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RE: Misogyny? - 8/28/2008 8:02:29 PM   
LadyHibiscus


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Awwww!!  I wish I was a lesbian so I could sweep you away!  (honest! wouldn't that be the coolest?)

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RE: Misogyny? - 8/28/2008 8:53:31 PM   
Wickad


Posts: 428
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Grrrr - sorry this reply was meant for "JerryFrankster" NOT MzMia,

I'm sorry to say but I can't comment on the state of 'submissive' women.  I am not a submissive woman, nor am I seeking to meet a submissive woman and thus I have very little experience with them.

I can say that the submissive women I do know are very sincere in their desire to find a Dominant man.  I have not spoken once with a submissive woman who demands that all her sexual needs be met by a man who has clearly stated they are only interested in a non-sexual relationship. I have also never seen a submissive woman go on to further deride the Dominant for being a whore because said Dominant chooses not to engage in an interaction with them.

Funny, ... but that entire interaction sounds totally screwed up when you change the genders - lol.  Mind you, I thought it sounded totally screwed up before I changed them too.

Wickad

< Message edited by Wickad -- 8/28/2008 8:54:25 PM >

(in reply to MzMia)
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RE: Misogyny? - 8/28/2008 9:23:28 PM   
JerryFrankster


Posts: 188
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Is there anything about sexuality that isn't funny, but screwed up?

Little tiny robots in people's brains telling them "Hey! You know what you really need... You need a Sweedish nurse to hang you by your balls from a ceiling fan and throw raw pork at you."


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Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Misogyny? - 8/28/2008 10:20:57 PM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
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I suppose that I can chime in here from my own specific perspective being transgendered. This is something which in some ways can be put down to an imperfection in society. I'm currently mid-transition, on HRT, and making efforts to unlearn my past and my socialization and to come out of myself more and be myself. This is a very crucial part of my process, the more successful I am here the better I will be functioning in my own developing acquired but more natural female gender role. Much of the problems have been learning to cope with and deal with my own anger and resentment at both genders for having to spend so long in the male gender role coupled with anger directed inwards towards myself and guilt that I allowed this to happen. It was only as recent as last year that I learned to let go of that anger. I chose to rise above it and to move forward regardless.

Most of the time I go through life just the same as everyone else. But there are times when like women I am 'put in my place' by men, and quite often the men don't even realise that they're doing it. However there are times, less frequently so, that I am also put in my place by some women. Indeed, many of the men who frequent the transgendered sites have issues with misogyny, and the actual gynadrophiles (people who seek relationships specifically with the transgendered) are few and far between. To most people the transgendered are the second options for a relationship, the experiment, the experience, the one night stand, the passage of rights even. Not that we are the only pariahs when it comes to relationships.. we are just among them.

In comparison with other websites here on CM I get very little abusive mails, occasionally from a male submissive, but I simply delete such mails and move on. I would probably get much less than most women here on this site, mainly as my profile generates less traffic. Most of the traffic I do receive is pleasant, courteous, understanding, supportive.

There appears to be a curious polarity, almost a running battle if you like, within the BDSM community and the sharp end appears to be in that area lying between the female dominant and the male submissive. Part of the problem appears to lie in self-interest on both sides. Let's face it, not every woman who assumes the title of Mistress is a bona fide dominant female but a vanilla woman 'playing' at being a Mistress for whatever reason. They are in the minority, but they exist in sufficient enough numbers to create problems for some people. On the other side there is a significant higher proportion of self-interested male submissives who are in it only for their own self-gratification. It doesn't matter who the Mistress is, all that matters is that there is a Mistress, and she wears the right clothes, has the right equipment, and agrees to do the right things under the right circumstances. Even in popular media the image of the Domme is quite often a cheapened, sexualized, fetishized version of womanhood, boots with stilletto heels, the Cruella type image. Let's face it also, not all the guys who claim to be male submissives are submissive.

In some ways more than any dommes get almost a reliable insight as to how it feels to be a transgendered female trying to find someone for a relationship, as some of them are treated in exactly the same way - the submissives who suddenly go poof, the ones who don't show up, the ones who are only interested in experiencing whatever kink or fetish what gives them a stiffie with little or no regard for the needs or interests of the domme. How many times has a domme scened with a submissive only to have him go home, happy and fulfilled, leaving her to pack away the toys, get the droplets of wax out of the carpet, take off her fetish gear, remove her make up and slump tired into a cold, empty bed? Sound familiar?

But it's also important to remember that these problems exist because of issues of fear, self-esteem, vulnerability and insecurity. 9 times out of 10 those who express prejudice towards me or direct abuse at me have issues themselves either through their own self-image, perceived gender role or sexuality. I strongly suspect that this is also true when it comes to the topic of the thread. It's annoying, frustrating, painful, hurtful, especially if you are low on self-esteem yourself, but it's just as important to remember that these people are probably hurting just as much as they hurt you.

Part of the problem is also economic. From my own experience I have formed a theory that the more stable the economy and society as a whole the more open and tolerant that society is, and issues affecting tolerance tend to become exacerbated when people are feeling insecure and unhappy about things.

Again, just my 0.02

< Message edited by stella41b -- 8/28/2008 10:22:45 PM >


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(in reply to Wickad)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Misogyny? - 8/29/2008 7:15:13 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Awwww!!  I wish I was a lesbian so I could sweep you away!  (honest! wouldn't that be the coolest?)


