RE: Hillary's speech:opinion's

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FatDomDaddy -> RE: Hillary's speech:opinion's (8/28/2008 5:49:41 AM)
He's a meaningless, powerless politician who costs his wife the Presidential Nomination of the Democrat Party, why would ANYONE care what he has to say? BTW... In a few months, GW Bush will also be a meaningless, powerless politician too. That is the great thing about America.

michaelOfGeorgia -> RE: Hillary's speech:opinion's (8/28/2008 6:05:39 AM)
i share my views on voting and politics with the late, great George Carlin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0u6lCBnRoHQ

caitlyn -> RE: Hillary's speech:opinion's (8/28/2008 6:16:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Seems to me, compared to the US, that europeans on the whole get far more value for money when it comes to taxation. Damn sneaky socialists eh? Well off the "Hillary speech" thread topic. The reason the socialists can accomplish this is that in the EU there is nothing similar to the civil courts of the United States. Why is health care so expensive and costs skyrocket? If a Doctor doesn't give every possible text, MRI, C-Scan, EEG, EKG, et al; and the patient coming in for a hangnail dies of leukemia 6 months down the road - the Doctor and the hospital will be sued by some John Edwards wannabe. Put in Tort Reform or adopt something similar to the UK system of Civil Court and Doctors get to be Doctors again and not insurance loss prevention administrators. Besides there is universal health care in the USA. No emergency ward can refuse treatment. It's why many are bankrupt in the inner city. You may have to wait a few dozen hours to be seen; but you have to wait 6 months to get a tooth pulled in Canada with their system. In some ways you are on to somethign Merc, but statements like the above just kill your point. Do you honestly believe the medical industry soaks us for drugs and tests we don't need, to protect us from lawyers? ... or might it be that the medical industry finds someone with good insurance, under our currently broken system, and milk them for every dollar they can? Drugs are vended at "what the market will bare" as if our health is an iPod or laptop computer ... keeping in mind that the vast majority of advances in medicine was paid for by taxpayers in the first place. Yet another area where I think you miss the boat is linking government waste to a desire by some to have a government that does things for it's citizens. The same way you differ with the notion of "pay now or have our children pay later" as not the only options ... I would differ with your connection between government programs, and government waste. Why can't we have both a government that a) does good things for it's citizens, b) runs efficiently?

Mercnbeth -> RE: Hillary's speech:opinion's (8/28/2008 8:12:07 AM)
quote: Do you honestly believe the medical industry soaks us for drugs and tests we don't need, to protect us from lawyers? Not to protect us, but to protect themselves. Based upon the awards, or just the cost of defense; it is a wise decision on their part. quote: Why can't we have both a government that a) does good things for it's citizens, b) runs efficiently Because you will never get agreement on what is "good things for it's citizens". Is it a "good thing" to provide opportunity for citizens to succeed or is it a "good thing" to prevent citizens from failing? Human nature prevents efficiency. Once a bureaucracy is formed to solve a problem its goal isn't to solve the problem but to continue its existence so that there is a need for the bureaucracy to exist.

caitlyn -> RE: Hillary's speech:opinion's (8/28/2008 7:34:08 PM)
So ... you are just going to totally discount the role of the medical industry in treating our health like a profit center, and instead put the lion's share on lawyers?

Thadius -> RE: Hillary's speech:opinion's (8/28/2008 7:35:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn So ... you are just going to totally discount the role of the medical industry in treating our health like a profit center, and instead put the lion's share on lawyers? I read his commentary as putting the blame on lawyers. Hence the call for tort reform.

caitlyn -> RE: Hillary's speech:opinion's (8/28/2008 9:08:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius I read his commentary as putting the blame on lawyers. Hence the call for tort reform. Texas had massive tort reform in 2003, including pretty serious caps on medical malpractice awards, to the point where it is now next to impossible to sue anyone in the medical industry ... the potential award will not be high enough to encourage any good firm to take the case on contingency. Rates, of course, went up at roughly the same rate they went up everywhere else in the country. So much for the big savings. It is just irresponsible in my view, to point the finger at lawyers, without casting the same sideways glance at the medical money-suction machine and health insurance providers. Lawyers are part of the problem to be sure, but a small part, when balanced against an industry that in many cases, is one step above selling snake oil.

Thadius -> RE: Hillary's speech:opinion's (8/28/2008 9:11:19 PM)
The insurance companies push their costs across the entire spectrum of the states they cover, and yes are pretty damn greedy. Therefore one state doing so will not have the desired effect, it needs to be national. Just my opinion.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Hillary's speech:opinion's (8/29/2008 7:45:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn So ... you are just going to totally discount the role of the medical industry in treating our health like a profit center, and instead put the lion's share on lawyers? Yes from both sides. BTW - the industries involved in health care ARE in it for profits, as are insurance companies. Change that fundamental fact and the dynamic would change. But you still have to fund it from someplace and deal with pragmatic facts of modern medicine. Who makes the decisions to do all that can be done in every case? These decisions are now 'lawyer driven' as much as medical. But no one wants to address the people aspects behind the decisions. For instance, an 84 year old man is diagnosed with a terminal brain tumor. The operation and resulting convalescence has a price-tag of nearly $1 Million; the best case prognosis is maybe another year of 'life'. If that happened today the hospital and, if there is one involved beyond Medicare, would be on the hook to pay for it. As far as the drug industry is concerned, they spend more in 'Marketing' than they do in R&D. Their corporate philosophy is develop a drug then apply it to a disease and SELL SELL SELL! I think those commercials should be banned like cigarette ads have been. Rogaine was a failed blood pressure med until one of the 'side effect' of growing hair in some cases. How many susceptible people go running to their Doctors convinced there is a magic pill to cure their depression that they were convinced they have as a result of a 60 second Superbowl ad? How many males now get their erections in a bottle and have a fantasy of sitting in a bathtub outside overlooking a green valley.

