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RE: Misogyny? - 8/27/2008 10:14:09 AM   
JerryFrankster


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The elk's club finally came out?

Well good for them.


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RE: Misogyny? - 8/27/2008 10:23:25 AM   
Coupleofwhats


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I'm not sure which mens' club you mean. (Workout or a Waterbuffalo Lodge kinda thing?)
In either case: I think that single sex workout facilities are absolutely fine. IME, when it's co-ed, it becomes a meat market. I go to get in shape, not to be catcalled or harassed.

There's a men's club/lodge in Brooklyn that I know of. As long as they're not doing anything nefarious, go for it.

My experience with the child custody-- both in my family and in those of friends and extended family members -- has been that the primary caretaker is awarded the best deal. Unfortunately, women are most often the PC, even when they're married. When my mother divorced, she still had two small ones. Both she and her ex-husband worked, but only she helped with homework. She made them dinner every night. She took them to church. She bought their clothing for school. She took one to school, and I took the other. She and I split PTA responsibilities when I lived at home. Who do you think should get more time with the children? Hell, I should have gotten his part of the custody: I spent more time with them.

And how many people do you know who grew up that way? How many people just know dad as that guy who worked, then sat in his world, watching the game or whatever? Mother's Day generates tons of revenue and packs out restaurants, because in most cases, mom not only worked a job, she put in overtime with the kids. The same can't be said of Father's Day. Or many fathers.

Men can change the outcome of custody battles by being good fathers. If no one can vouch for your parenting and involvement-- if the teachers have never seen your face at Parent-teacher night, if your pastor can't remember the last time you came to service with the kids, if your kids don't feel the need to ask for more time with you -- then you have to ask yourself if you've earned the right to a 50-50 split.

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RE: Misogyny? - 8/27/2008 1:18:30 PM   
goddessAVA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

I haven't noticed this from male subs specifically. I have seen it in some Dom males and some fem subs, usually the later.

~Lashra



Amen you have a witness!!!!! I actually have received death threats from random male doms on my cm profile, at lifestyle events I have come across more then my share of female subs who have actual HATE in their hearts for me, of course this is complicated by my profession but no matter-I take it all with a grain of salt.  People who live their lives based on hate get exactly the kind of life they deserve.......

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RE: Misogyny? - 8/27/2008 2:50:07 PM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: goddessAVA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

I haven't noticed this from male subs specifically. I have seen it in some Dom males and some fem subs, usually the later.

~Lashra



Amen you have a witness!!!!! I actually have received death threats from random male doms on my cm profile, at lifestyle events I have come across more then my share of female subs who have actual HATE in their hearts for me, of course this is complicated by my profession but no matter-I take it all with a grain of salt.  People who live their lives based on hate get exactly the kind of life they deserve.......


Female subs who hate you because your female? Are these subs you know personally? I have heard a lot about men hating women, this is the first I have heard of people having trouble with fem subs hating other females.

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RE: Misogyny? - 8/27/2008 3:09:35 PM   
goddessAVA


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yes these are women who I know somewhat personally......as to the motivations of hate, I'm not the one to ask why-this is an ugly ideology I have excluded from my life, I get angry and dislike people for there actions but HATE.......I think that is based on the individuals irrational b.s.

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RE: Misogyny? - 8/27/2008 3:42:09 PM   
LaTigresse


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Oh good grief yes!! I've gotten some really nasty attitude in the past from hetro sub/slave women!

I just ignore their ignorance and moooooooooooooove on.


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RE: Misogyny? - 8/27/2008 4:26:53 PM   
pinnipedster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: faerytattoodgirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Not me, I hate men.  They should all die.


thats mean...just force them to have sex change...keep 5 for breeding..
.



I heartily agree, provided you start with me!  (I mean on the sex change, though come to think of it, the breeding might not be so bad either...)

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RE: Misogyny? - 8/27/2008 4:46:26 PM   
pinnipedster


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It occurs to me to wonder if at least some of these men don't think they're being provocative.  If you read a lot of FemDom/S&M fiction, a lot of it starts with the man giving a woman a "motive."  He pisses her off somehow, and so she takes up the cuffs and whip to punish him, eventually turning him from a sexist a-hole into a well-behaved, worshipping submissive.  I wonder if they think they're *supposed* to be insulting and disrespectful, that it's their correct starting role.

