission."

That's utterly false of course.

The idea of everyone doing what they want and enjoying it- yeah that must suck.

Though i agree with you in theory LA, that submission is about obeying the commands, etc. of the person in authority, submitting to what his or her will is at the moment, i also understand the feeling that if the activity is something that i greatly enjoy, i don't "feel" like i'm submitting the same way that i am actively aware that i am submitting when i am asked to do something that i don't enjoy. So i also understand the premise of the comment that you were addressing.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 33

RE: Pushing limits - 8/27/2008 1:04:41 PM

heartfeltsub

Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chamberqueen

I also think there is a difference between the limits that a sub would allow to be pushed and those that a slave would. I have crossed into new territories as a slave that I would have considered to be hard limits as a sub or casual play partner. The biggest difference between a hard limit and a soft one is in your mindset.

Given your example, i would also think that it is in relationship to the relationship that you are in. At least for some it is. Others have hard limits that are hard across the board regardless of the relationship, while other set limits based on a relationship (sub, casual play partner, slave) basis.

heartfelt

_____________________________

Life is an exciting business, and most exciting when it is lived for others.

Life is a succession of lessons which must be lived to be understood.

Life is either a great adventure or nothing.

Helen Keller

50 NZ points

(in reply to chamberqueen)

Post #: 34

RE: Pushing limits - 8/27/2008 1:26:58 PM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain

Persephonee, I can see in your mind that was a big obstacle when the dom helped you overcome your fear of belts. But doesn't that fit what I said? Wasn't pushing your limit getting you to take pain that you previously feared? Again, my point when we discuss pushing limits we are actually only saying we can use good techniques and get the submissive to take more pain. I'm telling ya, it's either that or getting her to play in a threesome.

In my case, I enjoy giving pain and worked with ChainEx a good bit to get her into the cane. I slowly brought her along to a place where she now desires cane play and can fly well doing it. I'm sure many call that pushing limits, but to me it was simply using good sense, observing carefully and gradually building the intensity. Technique, not pushing limits.

Aww crap....you're right....betcha i get some flack later on tonite....ah well, i cant be right every time.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 35

RE: Pushing limits - 8/27/2008 1:30:21 PM

persephonee

Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline

btw....we're not supposed to just give in right away on the threeway thing?...i knew i shouldnt have listened to that man....i was tricked into it.....again....

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to ExSteelAgain)

Post #: 36

RE: Pushing limits - 8/27/2008 1:30:26 PM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline

another bubble gum logic thing
a limit means just that NO thank you If it is something they have tried and they did not like it then respect it
quick way to divide a relationship is not respecting things of your partner

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)

Post #: 37

RE: Pushing limits - 8/27/2008 1:31:36 PM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Dominants end up pushing limits when they are with someone who is not compatable.
Many people just settle.

the.dark.

I would disagree with this sentiment. When I push limits, it tends to be because we've progressed to a point in our relationship where something that was too 'scary' to consider earlier on can be considered, or where something changed that made a formerly-not-do-able activity a possibility. Because some of the things that I like to do are pretty heavy-duty, some of our servants aren't ready for them when they first come to be with us. It requires time to build trust to allow me to mark their skin (sometimes permanently), and to enable them to feel safe enough and secure enough to know that they can offer me that canvas. They may be a perfectly good fit for our house and never be able to let me spill their blood or mark them -- but some are willing to try after a while, and for those, I am willing to help them push the boundaries of what they believe they are capable of in the name of service.

Calla Firestorm

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 8/27/2008 1:32:34 PM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

"Your mind is more interested in the challenge of becoming than the challenge of doing." Jon Benson, Bodybuilder/Trainer

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 38

RE: Pushing limits - 8/28/2008 2:53:51 PM

Deliena

Posts: 623
Joined: 6/16/2007
From: Darlington, United Kingdom
Status: offline

See I wonder if other people define or see the term 'soft limit' the way I see it, which is "activity which I have always found exciting from a fantasy perspective but that in reality has not yet been satisfying".

Shrug

Is it more complex than that?

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 39

RE: Pushing limits - 8/28/2008 8:06:10 PM

LATEXBABY64

Posts: 2107
Joined: 4/8/2004
Status: offline

um like who are you dr phil lol come on be real if something is a hard limit it means that something that is to be respected that is it

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 40

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