Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 2:07:53 AM   
Nerval


Posts: 2
Joined: 7/11/2004
Status: offline 		The real age problem I'd worry about is the infantile behaviour of some older BDSMers. "Adult" never was more of a misnomer some times, and sadly that's something that years don't seem to alter.

(in reply to Webmaster60)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 2:50:36 AM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Webmaster60

Why do "people" (older) have the idea that younger people are ignorant?
2 possible answers:
1. Thats because they often are. Please stay within "ignorant". NOT stupid, not irresponsible.. There are lots of things that newbies don't know yet.
2. Because age IS an indicator of experience (generally). A person playing in a dungeon aged 40 'may" have less experience then the guy 20 across from him. But age can generally indicate a lack of experience. I've seen more slaves seriously hurt from inexperienced hands (not necessarily "young" hands).


3. Because they haven't got a clue what young people are about nowadays with so much information available, and so much opportunities to start in the lifestyle
4. Because they have other, less honorable, motives for looking down on young people threatening their position.

And there's probably more possible reasons.

Age is a lousy indicator of experience. Sure, a 19yo will probably not have much experience. The problem is the reverse doesn't make sense. You can in no way assume that a 40yo does have that experience. That's where those slaves get hurt from inexperienced hands.

Also, experience is not that important, as long as both players are aware of the lack of experience and deal with it in a responsible manner. What's dangerous is looking down on (young or inexperienced) people so much that they feel that they have to pretend that they do have experience. That's where those slaves get hurt from inexperienced hands.

Finally, experience isn't everything. I know a lot of experienced people doing rope suspensions with 6mm cotton rope because they learned 20 years ago that you should use soft ropes for bondage, but never realised that the breaking strenghth of cotton sucks by the time their experience brought them to more advanced types of play. Experience can also stop people from thinking and rethinking. That is where slaves get hurt from experienced hands.

Roel

(in reply to Webmaster60)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 3:16:29 AM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Guilty1974
I know a lot of experienced people doing rope suspensions with 6mm cotton rope because they learned 20 years ago that you should use soft ropes for bondage, but never realised that the breaking strenghth of cotton sucks by the time their experience brought them to more advanced types of play. Experience can also stop people from thinking and rethinking. That is where slaves get hurt from experienced hands.

Roel


1. If someone has been doing something for "20 years" - I do not imagine they are hurting many people if they are still practitioners of the art. We tend to shun folks who do damage without correcting their issues.
2. Rope does not have to be 'rough' to be 'strong' - so, your adage (although relatively applicable to the simple weave cotton) is not valid.
3. Experience does not stop people from thinking and rethinking - that is stagnation of the mind and egotism... and, happens to people of all ages.

Just a few thoughts - although some of the angst you are spewing is valid to an extent.

~J

< Message edited by LordODiscipline -- 11/25/2005 3:30:42 AM >

(in reply to Guilty1974)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 3:52:57 AM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline


1. If someone has been doing something for "20 years" - I do not imagine they are hurting many people if they are still practitioners of the art. We tend to shun folks who do damage without correcting their issues.
2. Rope does not have to be 'rough' to be 'strong' - so, your adage (although relatively applicable to the simple weave cotton) is not valid.
3. Experience does not stop people from thinking and rethinking - that is stagnation of the mind and egotism... and, happens to people of all ages.

Just a few thoughts - although some of the angst you are spewing is valid to an extent.

~J


1. I didn't say they they were doing suspensions for 20 years, I said they learned that they have to use 6mm cotton 20 years ago (that, down here, is something that has been propagated enormously up to the point where all other ropes were seen as "bad").

2. I did not say that rope has to rough to be strong. I said that "they" are of the opinion that all bondage rope has to be soft, and preferably cotton. I know plenty of soft ropes that are strong enough for full suspensions - 6mm cotton, however, is not one of them. I also know some rougher ropes that are quite suitable for bondage.

