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Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 1:51:57 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline 		The nature of this post may seem a bit odd coming from a male dominant, however it's something that has been a small quark of mine for a number of years.

When complete strangers in a none professional setting call me "Sir", there are moments when I hault people from doing so in professional settings as well.

Let me attempt to explain this as best as I can.  When dealing with other people, I desire to be more personal.  I'd rather have them address me by my first name.

In fact, I'm probally the last person on the face of the earth to get upset if somebody does not call me "Sir".   I realize that somebody addressing me as "Sir" is a matter of manners and etiquette.  However, it's something that I personally feel is reserved space for slave protocol.   Basically "Sir" is actually too close and personal for me on some levels.   At the same time a complete stranger addressing me as "Sir" also feels too distance and not personal enough.   I realize that I'm expressing two opposing reactions it brings in my headspace.

Anyways, in terms of Social Engineering and getting close to other people, I prefer to share with them my first name and ask them what their first name is.  I tend to do this with anybody I come into contact with.   It's one of my ways of getting past the cold impersonal walls of social grace and standing.  To actually make myself closer to the people I'm dealing with. 

When hault somebody from calling me "Sir", it's may way of taking control, and stepping and getting closer to somebody, I'm intentionally engaging in a form of Social Engineering.  Where only people close to one another call each other by first name.

I actually find I have more social control or influence with strangers, if I make them call me by my first name instead of "Sir".  plus it does not put me in a confusing headspace as well.  Somebody calling me "Sir" is about like some stranger calling me "Master".  At the same time being called "Sir" really is very distance cold and impersonal to me at the same time.  I make it no secret the two knee jerk reactions it gives me.

Anyways, I have on many occasions stopped somebody from calling me "Sir", trust me, they were suprised that I asserted myself in such a manner.  What's amazing is that I have found my social power in the use of first names with people compared to any friggen protocals on the face of the planet.  I take a sincere interest in the people I cross paths with as well.  It's not a game of insincere flattery and bullshit.  If I can make a person laugh or smile for a moment, I'm totally high off from having touched somebody's life for a moment.   This could be taken for a form of Social Topping, where I'm shooting intentionally for an emotional reaction.  Yes, I enjoy doing this.  Some people have this negative view of control and our abilities to effect other people.

Now, I realize some people must think I'm letting my orientation get a little too far to my head.  However I beg to differ, if you feel that is the case.  I honestly don't know how some people will respond to this post.  That perhaps I'm supporting the ruin of manners and polite etiquette in our modern day society.  I would say this to the Nay Sayers.  When was the last time you made a complete stranger smile, put them at a state of ease, made them feel comfortable, made somebody laugh when it was clear they were having a crappy day?

I'm refering to concepts that go deeper besides meaningless superficial etiquette protocals.  I'd rather have somebody calling me "Sir" and meaning it with their whole heart, compared to hearing it from a complete stranger.  When a complete stranger does it, it sounds so cold and distant.  Oh wait, that's because it actually is.

So Tear down the walls, is my motto.  Time to step inside the persons mind I'm dealing with for a moment.  How shall I make them laugh, how can I sincerely brighten their day for a moment.  Make their world a little less cruel and cold for the day.

As a result of this, I find I don't go to resturants and get crappy service, people actually give me the best of their attention and service.  It's a sincere tradeoff.  I'm not doing anything morally or unethically wrong.  In fact, I'm sort of treating it like a micro relationship at the moment.

Don't call me Sir, please......

I know I can't be the only one that thinks or feels this way.  Perhaps, I'm just a different kind of Dom Animal compared to many of my peers.  Perhaps, I should be outted and burned at the stake for making this post.

I find more power in having people not call me "Sir" and call me by my first name.  Actually, if I'm dealing with a stranger that does not use etiquette protocols,  I'll ask them their first name, and introduce myself.  I'll use their name when addressing them.

Anyhoo... I just wanted to share this with other people.  See what kind of knee jerk responses I get for it. 
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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 2:03:51 AM   
Nikolette


Posts: 488
Joined: 10/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:


Don't call me Sir, please......

