RE: Is religion important in politics ?

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Alumbrado -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 8:49:12 AM)
An what context would that be? In the context of how the rest of the world bans religion from governmentof course....

RCdc -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 8:51:21 AM)
The context of the post made. the.dark.

Alumbrado -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 8:55:20 AM)
If you can't give a straightfoward answer to the context, how is anyone else supposed to know what it was? But if you see the person who wrote that post, would you ask them what context they meant it in, if not in the context of the US should be forcing people to abandon their religion in order to be part of the goverment?

RealityLicks -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 8:58:37 AM)
This is disappearing up a blind alley. Banning or prohibition in this context is an infantile notion, defeating the whole purpose of achieving equity. Religious traditions are observed in parliaments worldwide but I think they're pretty irrelevant so long as the officials in said parliament can comfortably be elected whether they are believers or not. In America, they simply must be religious. In Europe generally and more specifically in Britain, politicians are elected regardless of having a faith or not. In Britain, lip service is paid to the importance of spiritual belief, when the opposite is true in practice. In America, lip service is paid to the separation of church and state, although the opposite is true in practice.

Steponme73 -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 9:00:17 AM)
IMO religion should not be a part of politics. But the reality of things is...it is. And in today's climate of turmoil, religion is going to be more and more important. With radical Islamic terrorists declaring Jihad on everything that moves, it moves the religious ideals of others to the forefront. People as a whole want to live their lives as they wish. However, now we are coming to the battle of relegions...West vs Middle East. And along with that comes the politics...sad but true.

rulemylife -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 9:02:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver I've spent quite sometime in America, going to church is like going to a club, there is social pressure to do it and to be seen to do it. your ignorant generalization could be offensive to those of us Americans who go to church for the right reasons....if your opinion mattered. If one of those "right reasons" is to learn tolerance for those who don't share your views, I heartily suggest you go more often.

meatcleaver -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 9:03:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado quote: I think you are wrong. Because of course, actually dealing with facts would upset your fantasy. No because a European politician ranting on about god and faith in a way American politicians do would haemerage votes and not gain power. Western Europeans have had their gut full of mixing politics and religion a long time ago and don't want any more of it. Actually Amunbrado, my fantasy has more reality that your reality. Which is why you have to resort to juvenile antics like mangling my name, or making up ealsiy debunked assertions about the history of the Church of England, (or history in general, as you have on the slave trade, etc.), and making up straw arguemtns that other people never said. And when I and others here provide references, whether the dictonary, history texts, or even poitical economy theorists like Chiricos, it isn't 'my reality', it is an invitation to learn more about the world than can be gotten from your agitprop... But, like all 'true believers' and blind faithful followers, you reject logic and documentation... apparently your illusions can't withstand open discourse. If I knew what you was talking about, I would answer you.

RCdc -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 9:05:23 AM)
quote: Just think, if the US shelved this use of religion, it was banned in politics, what message would that send out to the world, bearing in mind, just about every nation on earth looks to the US and what it is upto to compare itself against ? As I understand it - It wasn't a statement, but a thoughtful question- as yet - as far as I have seen - unanswered by most. The context in which you relate it, without posting the entire context, speaks of A stating it should be prohibited/banned whatever. He did not. He asked that if it was shelved as an example, what would the outcome be for other countries in comparrison. the.dark.

meatcleaver -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 9:05:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver I've spent quite sometime in America, going to church is like going to a club, there is social pressure to do it and to be seen to do it. your ignorant generalization could be offensive to those of us Americans who go to church for the right reasons....if your opinion mattered. What are the right reasons for believing in superstition? I can understand people saying they believe for political reasons, that is being rational if not entirely honest.

meatcleaver -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 9:12:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Steponme73 With radical Islamic terrorists declaring Jihad on everything that moves, it moves the religious ideals of others to the forefront. People as a whole want to live their lives as they wish. However, now we are coming to the battle of relegions...West vs Middle East. And along with that comes the politics...sad but true. Most religious wars are about the 'haves' and the 'have nots' that was why protestism came about and why there is radical Islam. Religion is just the flag around which people gather.

Alumbrado -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 9:13:28 AM)
The observation that US politicians wanting to get a majority of the votes try to appear like as many members of the majority as they can, is hardly denying others their right to worship differently. Kennedy debunked the myth that one had to belong to a specific WASP church to win office, other politicans have debunked the notion that one 'must' be a Chritian at all. When was the last Catholic head of state in England, Denmark, etc, or the last Protestant ruler in Italy? The notion that Europe by contrast has no church state link, sounds fine and grand and all.... Except for that pesky matter of the facts that no religion in the US has the legislated power to tax, or convict, or raise an army, or legally require a politician to belong to a specific denomination etc, as they do in so many other places. So where is the evidence that if the US somehow or another implemented this change that no one is willing to define, the rest of the world would applaud?