3. Yes indeed, it happens to people of all ages. People however sometimes tend to forget it happens to the experienced too. Especially the experienced themselves.

I would appreciate it if you would take a little more care when summarising my points of view before responding, or just cite them literally. Or, if my point of view is unclear (not being a native speaker, that does happen sometimes), just ask.

Roel

(in reply to LordODiscipline)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 4:31:01 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Well lets just take the average guy at 20 comming into the lifestyle and the average guy at 40 comming into the lifstyle. and lets make everything else about them equal that is not directly connected with age.

Both been in the lifestyle a year, now granted there are "some" in each age group with little merit, but we're making this an all other things equal situation for the sake of simplicity. So they are both good guys both attentive to their learning.
By simple virtue of their ages the 40 year old is going to have a wider base of general life knowledge than the 20 year old. I'm not looking down on the younger guy in this case I'm simply saying that if the average person picks up 3 life lessons a year then the 40 year old has 60 life lessons learned more than the 20 year old.

Granted that doesn't make the 40 year old anything other than more experienced that the 20 year old but that is a legitimate difference.

I'm not about looking down on 20 year old Dominants, I simply judge any person based on the level of experience both in and out of the lifestyle, along with dozens of other attributes.

The problem you have is the same problem everyone else starting off without a record of their life in the lifestyle. The human mind works on a logic pattern of similarities and differences based on your collection of what the subject being looked at is according to your own stereotypes. A 25 yr old white male gets put into the 25 yr old white male box and then as more information is collected they get further indexed as one gets to know them. You can want all day long for people to not jdge you by what the last 40 20 yr old Dominants were like, but it isn't going to happen.

I came into the lifestyle at 29-30 and as a single Het male Dominant I had to earn my reputation and let experience and time set me appart from all the other single Het male Dominants. It's not easy to be judged ahead of time and then have to prove yourself, but that is the way the huuman mind works, so one has to simply deal with it.

So at 20 you have to realize that 20 becomes the base point for people's evaluation of you. You are placed in the same box with ALL the other 20 year olds until you show that that's not where you belong.
I in your mind though start with all the other 40 year olds and have to work on being reassigned to another box as well.

In Leather

Archer

(in reply to KurtGranz)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 4:41:01 AM   
shylittleheart


Posts: 101
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		Very well and Very Nicely put Archer Sir. I believe You have hit the nail right on the head again. Your posts are always so full of worldly knowledge, which im affraid to say some lack.
Have a blessed day All,
shy

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 5:01:52 AM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
By simple virtue of their ages the 40 year old is going to have a wider base of general life knowledge than the 20 year old.


That is too simple a statement. There's 40yo's who have never left their home town in life, while others are travelling a lot internationally for their job at 25. There's 40yo's who have never encountered much problems in their lifes, and 20yo's with life experiences the average 60yo doesn't have. Etc. In general your statement might be true, but in many specific cases (and there's plenty of them in the bdsm-scene) this assumption is one that leads to generalisation. Being alive is in no way a guarantee for learning and experiencing, let alone reflecting on it.

What is true, is that young people are often judged by these kinds of "wisdom". And while you say you don't look down on young people for it, many others do. And quite frankly, even without looking down, you are likely to be misjudging a few people.

As I mentioned in the other age-thread, in my country a group was set up years ago by young people, specifically for young people, to gain experience without being looked down upon, and that has had some pretty good results, giving quite a number of young people the self-respect to deal with the older people that do look down upon you. Seems to me that it might be a good idea for young americans to unite themselves too.

Also, I think the problem should not be exaggerated. Most older people I've met in the scene are quite friendly, open, and willing share experience in an appropriate way. What young (and older inexperienced) people usually have to learn is how to deal with the few morons and to get the self-assuredness to do so. Close contacts with other younger people in the lifestyle can really help.

Roel

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 5:52:07 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		OK re read the statement "ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL" The use of Hypotheticals has been long established as a way of eliminating for purposes of discussion other variables, certainly it's too simplified to be accurate in dealing with real people with 4,000,000 variables you cannot account for without using specific people.

