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Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not sold ... - 8/26/2008 5:22:12 AM   
celticlord2112


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Status: offline 		Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not sold on Obama

And how hard has Hillary been stumping for Obama? (or perhaps the phrase should be "has Hillary been stumping for Obama?")

When the folks at Mother Jones start hinting that Obama isn't displaying the "toughness and steeliness that will be required in the weeks ahead...," that can't bode well for Obama.

And, yeah, to me that's good news.


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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 5:38:42 AM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		Hillary and many of her supporters would like nothing more than to see Obama lose this election. It would make it very easy for her to run again in 2012. I think this will prove to be very big problem for Obama in this election...

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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 5:43:55 AM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Hillary and many of her supporters would like nothing more than to see Obama lose this election. It would make it very easy for her to run again in 2012. I think this will prove to be very big problem for Obama in this election...

It is worth noting that many observers feel that had Reagan stumped a bit more vigorously for Ford in 1976, that Ford would have won that election.

Thus the notion of Hillary subtly sabotaging Obama to gain position for 2012 is not with a certain historical precedent. 


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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 6:02:34 AM   
housesub4you


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Status: offline 		Well, If old HC thinks she can stump Obama and then carry his supporters in 2012, she has another thing coming. 

I think the thing for HC is she screwed up her campaign and just unwilling to see it that way.  She thought she was a sure thing and when she lost that 1st primary she did not have the people in place to save her.

I think the GOP is really the only ones forcing this issue, they wanted HC because than old BC would have been an open target in this election and they would be saying See no change. 

Hell it's the GOP running the ads with HC about not being picked.  as an Obama supporter, I don't hear (personally) HC supporters,(not news polls) say will not support Obama, everyone is on board.  I'm up in a very conservation part of WI and  even here, it's only radio talk shows throwing this stuff around.  Even the callers are saying No, I was with HC but now I will support Obama.

Polls are polls are polls are polls, the only way we will really know is in Nov,   why if we are to believe polls McCain should have been out a long time ago


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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 6:44:06 AM   
celticlord2112


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Well, If old HC thinks she can stump Obama and then carry his supporters in 2012, she has another thing coming.

Why do you say that?

First off, if one takes the 1976 election as precedent, Hillary can do exactly that

Second, it doesn't take much skullduggery for Hillary to be outwardly campaigning for Obama and inwardly sabotaging him.  Leaks to the press, malapropisms, lackluster speeches.....the list is virtually endless.

Third, even if Obama supporters do blame Hillary, are they going to commit heresy and vote Republican because of it?  The worse they are likely to do is sit 2012 out.

If Hillary wants back in the White House, burning Obama this year is step one of just about any winning strategy to accomplish that.


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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 7:20:50 AM   
MissSCD


Posts: 1185
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Status: offline 		After last nights speach with Michelle Obama, it is a matter of time before we all cave in.
I am still in awe.
I am a former Clinton supporter.  Yes, I was disappointed he did not pick her for VP.  We don't need to go backwards.
Bill is her problem.  We do not need any more Kennedys, Clintons, nor Bushes in the White House.  We need change.  
 
Regards, MissSCD

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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 7:48:20 AM   
cyberdude611


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

After last nights speach with Michelle Obama, it is a matter of time before we all cave in.
I am still in awe.
I am a former Clinton supporter.  Yes, I was disappointed he did not pick her for VP.  We don't need to go backwards.
Bill is her problem.  We do not need any more Kennedys, Clintons, nor Bushes in the White House.  We need change.  
 
Regards, MissSCD


I dont think so. Polls show 27% of Democrats say they've already made up their mind and are voting McCain and that number keeps growing. It was 17% just one month ago.

If that number stays that high, there is no way Obama can win in November.

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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 7:53:08 AM   
Thadius


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Status: offline 		Honestly, the GOP wants to run against Obama this cycle, not Hillary.  If she would have gotten the nod this go round, it would have allowed for Barrack to pad his annemic record over the next 4 years.  IF he loses to McCain, there is no chance of him getting another shot at the big ticket, at least not in the #1 seat.

Not sure if anybody caught some of the protests last night, prolly not if you were watching one of the news network feeds.  You had folks outside shouting about caucas fraud, and some interesting stuff inside.

I saw an interview with Rasmuessen this morning and their daily tracking polls have been showing a loss everyday since Biden was announced.  Even if only 5-10% of Hillary voters go for McCain in Nov, that is a big deal.

As for how Hillary can sabbotage without appearing to do so, just look at her biggest pitbull, James "skeletor" Carvell and who his wife is... nuff said.

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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 7:56:44 AM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Hillary and many of her supporters would like nothing more than to see Obama lose this election. It would make it very easy for her to run again in 2012. I think this will prove to be very big problem for Obama in this election...


And nowhere is that more apparent than in Massachusetts.
Her supporters are *PISSED* that she wasn't nominated!
As I said in another thread, Obama won't take Massachusetts.
There's too much support for Hillary in that state.

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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 8:24:13 AM   
cyberdude611


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Status: offline 		Im sure Hillary wants Obama to lose. There is no question about that. Because if Obama loses, he's out of the way and McCain may not even run in 2012 because of his age. So the window would still be wide open again for Hillary to make another run. And I think a lot of Hillary voters see this as well and want Obama to lose.