Alumbrado -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 9:14:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: Just think, if the US shelved this use of religion, it was banned in politics, what message would that send out to the world, bearing in mind, just about every nation on earth looks to the US and what it is upto to compare itself against ? As I understand it - It wasn't a statement, but a thoughtful question- as yet - as far as I have seen - unanswered by most. The context in which you relate it, without posting the entire context, speaks of A stating it should be prohibited/banned whatever. He did not. He asked that if it was shelved as an example, what would the outcome be for other countries in comparrison. the.dark. Which is exactly what I've been asking, and no one is willing to address.

RCdc -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 9:19:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado When was the last Catholic head of state in England, 1700's. Or Blair-if you mean head of government. the.dark.

RCdc -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 9:22:17 AM)
Which is cool, you both asking the same question.[:)] Personally, I don't think it makes an iota of a difference. The US doesn't have that kind of worldwide impact. the.dark.

celticlord2112 -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 9:29:27 AM)
quote: In America, they simply must be religious. In Europe generally and more specifically in Britain, politicians are elected regardless of having a faith or not. And this is a problem.....how? As an interesting aside, in 2006 Keith Ellison was the first Muslim elected to the US Congress. The first Muslim elected to the British Parliament was Mohammad Sarwar in 1997.

meatcleaver -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 9:29:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado When was the last Catholic head of state in England, Denmark, etc, or the last Protestant ruler in Italy? Since there is no state called England it would be difficult to be the head of state in any religion. However, the Church of England wants to be disestablished, its the politicians (Cathlolics included) that don't want it to be for political reasons. Over 90% of the Danish population is protestant so the chances of a Danish prime minister being anything else is small, however, the Catholic church was recognized in Denmark in 1682. I couldn't tell you if there has been a Catholic Sanish prime minister and I doubt if Danes know themselves. Over 90 % of Italy's population is Catholic, 7% no religion and 1% other Christian, the chances are that an Italian Prime Minister will be a Catholic. However, since we live today and not yesterday, the strongest political body in Europe is the EU, religion is not an issue since the EU allows total freedom of belief and there is no religious affilliation needed to be in any office.

meatcleaver -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 9:31:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado When was the last Catholic head of state in England, 1700's. Or Blair-if you mean head of government. the.dark. Yep, it was an open secret for years that he was a Catholic before he was a Catholic. Who cared? No one. I still hate Blair but not for religious reasons but because he was so irrational and took us into that quagmire Iraq.

sirsholly -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 9:32:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver I've spent quite sometime in America, going to church is like going to a club, there is social pressure to do it and to be seen to do it. your ignorant generalization could be offensive to those of us Americans who go to church for the right reasons....if your opinion mattered. If one of those "right reasons" is to learn tolerance for those who don't share your views, I heartily suggest you go more often. Hon...i have a great deal of tolerance for those who do not share my views. What i have an issue with is his assumption that ALL Americans attend services due to social pressure.

RealityLicks -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 9:33:07 AM)
It's not about the right to worship but the right to worship privately, if at all. Our Foreign Secretary is an atheist. He wouldn't be free to do the same job in your country yet you invoke the hoary myth of the pilgrim fathers and their search for religious freedom. I can't speak for every vagary of law in each European country but EU law is based on democratic principles which allow real freedom of religion - ie, to have none if that is your belief. If any EU country violates that right, an EU citizen has recourse in law. I don't know of any "religious army" except for the Swiss Guard in the Vatican, a ceremonial escort. As for powers to convict or tax; see my comments regarding the European Convention on Human Rights above. Clearly, you last visited Europe during the plague of 1347 or you'd know that things have moved on a little. quote: ORIGINAL: Alumbrado The observation that US politicians wanting to get a majority of the votes try to appear like as many members of the majority as they can, is hardly denying others their right to worship differently. Kennedy debunked the myth that one had to belong to a specific WASP church to win office, other politicans have debunked the notion that one 'must' be a Chritian at all. When was the last Catholic head of state in England, Denmark, etc, or the last Protestant ruler in Italy? The notion that Europe by contrast has no church state link, sounds fine and grand and all.... Except for that pesky matter of the facts that no religion in the US has the legislated power to tax, or convict, or raise an army, or legally require a politician to belong to a specific denomination etc, as they do in so many other places. So where is the evidence that if the US somehow or another implemented this change that no one is willing to define, the rest of the world would applaud?

sirsholly -> RE: Is religion important in politics ? (8/28/2008 9:36:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver I've spent quite sometime in America, going to church is like going to a club, there is social pressure to do it and to be seen to do it. your ignorant generalization could be offensive to those of us Americans who go to church for the right reasons....if your opinion mattered. What are the right reasons for believing in superstition? I can understand people saying they believe for political reasons, that is being rational if not entirely honest. this doesn't even justify a response.[8\|]

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