If we are going to look only at age then the other unrelated variables have to be eliminated somehow. Otherwise you can give any one of the 4,000,000 other variables that do not have anything to do with age, to show a difference. But that makes the difference not age related and thus not part of the topic being discussed.

Age gives the opportunity to gain experience nothing more and nothing less, if we assume the average numbers of opportunities taken and those not, then the 40 year old will "ON AVERAGE" have many more than the 20 year old.




In Leather

Archer




(in reply to Guilty1974)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 7:25:28 AM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

If we are going to look only at age then the other unrelated variables have to be eliminated somehow. Otherwise you can give any one of the 4,000,000 other variables that do not have anything to do with age, to show a difference. But that makes the difference not age related and thus not part of the topic being discussed.



I disagree with you on that. The fact that you even consider only looking at age, is at the heart of the problem that is being addressed in this topic (that is, the pre-occupation with age on CM). Age is simply one factor to take into account, and one should not look at one factor, but at the whole person.

Roel

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 8:18:01 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I disagree with you on that. The fact that you even consider only looking at age, is at the heart of the problem that is being addressed in this topic (that is, the pre-occupation with age on CM). Age is simply one factor to take into account, and one should not look at one factor, but at the whole person.

Roel/Guilty1974


i believe i have said this before, but i am here looking for my One. i have no interest in play partners, though hold no animus towards those who do. i just cannot imagine a 20 or 30 year age difference would be workable. Many men have tried to convince me, but in ten years i'll be 62 and He'd be 30 or 40; it just does not make sense to me. However, some men of a younger age have become friends, and i treasure them.

candystripper

(in reply to Guilty1974)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 9:12:57 AM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

i believe i have said this before, but i am here looking for my One. i have no interest in play partners, though hold no animus towards those who do. i just cannot imagine a 20 or 30 year age difference would be workable. Many men have tried to convince me, but in ten years i'll be 62 and He'd be 30 or 40; it just does not make sense to me. However, some men of a younger age have become friends, and i treasure them.



Sure, I don't really feel attracted to 50-60yo women either. But we were talking about looking down on young people and stuff like that. Obviously you don't look down on your friends. You're not saying "you can't be a Dom" or "you're just a horny teen" or something like that as many people do. That you look for someone your age as a life partner is not that strange.

Roel

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 9:17:33 AM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:


1. I didn't say they they were doing suspensions for 20 years, I said they learned that they have to use 6mm cotton 20 years ago (that, down here, is something that has been propagated enormously up to the point where all other ropes were seen as "bad").


Saying and meaning.

You said:
quote:

Finally, experience isn't everything. I know a lot of experienced people doing rope suspensions with 6mm cotton rope because they learned 20 years ago that you should use soft ropes for bondage, but never realised that the breaking strenghth of cotton sucks by the time their experience brought them to more advanced types of play. Experience can also stop people from thinking and rethinking. That is where slaves get hurt from experienced hands.


I do not see suspension mentioned; and, the inference is that they have been using cotton ropes and doing what they are doing for twenty years... not sure where my misunderstanding was here. Please explain.

quote:

2. I did not say that rope has to rough to be strong. I said that "they" are of the opinion that all bondage rope has to be soft, and preferably cotton. I know plenty of soft ropes that are strong enough for full suspensions - 6mm cotton, however, is not one of them. I also know some rougher ropes that are quite suitable for bondage.


Please go back and re-read what you wrote. This is not what you stated in the earlier posting. And, my response is more reflective of the actual verbage.... although this does make it more clear.

quote:

3. Yes indeed, it happens to people of all ages. People however sometimes tend to forget it happens to the experienced too. Especially the experienced themselves.


I would challenge that... please do provide information where this is so. The reason I say this, is it is a prejudice... and, prejudices are often based on assumption. And, this appears an assumption.

quote:

I would appreciate it if you would take a little more care when summarising my points of view before responding, or just cite them literally. Or, if my point of view is unclear (not being a native speaker, that does happen sometimes), just ask.