meatcleaver -> RE: Hillary's speech:opinion's (8/29/2008 8:49:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Seems to me, compared to the US, that europeans on the whole get far more value for money when it comes to taxation. Damn sneaky socialists eh? Well off the "Hillary speech" thread topic. The reason the socialists can accomplish this is that in the EU there is nothing similar to the civil courts of the United States. Why is health care so expensive and costs skyrocket? If a Doctor doesn't give every possible text, MRI, C-Scan, EEG, EKG, et al; and the patient coming in for a hangnail dies of leukemia 6 months down the road - the Doctor and the hospital will be sued by some John Edwards wannabe. Put in Tort Reform or adopt something similar to the UK system of Civil Court and Doctors get to be Doctors again and not insurance loss prevention administrators. Besides there is universal health care in the USA. No emergency ward can refuse treatment. It's why many are bankrupt in the inner city. You may have to wait a few dozen hours to be seen; but you have to wait 6 months to get a tooth pulled in Canada with their system. This is not true, you can sue the Health Authority or hospital or doctor in any western European country, people have got millions in damages. However, litigation isn't so deep in the culture here as we don't have a great surplus of desperate for work lawyers searching for clients. As for healthcare itself, Americans pay twice as much as Europeans for health care yet all the stats show the average American gets a raw deal and receives worse health care by far than western Europe (stats accepted by the American medical association. can't remember the proper name.). Twice as much money for an inferior product is not good value in my book. And Americans have a shorter life span than Europeans, with America being the richest country in the world, something is wrong.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Hillary's speech:opinion's (8/29/2008 10:01:08 AM)
MC, Actually agree with the entirety of your post, but wanted to address this part in particular. quote: As for healthcare itself, Americans pay twice as much as Europeans for health care yet all the stats show the average American gets a raw deal and receives worse health care by far than western Europe (stats accepted by the American medical association. can't remember the proper name.). Twice as much money for an inferior product is not good value in my book. And Americans have a shorter life span than Europeans, with America being the richest country in the world, something is wrong. Two factors contribute to this. The first is, those with the ability to pay, must pay for those who don't/can't. An aspirin costs $5 on the bill, because those that can pay the $5, or have insurance which does, must pay for those who don't pay a nickle. I think the second point is culture based. I know of NO executive or business owner in the US who would ever consider taking a 6 week vacation. I'd bet I haven't taken 6 weeks total in the past 6 years. Even when on 'vacation' I can't stop myself from logging into my system and checking out business. I never leave the office, vacation or every night for that matter, without forwarding my direct office line to my cell phone. At one time in my history, I had foreign investors who thought that this common practice of US business people - CRAZY! Even those supposedly more intense and dedicated in the Japanese business model have their wild crazy karaoke bar, geisha girls, and extended vacation trips. In the US - we are our own worst health care administrators. That - and of course - we eat more fat and sugar than any other culture. Recently that has been prevalent even at the elementary school level where our progeny, because they can get a 'boo-boo', aren't allowed to run, or play tag. We continue that non-exercise regime throughout most of our lives. That formula results in an early death.

meatcleaver -> RE: Hillary's speech:opinion's (8/29/2008 11:48:01 AM)
Yes Merc. it is easy to see why American health suffers and costs are higher. My brother who lives in California said that Americans don't know when to slow down or even how to or take time out from work. The last job I had (I work for myself now), I had nine weeks holiday a year, though six or maybe four weeks is more normal. Most European diets (apart from the British diet) are relatively healthy to very healthy on the Med. Also health care here is geared to prevention rather than cure which makes financial sense for a national health service but not for private health cover.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Hillary's speech:opinion's (8/29/2008 11:58:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Yes Merc. it is easy to see why American health suffers and costs are higher. My brother who lives in California said that Americans don't know when to slow down or even how to or take time out from work. The last job I had (I work for myself now), I had nine weeks holiday a year, though six or maybe four weeks is more normal. Most European diets (apart from the British diet) are relatively healthy to very healthy on the Med. Also health care here is geared to prevention rather than cure which makes financial sense for a national health service but not for private health cover. Well, MC I'm shooting for another 3 years here, 5 at most; and then I'm off to Tuscany thanks to Italy providing me duel citizenship due to my ancestry. Once there, I'm going to try my best, and with beth's assistance, I hope to live long enough to be a burden on the EU's health care system.

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