(Come to think of it, I once played with a woman who insisted I insult her to begin the scene; she couldn't get into a sadistic mindset till I gave her a "reason."  She was generally not dominant by choice, though she certainly did a very nice job of topping once she got into character.  However, she was someone I had known well for quite some time before that, not someone I had just contacted.)

I doubt this is true of most of the cases, but it might be true of a few. 

I know that I seem to have had some trouble in that dominant women find me, at least at first, a little too submissive -- at least, they seem more eager to beat the butts of guys who act a little bratty or smart-assed.  But over-compensating by being openly disrespectful and offensive hardly seems like an appropriate response.  I can't claim that I am totally free from sexism inside -- I'm not sure anyone can, male or female -- but I certainly would not try to open a conversation with a dominant woman by calling her names or insisting she had some obligation to me.  (The only way I can imagine being that way is perhaps in a negotiated role-playing scene where a woman asked me to play some kind of character she could enjoy taking vengence on, but even then I'd have some discomfort with taking it too far.)

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RE: Misogyny? - 8/27/2008 5:14:43 PM   
JerryFrankster


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pinnipedster, it seems to me that that theory is consistent with the challenging nature of the "ur nota real Domme" tactic.

Say, I just realized how awesome a femdom version of  The Taming of the Shrew would be.

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RE: Misogyny? - 8/27/2008 5:36:12 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: goddessAVA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

I haven't noticed this from male subs specifically. I have seen it in some Dom males and some fem subs, usually the later.

~Lashra



Amen you have a witness!!!!! I actually have received death threats from random male doms on my cm profile, at lifestyle events I have come across more then my share of female subs who have actual HATE in their hearts for me, of course this is complicated by my profession but no matter-I take it all with a grain of salt.  People who live their lives based on hate get exactly the kind of life they deserve.......


Female subs who hate you because your female? Are these subs you know personally? I have heard a lot about men hating women, this is the first I have heard of people having trouble with fem subs hating other females.


This TOTALLY happens to me.  There are a couple of Gorean chicks who despise me just for being a dom.  They get soooooo cranky when their men talk to me all polite-like.   It's sad.

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RE: Misogyny? - 8/28/2008 4:09:45 AM   
Dnomyar


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Mmm LH mabey I should stop talking polite to you. It must be a woman thing about women hating each other. Men will just call each other an asshole and move on. Women get anal about disliking another woman.  

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RE: Misogyny? - 8/28/2008 4:36:51 AM   
colouredin


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I think that women hating women is common in many contexts, and as we have already had the subs hating Dommes mentioned i have known Dommes who think female subs are weak and dont like to associate with them

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RE: Misogyny? - 8/28/2008 5:13:41 AM   
DeferentialBaby2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pyrrsefanie

I regularly get emails consisting of the following:

"LOL you're a Republican you suck"
"HAHAHAHA U R PALE"
"You're hot, too bad your fake like the rest of them"

Not all of them necessarily rooted in misogyny but I honestly wonder if they troll their male counterparts' profiles offering up the same advice.  The best misogynistic one I got was when I politely informed a gentleman that my sub was also my husband and therefore would not be interested in taking him on as my slave, and he fired off a nasty email telling me that I was a stupid little girl and I didn't need some beta-male chump and that I'd realize someday I wanted a REAL man.    I think I wrote back and told him to go die of testicular cancer but I can't remember my exact wording.

I think it's the same thing they used to tell us in elementary school -- the boys only make fun of you because they like you.  They're probably just pissy little internet nerds trolling from their mothers' basement who are angry because their last "girlfriend" popped when their neckbeard bristles rubbed the wrong way against the seaming.  They see an attractive woman, instantly feel ANGER RAGE RAWR and have to take it out on some innocent woman who's never even spoken to them before.  Some seem to have rejection issues, i.e. they're all sweet and sugar till you tell them "no" and then the beast flares up.

Some people might think from the tone of this post that I hate men.  I don't.  I just hate shitheads.



I do hate the shitheads, too. Whatever their outward shapes.

I get the sorts of messages you quoted   quite freqently...from dominant men I've never exchanged a word with (mostly), sub men (secondly, yes they write me too, wtf?), and sub women (third, but yeah there is quite a little population that go around writing nastygrams to other sub women).  The only group that consistently doesn't display that boorish behavior and, in the few cases they have written me, write consistently civil emails, are dominant women.