I know I can't be the only one that thinks or feels this way.


I don't want called Sir, either!!! So you're right about that.


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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 2:11:57 AM   
MaamJay


Posts: 2101
Joined: 9/2/2005
Status: offline 		Master hates being called Sir by anyone, it just has unpleasant school overtones for Him. No sub will ever call Him Sir, it's His first name, Master, or Master -name-. Sirring isn't all that common here in laidback Australia, where it does happen in passing in a shop, He overlooks it though there's always that fleeting look of annoyance goes across His face. If it someone He is likely to have more ongoing contact with, He will put a stop to the Sir and give His first name. Whereas I admit, I like to be called Ma'am in a shop etc LOL ... maybe cos I currently don't have a subby to hear it from!

Maam Jay aka violet[A]

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Life is a song ... and I love singing it! (By me!)

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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 2:20:39 AM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline 		In many beliefs systems, including the old pagan ways of Europe (where most of our westernized social etiquette were created), names have POWER and were often hidden. It's my guess that this is why telling someone our first name seems more intimate than a form of address. It's a deep rooted thing we've grown up with over the centuries.

Master Fire


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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 2:21:05 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		My knee-jerk reaction is:  Oh by all the gods don't spend any time here in the South!

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No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 2:24:55 AM   
scifi1133


Posts: 8529
Joined: 3/27/2007
From: virginia
Status: offline

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awwwwwww yeeeeeeeeah
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My heart 10-01-72 / 10-16-09


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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 2:26:18 AM   
DMFParadox


Posts: 1405
Joined: 9/11/2007
Status: offline 		No, you do not gain power through familiarity.  Common misconception.  One that con artists use all the time against you.

And convincing people that you don't require a nod to your position above them will also convince them that you are not above them.  If that's your goal, well and good.  But that's not what you wrote, so allow me to enlighten you.

You gain power through uncertainty.

'Sir' from a stranger should not be fought against; just try to live up to it, would you?

< Message edited by DMFParadox -- 8/28/2008 2:27:09 AM >

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bloody hell, get me some aspirin and a whiskey straight

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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 2:46:27 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened
My knee-jerk reaction is:  Oh by all the gods don't spend any time here in the South!


I lived in Mobile, AL (heartland of Dixie) for 10 years of my life.  :-P 

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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 2:53:22 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DMFParadox

No, you do not gain power through familiarity.  Common misconception.  One that con artists use all the time against you.

And convincing people that you don't require a nod to your position above them will also convince them that you are not above them.  If that's your goal, well and good.  But that's not what you wrote, so allow me to enlighten you.

You gain power through uncertainty.

'Sir' from a stranger should not be fought against; just try to live up to it, would you?


I have this Amazing book that is still on my bookself.  While I was reading it years ago, I started doing the things that it spoke about doing.   I discovered an Amazing new world opening up before me.  I'm very thankful for some of the things I learned from that book.

"How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie

It's not a book about how to Con people, how to be insincere and flatter people with Bullshit.  However, the basic principals of what is contained in this book are very powerful.   The thing is you have to be honest else you'll fall flat on your ass.

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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 2:54:31 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

In many beliefs systems, including the old pagan ways of Europe (where most of our westernized social etiquette were created), names have POWER and were often hidden. It's my guess that this is why telling someone our first name seems more intimate than a form of address. It's a deep rooted thing we've grown up with over the centuries.

Master Fire


Very interesting thought, very interesting indeed.  Thank you.

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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 3:02:22 AM   
Evility


Posts: 915
Joined: 12/19/2007
Status: offline 		I "Sir" or "Ma'am" every person I know on a first name basis from time to time in discussion when the response is appropriate. If someone made a point of insisting that I not refer it them as Sir I would attempt to oblige but I'd probably shake my head and try to end the discussion as quickly as possible. It freaks me out when people try to pretend that they know me when they do not.

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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 3:36:46 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Evility

I "Sir" or "Ma'am" every person I know on a first name basis from time to time in discussion when the response is appropriate. If someone made a point of insisting that I not refer it them as Sir I would attempt to oblige but I'd probably shake my head and try to end the discussion as quickly as possible. It freaks me out when people try to pretend that they know me when they do not.