That would be ultra cool....but alas I will have to be content to be friends and get hugs.

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Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Misogyny? - 8/29/2008 9:25:57 AM   
Dnomyar


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What is wrong with a Dominat woman fulfilling my fantasies?  Hey I want one of those hugs.

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Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Misogyny? - 8/29/2008 9:27:29 AM   
LadyHibiscus


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You know what you have to do to get one Mr Tease!

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RE: Misogyny? - 8/29/2008 1:56:12 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bottomboy81


If women are free to think men place themselves above women, it means I am free to think women place themselves above men.


You can think whatever you want. Who frankly can stop you until the neo-cons have thoroughly brainwashed the next generations into being nothing but mindless consumers?

Thinking something and that something being reality though are not the same thing. Understanding and seeing the reality is often difficult because we each have our own biases.

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(in reply to bottomboy81)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Misogyny? - 8/29/2008 2:02:40 PM   
thetammyjo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: goddessAVA

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lashra

I haven't noticed this from male subs specifically. I have seen it in some Dom males and some fem subs, usually the later.

~Lashra



Amen you have a witness!!!!! I actually have received death threats from random male doms on my cm profile, at lifestyle events I have come across more then my share of female subs who have actual HATE in their hearts for me, of course this is complicated by my profession but no matter-I take it all with a grain of salt. People who live their lives based on hate get exactly the kind of life they deserve.......


Female subs who hate you because your female? Are these subs you know personally? I have heard a lot about men hating women, this is the first I have heard of people having trouble with fem subs hating other females.


Some of the people who most want to oppress and look down on others are all ready members of that group. Happens in not just matters of sex but also race, religion and economic class.

You want to hear the worst comments and stories and negative slams against a group? Go look in that group.

It may or may not be conscious either depending on what your environment has been and any external resources you may have had access to as a small child when all of us have the majority of our personalities and basic paradigms created.

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Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Misogyny? - 8/29/2008 3:28:58 PM   
MzMia


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Thank you for another wonderful and thoughtful post as usual, stella.
I see you and your situation a lot differently now.
{{{Hugs}}
 

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To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to stella41b)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Misogyny? - 8/29/2008 9:33:07 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wickad

(fast reply)

I would like to add just one thing ....

There are not more submissive men than Dominant women. There are more 'do-me-call-me-submissive-bottom-types' than Dominant women. A submissive man (and more so a slave male) are very rare in this lifestyle. What is not rare are men who feel entitled sexually and believe that a Dominant woman exists solely to fullfill their fantasies.

Wickad



Bingo! Wickad, you have hit the nail on the head.
Thank you for saying how many of us feel!
I totally agree, they are RARE, very RARE indeed!!


Is it really that bad out there? I wonder if such thinking tends to be self-fulfilling? I know that I respond best to women who make me feel competent, which requires them seeing the positive side of what I bring to the table. With a little bit of color and shading, tho, I could probably make a real dirt-bag too.

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Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Misogyny? - 8/30/2008 9:19:12 AM   
NoreenSwan


Posts: 117
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Dirt-bags? Interesting choice of words YOU have chosen to represent the "bottoms". Don't put words into my mouth. If you consider the do me self-entitled bottoms as "dirt bags", knock yourself out. That does not change the facts of my experience. Let me guess. Your an attorney, right. Didn't they teach in you your school of law to gather all the facts so you have enough to stand of four legs? Guess she didn't notice you in her shoes. Try to abandon your armchair psychiatry, if this is indicative of the shallowness of analysis your feeble intellect is limited to. And while you're at it, why don't you leave the reality of her experience to her, thanks. I am far convinced that the do me subs she sees parading around with their self of entitlements is a figment of her imagination. I can personally attest to ones I have met, can you? Nice try. Sheeze.

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Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Misogyny? - 8/30/2008 10:21:59 AM   
MzMia


Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NoreenSwan

Dirt-bags? Interesting choice of words YOU have chosen to represent the "bottoms". Don't put words into my mouth. If you consider the do me self-entitled bottoms as "dirt bags", knock yourself out. That does not change the facts of my experience. Let me guess. Your an attorney, right. Didn't they teach in you your school of law to gather all the facts so you have enough to stand of four legs? Guess she didn't notice you in her shoes. Try to abandon your armchair psychiatry, if this is indicative of the shallowness of analysis your feeble intellect is limited to. And while you're at it, why don't you leave the reality of her experience to her, thanks. I am far convinced that the do me subs she sees parading around with their self of entitlements is a figment of her imagination. I can personally attest to ones I have met, can you? Nice try. Sheeze.


One of the reasons, I have cut way back on posting is I have grown tired of people
changing what I have clearly stated, taking it out of context, twisting it and then
putting words in my mouth.
  post 90 is a great example of this.
Thanks for pointing out how words can be "twisted".
  Noreen!

< Message edited by MzMia -- 8/30/2008 10:49:48 AM >


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Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain


What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to NoreenSwan)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Misogyny? - 8/30/2008 5:52:10 PM   
cloudboy


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The post was self referential -- deprecating. Please note the singular use of "dirtbag."

I don't get why you are flying off the handle here.


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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Misogyny? - 8/30/2008 5:57:02 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
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From: Island Of Misfit Toys
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She's just not used to your humor, Cloudboy!

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Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Misogyny? - 8/30/2008 7:14:28 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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Can't help ya.. I have never had a "misogyny" problem with a sub. 

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Profile   Post #: 96
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