I think one thing that happens is this: these people, whatever their claimed sexual orientation, are emotionally immature to begin with, they get rejected a lot on here as do we all, but they respond to that rejection in a characteristically peevish and childish fashion: They see an attractive woman, assume without even finding out anything about her that she'll reject him like "all the others," and, to avoid facing that outcome, they reject her first which makes them feel like Very Big Boys Indeed. That way the little child is "safe," haha, if you can call being horribly lonely and isolated "safe." It's a very extreme and self-defeating case of "sour grapes."   They can say, "See? She didn't like or respond to my hate mail so she would have rejected me anyway so I was SOOOO SMART to reject her first!" It's funny how our emotions can cause us to loose 50 IQ points in the space of a few seconds. :/

I think that there's another version of this "sour grapes" scenario that is much more common in all people: First the usual rejections, which are par for the course on a personals site (it's HARD to find someone compatible--and impossible if you are a perfectionist without a realistic understanding of people) but which many people take seriously as deep indications of failure. Then, you see an attractive profile, a person with everything you believe you're looking for, but you DO NOT write them precisely because they're attractive, precisely because you are compatible with them.  I guess the thinking goes, "I couldn't bear to be rejected by someone that special and I'm sure they would so I won't even try. At least this way I am "SAFE." Sometimes such people comb the profile to find one little phrase amongst all the stuff that gives them an excuse to DQ themselves (maybe it's "prefer busty" or "like older men"). "Oh! I'm not older than her! Ms Perfect for Me won't be the least bit interested in me! No matter that she stated it was just a general preference and not a hard  disqualifier. _I_ know better! I'm  CERTAIN she really meant she rejects such people on sight--so I won't risk it! I'll stay SAFE." 

What I believe they should be thinking is, "If this person is actually so very close to what I really need, then the chances are quite good that they're looking for someone just like me. And if they're really so wonderful as they seem to be, then they aren't going to get all anal about something like a few inches of chest size or a few years of age difference." 

Third and most common  case of sour-grapitus that I see on the boards goes like this, "This profile is too perfect or close to what I am looking for! This person can't be real...because... because... they have exactly what I need!!! They've GOT to be a fake! I HATE them for being such FAKES and trying to FOOL ME!! I think I'll tell them so or block them or... or... RUN AWAY!"  Fear of getting what one really wants is one of the strongest emotional motivators on personal-ad sites, I think. Many  people on these sites are cowards who really don't want to let anyone into their lives as that would mean (gasp!) CHANGE  and prefer the familiar, even if the familiar is abject lonliness and constant rejection. But they need the illusion, the self-deception that they are willing to change, and thus they clutter up places like this making it hard for those of us who are sincerely searching.

I can't talk about the forums, as I rarely read or post here, but this week has been a strange one on the personal boards with more than the normal number of lunatics out in full force. I've been hit rather hard by the emotional basketcases and extremists in the last ten days and it looks like others in this thread have as well. Maybe the hurricanes are stirring people up? :D Maybe the major-class loonies are on vacation and don't know what to do with their time? Who knows?   I do  think that attractive people, like you, draw more than their fair share of lunatics and emotional shipwrecks, because you  make  a more visible target, something the unstable can latch their illnesses or obsessions on to, although anyone can become the focus of someone's irrational hatred, especially if they happen to look like their Great Auntie Grizelda who gave them soapy enemas every other day. (I don't know about the other orientations, but I've noticed that there are agreat many dominant men in this place who are, figuratively speaking, here only to get revenge on their Great Auntie Grizelda. :p  )

Without a profile picture it's probably a lot easier to fly under the crazies' radar, but one probably get a lot fewer  contacts that way as well. Maybe it would be better. Or maybe you would get different kinds of annoyances, like men with absolutely nothing to offer anyone but overweening selfishness who imagine they're god's gift to you because you must be a total loser if you don't post a picture to begin with. On this site, that scenario wouldn't surprise me in the least.

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RE: Misogyny? - 8/28/2008 9:36:09 AM   
tulitukka


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

The thing is, the men that are writing to me are STARTING from  a position of spite!  "Three years and you haven't found anyone?  NO wonder!".  That sort of thing.  What can their motivation be?  I really find blocking people to be easier than trying to remember their names so I can delete their snark unread.


Perhaps they are experimenting. Trying out different approaches to see, if suddenly one of them actually works and they find a woman of their dreams. After all, you can create all the nicks to the forum you wish to.