I understand that English may not be your first language, and will take more care in reading your posts not to estimate your usage...

At the same time, your colloquials are incorrect in the assumptions you are making about "what you wrote" and "what you believe you wrote"...

I am a rather exacting reader... please be a more exacting writer.


As to the postings in general:

If your determination is that "experienced people are more dangerous because they tend to not think about what they are doing" - I can provide evidence to the contrary within the context of driving records maintained by the insurance companys.... so this will not wash.

~J


< Message edited by LordODiscipline -- 11/25/2005 9:19:24 AM >

(in reply to Guilty1974)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 10:41:44 AM   
Guilty1974


Posts: 467
Joined: 11/2/2005
From: Den Haag
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LordODiscipline

I am a rather exacting reader...



I'm afraid you are not (especially since it happens only very rarely that I'm misread like this). I think I can safely ignore you in the future.

Roel

(in reply to LordODiscipline)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 10:58:46 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline
quote:

Sure, I don't really feel attracted to 50-60yo women either. But we were talking about looking down on young people and stuff like that. Obviously you don't look down on your friends. You're not saying "you can't be a Dom" or "you're just a horny teen" or something like that as many people do. That you look for someone your age as a life partner is not that strange.

Roel/Guilty1974


Firstly, i believe everyone deserves respect (unless they do something to lose that). Second, as a submissive woman who only found D/s in Jan '04, i have no basis for telling anyone they have no real interest/experience/knowledge as to D/s or M/s. i find my young Dom friends quite well-read and somewhat experienced and i value Their opinions just as i do my older Dom friends.

candystripper

< Message edited by candystripper -- 11/25/2005 10:59:24 AM >

(in reply to Guilty1974)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 11:58:43 AM   
LordODiscipline


Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline 		Please do.

~J
quote:

ORIGINAL: Guilty1974

I think I can safely ignore you in the future.

Roel


(in reply to Guilty1974)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 12:57:43 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		This is none of my business, but i thought i'd say: it saddens me when two strong voices on the boards come to an impasse and cannot continue the discourse. It also seems crude, to me, to announce that You are going to block someone. Just quietly block; after all, there is no need for the last word or any parting shot if You have determined that someone is not worthy of Your attention.

JMO.

candystripper

(in reply to LordODiscipline)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 1:27:13 PM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nerval

The real age problem I'd worry about is the infantile behaviour of some older BDSMers. "Adult" never was more of a misnomer some times, and sadly that's something that years don't seem to alter.




You do know that there is a whole ageplay regression infantialist fetish right? it's not seen to much on here but it is a valid kink to re enact childhood stuff. like being a baby or a toddler or a adult inner child.


All though the infintial behavor you mentioned prolly is just people acting like a shit lol

(in reply to Nerval)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 1:28:54 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		There is a "preoccupation" with age on Collarme, and the internet in general, because along with gender, geographic location, and orientation, it is a prime filter for choosing a suitable partner.

I am approached by many younger men, here on a.com, and on AIM. I am an old lady in the scene, and as such I feel it's my responsibility to help out new folks, point them to the right resources, etc. I am not attracted to young men as play partners. A person young enough for me to have given birth to is just *not* an erotic object for me, regardless of physical beauty. For me, a male in his 20's hasn't grown into his brain yet. I have friends who feel very differently, and love to have youngsters fresh out of the box to play with and teach.

When I say "no thank you" to these young men, I am more often than not accused of being prejudiced against the young! And How Dare I! This kind of defensiveness is not something I see in older people. Preferring to consort with a particular age group is a *preference*. It does not mean that I am picking on the young folks, that I think they should be banned, or whatever.

If memory serves me, the OP also started a thread on body maintenance, and on how folks just Let Themselves Go. Well, young one, I could tell you about lengthy illnesses, family tragedy, working long hours, and a boatload of other stuff. So could many of the old folks who you say are "looking down" on you. I am not going to bother.