I totally understand and relate with you 100% on this.  The keywords you used are when people try to pretend that they know me when they do not.

As per my previous comments and remarks, it's not about pretending, the whole spin of bullshit and insincere flattery.   It's about getting to sincerely know somebody.   I would never come off in a manner where I would pretend to know you.  However, I would be sincere in wanting to get to know you more on some deeper level.   This involves me being open and honest and sincere.

However, I do totally relate with you 100% on this.  I tend to be more aware of people trying to butter me up, by pretending that they know me without making an effort of any kind to get to know me.  Actually, it annoys me when this occurs.  One might find me responding to such a person in a manner such as this "Well Bob, you honestly don't know me and I don't know you, but you strike me as guy that's more concerned about trying to get to do buy into what you're selling me. So let's drop the pretext here for a moment and get down to business."  I've been so blunt with people at times it's not funny.

Certain types of Sales people can be the worst to deal with.  How they interact with you is very predictable.  What kills them is when you want to go from A to Z and pass every step up in their sales pitch outline.  Hell, I've actually totally walked away from them letting them know they simply insulted my intelligence.  All the bullshit in the world is not selling me on some over priced crappy product.  All the bullshit in the world won't make me buy into their ideas or whatever else.

Actually, if anything if you read  "How to Win Friends and Influence People" by Dale Carnegie, you'll be able to spot people that are trying to manipulate you in a bad way pretty quickly.

Whenever, I get somebody to drop the "Sir" off from a conversation, it's done pretty light hearted and with consideration for the other person.  I don't try to treat them like a life long buddy.  I just met the person for the first time and don't know much of anything about them.

I could never become a sales person that follows some scripted sales pitch line.  In fact, many sales people are less then honest and will be trying to sell you snake oil when you don't want, need or have any use for it.

I'm the type of guy, that will stand there and say, "let's cut to the chase".   If they refuse to cut to the chase as I'm requesting, then game over.   I'm might say "Bob, I realize you have to attempt to sell me this using a scripted sales pitch line.  But I don't have time for this.  I'm sorry your job must be aweful, how many times do you get turned down a day?"

Somebody mentioned something about gaining power through uncertainty, I'm pretty certain that I have blown a few minds in my social interactions with others.   If anything I have found the power of truth and honesty throws people off.

I have had the pleasure of complete strangers acting like they are my bestest friend ever.  It's amazing how people want to be your best friend when you are playing in a band out at the bars and clubs.   I honestly do understand where you are coming from in this post.   People pretending to know somebody they do not.

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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 4:54:49 AM   
CalifChick


Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline 		I'd have to see you in action on this one.  I have a couple of friends (acquaintances now) who do that with waitstaff, and it is annoying as hell.  When I have a meal in a restaurant, I don't want to know the waitstaff's kids' names, their pet's name, what their other job is, etc.  I want them to bring me what I ordered, I want my drink refilled when it is getting low, and I want them to leave me alone.  The people that I've dined with that (for lack of a better phrase), "turn on the charm" with the waitstaff, introducing themselves, getting overly friendly, well, it just ends up ruining the meal, because we'll be having a nice conversation, then here comes the waitress, and BOOM!!!, here comes the charm.

Perhaps it's all in the delivery.

With some people I've worked with who were higher up the food chain, I noticed that when they were frazzled or having a bad day, a well-timed "Sir" brightened their day.  Perhaps it reminded them that they were indeed in charge, that I was there to serve them, whatever, I don't know, I just know it helped.

Cali



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AKA "The Undisputed Goddess of Sarcasm", "Big Bad Cali" and "Yum Bum". Advisor to the Subbie Mafia, founding member of the W.A.C. and the Judgmental Bitches Brigade, member of the Clan of the Scarlet O'Hair-a's and Team Troll

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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 5:05:12 AM   
TNstepsout


Posts: 1558
Joined: 8/3/2005
Status: offline 		While I can understand your position on being called Sir, you have to realize that your perception of the term is very personal and therefore you should not take offense or make others feel awkward if they inadvertently get your hackles up by attempting to be polite and show respect. It is a commonly accepted standard that Sir and Ma'am are terms of respect, so a stranger has no way of knowing beforehand that you have an unusual response to those terms. 