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RE: Misogyny? - 8/28/2008 10:44:47 AM   
Coupleofwhats


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quote:

They see an attractive woman, assume without even finding out anything about her that she'll reject him like "all the others," and, to avoid facing that outcome, they reject her first which makes them feel like Very Big Boys Indeed. That way the little child is "safe," haha, if you can call being horribly lonely and isolated "safe." It's a very extreme and self-defeating case of "sour grapes." They can say, "See? She didn't like or respond to my hate mail so she would have rejected me anyway so I was SOOOO SMART to reject her first!"


This wasn't in a kink setting, but illustrates your point beautifully...

I was walking down the street the other day and a man said "Hello" as we passed in opposite directions.
He didn't give me time to react at all. I barely got a chance to nod an acknowledgment before he rolled his eyes and said, "Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm too dark and not all cute like girls want. Whatever!"



It was a like a real-life version of the guerilla nasty email attack: sudden, unprovoked and baffling.

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RE: Misogyny? - 8/28/2008 12:06:01 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

I think that women hating women is common in many contexts, and as we have already had the subs hating Dommes mentioned i have known Dommes who think female subs are weak and dont like to associate with them


It's a boggler, I must say.  I choose my friends based on their human qualities, their orientations are not relevant to whether I like them or not.  I have had sub female friends tell me that they were so surprised to find how sweet I am in IRL, since I am so forceful in type, evidently.  LOL!  Anyway, I am cordial to all, friend and foe.  If a person doesn't want to like me because I'm a dom, that's okay.  I do not lack for friends.

(what kind of moron thinks any sub is WEAK? jeez)

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RE: Misogyny? - 8/28/2008 1:32:59 PM   
Wickad


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(fast reply)

I would like to add just one thing ....

There are not more submissive men than Dominant women.  There are more 'do-me-call-me-submissive-bottom-types' than Dominant women.  A submissive man (and more so a slave male) are very rare in this lifestyle.  What is not rare are men who feel entitled sexually and believe that a Dominant woman exists solely to fullfill their fantasies.

Wickad

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RE: Misogyny? - 8/28/2008 5:10:07 PM   
JerryFrankster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wickad

(fast reply)

I would like to add just one thing ....

There are not more submissive men than Dominant women.  There are more 'do-me-call-me-submissive-bottom-types' than Dominant women.  A submissive man (and more so a slave male) are very rare in this lifestyle.  What is not rare are men who feel entitled sexually and believe that a Dominant woman exists solely to fullfill their fantasies.

Wickad



Would you say that is more true for "submissive" men than for "submissive" women?


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RE: Misogyny? - 8/28/2008 6:04:16 PM   
MzMia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Wickad

(fast reply)

I would like to add just one thing ....

There are not more submissive men than Dominant women.  There are more 'do-me-call-me-submissive-bottom-types' than Dominant women.  A submissive man (and more so a slave male) are very rare in this lifestyle.  What is not rare are men who feel entitled sexually and believe that a Dominant woman exists solely to fullfill their fantasies.

Wickad



Bingo! Wickad, you have hit the nail on the head.
Thank you for saying how many of us feel!
 I totally agree, they are RARE, very RARE indeed!!

< Message edited by MzMia -- 8/28/2008 6:05:46 PM >


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RE: Misogyny? - 8/28/2008 8:01:17 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: goddessAVA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

I haven't noticed this from male subs specifically. I have seen it in some Dom males and some fem subs, usually the later.

~Lashra



Amen you have a witness!!!!! I actually have received death threats from random male doms on my cm profile, at lifestyle events I have come across more then my share of female subs who have actual HATE in their hearts for me, of course this is complicated by my profession but no matter-I take it all with a grain of salt.  People who live their lives based on hate get exactly the kind of life they deserve.......


Female subs who hate you because your female? Are these subs you know personally? I have heard a lot about men hating women, this is the first I have heard of people having trouble with fem subs hating other females.


This TOTALLY happens to me.  There are a couple of Gorean chicks who despise me just for being a dom.  They get soooooo cranky when their men talk to me all polite-like.   It's sad.


That is sad. I guess their are idiots pretty much any where you go. They just don't know what they are missing.

I think your one of the best and I'm not just saying that so I get a hug next time I see ya, I really mean it.



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Profile   Post #: 80
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