Search for a TNG group in your area, or start one. Get out and meet people. Learn to keep your eyes and ears open, and your mouth closed, until you have something appropriate to say. (that is not a slam, just a bit of useful advice, appropriate everywhere)

Good luck

Ms Francine

_____________________________

[page 23 girl]



(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 2:04:54 PM   
raney


Posts: 18
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		i have to admit, i have fallen into the he has to be a certain age mindset. my first two husbands were older than me, 7 years and 9 years. throughout my entire life, i always dated older men. maybe it was because i figured if they were older, they were surely Dominant. LOL how screwed was my thinking? well, my 3rd, and final husband <first one was a divorce, second passed away> is only 23. 6 years younger then me, and a total novice when it comes to bdsm. I on the otherhand, have known i was submissive for at least ten years. err.. i have been able to put a "term" to what i am for ten years now. when i asked Him out for coffee, i was highly manic, and i didnt realize He was only 22 at the time. when i was driving Him home, i asked how old He was, He told me, and i then had to pick my jaw up off the floor. i thought He was in His late 20's. it is all about how you carry yourself. Yes, He is only 23, yes, He can act His age at times, but that keeps me feeling young too. when you are 29 and have an 11yr old and 7 yr old, you start to treasure those times when you can really kick back, and BE young at heart. i didnt stay stuck on the age thing. i accepted it and moved on. i wanted to get to know Him better. age became just a number to me. and no, at the time, i did NOT know He was/could be Dominant. although He knew i was submissive. anyway.. this has gotten wayyyyyyyyy long. just my opinion, age does NOT matter. He has accepted this lifestyle now wholeheartedly and i wouldnt trade him for someone with twice the years on Him or twice the experience. we are learning and growing together. besides <giggle> He is a clean slate. lol.. can i actually say that i get to "train" Him? nahhh didnt think so. i guess what im trying to say, is that, open your eyes, even though He may be a young Dom/Master, give Him a chance, you may be pleasantly surprised, like i was <grins>


stephanie

(in reply to Webmaster60)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme - 11/25/2005 3:35:54 PM   
Elegant


Posts: 1024
Joined: 3/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

What is true, is that young people are often judged by these kinds of "wisdom". And while you say you don't look down on young people for it, many others do. And quite frankly, even without looking down, you are likely to be misjudging a few people.

What makes you sat that Master Archer is likely to be misjudging a few people?


quote:

As I mentioned in the other age-thread, in my country a group was set up years ago by young people, specifically for young people, to gain experience without being looked down upon, and that has had some pretty good results, giving quite a number of young people the self-respect to deal with the older people that do look down upon you. Seems to me that it might be a good idea for young americans to unite themselves too.


Oh, it is a grand idea! Such a fabulous idea that 'young people' groups have been created and in operation in the USA for many years already! A simple Google search for TNG, The Next Generation, BDSM Youth and BDSM Whippersnappers will give links to many of these organizations.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

If we are going to look only at age then the other unrelated variables have to be eliminated somehow. Otherwise you can give any one of the 4,000,000 other variables that do not have anything to do with age, to show a difference. But that makes the difference not age related and thus not part of the topic being discussed.

quote:

Guilty1974
I disagree with you on that. The fact that you even consider only looking at age, is at the heart of the problem that is being addressed in this topic (that is, the pre-occupation with age on CM). Age is simply one factor to take into account, and one should not look at one factor, but at the whole person.


Master Archer was answering the basic question that was presented in your very first post:
quote:

Why is it so hard for some people to relate to younger people?





< Message edited by Elegant -- 11/25/2005 3:38:31 PM >

_____________________________

Elegant
~Slave To Master Archer

http://www.FantasiesInLeather.com

(in reply to raney)
Profile   Post #: 40
Page:   <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Ask a Master >> RE: The Pre-occupation with age on Collarme Page: <<   < prev  1 [2] 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.109