If Hillary was the nominee this year, the election would be over. She'd win an electoral landslide. Obama may save the GOP. People are starting to look at Obama and wonder why they should vote for him. His extensive military record? No...Obama was never in the military. His extensive business and economic skills? No. Obama has never owned or managed a business. His extensive foreign policy experience? No. Obama has none of that either. His extensive record of a US Senator? No. He still hasnt completed his first term.

Hmmm......

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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 8:34:54 AM   
celticlord2112


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Not sure if anybody caught some of the protests last night, prolly not if you were watching one of the news network feeds. You had folks outside shouting about caucas fraud, and some interesting stuff inside.

The caucus thing is interesting.....I have heard/read Clinton supporters argue that Clinton beat Obama in every straight up primary, and that Obama's delegate haul is chiefly from the caucuses (alternate construction of this: based solely on primary results and not caucus returns, Clinton runs away with the nomination).  I have yet to fact check that one myself (so I'm putting in a little wiggle room in case that turns out to be not completely accurate), but if that contention is accurate, is there a case to be made that Obama's electoral strength is significantly less than it appears at first glance?

After all, November won't be a caucus.


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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 8:46:45 AM   
Thadius


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Status: offline 		I have heard and read many things that suggest exactly that.  If you look at battleground states, the only one that he pulled off was Missouri, and that was a nail biter.  He performed better than her in traditionally red states, states he has no hopes of carrying in the general election, then add in the things like the Texas two step (primary that Hillary won, and caucs that Obama won) where Obama received a net gain even with less support.  It makes for a very interesting dynamic.

I just heard that when they do the roll call vote they are going to skip any states that would put Hillary in the lead even for a moment, until they get to NY at which time Hillary is supposed to make a motion to suspend the roll call and call for the Obama to be accepted with no further counts.  I can only imagine what those folks that have fought so hard to have their votes count are going to say if that is the actual scenario.

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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 9:39:24 AM   
subrob1967


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MissSCD

After last nights speach with Michelle Obama, it is a matter of time before we all cave in.
I am still in awe.
I am a former Clinton supporter.  Yes, I was disappointed he did not pick her for VP.  We don't need to go backwards.
Bill is her problem.  We do not need any more Kennedys, Clintons, nor Bushes in the White House.  We need change.  
 
Regards, MissSCD


Can you please tell me where the change comes from in picking Biden as VP?

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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 10:36:41 AM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		On Obamas time in the Senate. He has 142 working days as a Senator. Experience, I don't think so..

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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 12:10:06 PM   
Vendaval


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Status: offline 		General Reply -
 
Yes, Senator Clinton needs to work on persuading all of her delegates to vote for Senators Obama and Biden.  This DNC is contentious but that makes for having the issues and problems out in the open rather than behind closed doors.  Which is a good thing IMO.



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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 12:56:24 PM   
Mercnbeth


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Somebody is moving their support considering this latest Gallup Poll:
quote:

For the first time in this general election, John McCain has taken the lead over Barack Obama, according to today's latest Gallup Poll.
McCain is pegged at 46 percent to Obama's 44 percent.
Obama's three-day dive comes immediately on the heels of his selection of Joe Biden as his running mate.
Most disturbing for Democrats, today's three-day survey is the first by Gallup to include only results from after the announcement of Biden as Veep.
And it even includes one full day of the Democratic convention, which usually provides the host party a boost.
See the poll here. 

Source: http://blogs.nypost.com/opinion/hurt/archives/2008/08/the_biden_cat_b.html 


A statistical "dead heat" but considering it came after Senator Biden was named and the first day of the Denver convention shouldn't it be going the other way?

Owner - Want to rationalize this? Unlike the Bush elections in 2000 and 2004, where I acknowledge and accept the consequences of my participation and vote, I neither participated nor voted for McCain in the poll and can't blamed for these results.

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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 1:08:14 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		It is typical to get a 'bump' from 5 to 10 points after a convention. This convention isn't over yet, but I would say it doesn't look like much of a bump for the Dems...Biden has a lot of baggage. Obama introduced one of Bidens sons which will soon be in Irac. He never mentioned the other son who happens to be a lobbyest. Isn't that a no-no for Obama ? Change ? 

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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 1:12:03 PM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		Like I said before, the Dems are going to be sorry that they didn't run Hillary come November.

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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 1:13:04 PM   
Thadius


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Status: offline 		I think things are going to go even further south for the Dem nominee, once the details of how the roll call vote is being discussed right now.  I just saw a quick blurb that Clinton delegates may be forced to vote from their hotel rooms, and not on the convention floor.  Something is a stir in Denver...

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RE: Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not s... - 8/26/2008 1:21:16 PM   
celticlord2112


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

I think things are going to go even further south for the Dem nominee, once the details of how the roll call vote is being discussed right now. I just saw a quick blurb that Clinton delegates may be forced to vote from their hotel rooms, and not on the convention floor. Something is a stir in Denver...

Not wanting to sound cynical, but do you have a link for this?

That's a pretty piss-poor way to treat delegates to one's own convention....even if it is intended to be a coronation for the other guy.

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