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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 5:10:50 AM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		I only call men sir in social or professional settings where the word I would rather use is asshole.
If I barely know them and they are older it is Mr this or that.
If its professional and I want to put them at ease its their first name (usually how they introduce themselves)
If they are total dicks, it is always sir.
It has nothing to do with respect to me, I just do not cuss.
Kyst

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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 5:18:11 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CalifChick

I'd have to see you in action on this one.  I have a couple of friends (acquaintances now) who do that with waitstaff, and it is annoying as hell.  When I have a meal in a restaurant, I don't want to know the waitstaff's kids' names, their pet's name, what their other job is, etc.  I want them to bring me what I ordered, I want my drink refilled when it is getting low, and I want them to leave me alone.  The people that I've dined with that (for lack of a better phrase), "turn on the charm" with the waitstaff, introducing themselves, getting overly friendly, well, it just ends up ruining the meal, because we'll be having a nice conversation, then here comes the waitress, and BOOM!!!, here comes the charm.

Perhaps it's all in the delivery.

With some people I've worked with who were higher up the food chain, I noticed that when they were frazzled or having a bad day, a well-timed "Sir" brightened their day.  Perhaps it reminded them that they were indeed in charge, that I was there to serve them, whatever, I don't know, I just know it helped.

Cali

Cali... believe it or not I'm cringing at some thoughts.  I have been with people that get too friendly to the point of asking about their kids and pets. There's a limit to how far to go.  Yes, it does and can ruin a meal.  Actually, I find myself thinking to myself.  Wow, what a line of social shit the person I'm with just layed out.  It's nothing more then flattering bullshit in my book.

Lord, I keep things much more simple and above the board.  I myself have Zero interest in what the name of somebody kids are, what kind of pet they own.  People that tend to do this while going out at a resturant are very predictable and you want to gringe each and every time they start in with their line of Bull shit.   It is very distracting and rude, and takes the focus away meal time conversation.

I use the honest, sincere and spontaneous approach.  It involves observation, tact, and not creepy sounding pick up lines or methods.  Most of my interaction is based upon reading the situation, along with observations, and having a sense of humor.

However, I know exactly the type of people are you talking about.  Just makes me want to eat my meal and get the Hell out of there as quickly as I can, or else bitch slap somebody upside the head for being so insincere and full of shit. 

I'm shaking my head here now.... Thinking about how much I hate this one.  It's a pet peeve of mine.  I have had to suffer through some business lunches and dinners with people doing this.  I was not impressed by their scripted mindless approach.  Why? Because they really could honestly give a rats ass less about the Waitress and her life.  Which in my book actually is disrepective in itself.   It's certainly not sincere nor is it honest conversation that is being engaged in, it's pointless and a waste of time. 

You have to remember, waitresses hear this same old crap all the time.  They know the drill, they know when somebody is playing them this way.  They just put on a smile and play along, rolling their eyes after walking away from the table.  LOL...

How do I know all this?  Because I've had some great conversations with waitresses.  Where they are completely comfortable and honest in sharing these things with me.   Some people don't understand that they are making a complete Jackass out of themselves with this.  

I'm really shaking my head now... this makes me cringe.


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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 5:19:33 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I only call men sir in social or professional settings where the word I would rather use is asshole.
If I barely know them and they are older it is Mr this or that.
If its professional and I want to put them at ease its their first name (usually how they introduce themselves)
If they are total dicks, it is always sir.
It has nothing to do with respect to me, I just do not cuss.
Kyst

OMG... thank you!  I'm sitting here laughing my ass off. 

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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 5:26:21 AM   
WhiplashSmile2


Posts: 526
Joined: 6/11/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

While I can understand your position on being called Sir, you have to realize that your perception of the term is very personal and therefore you should not take offense or make others feel awkward if they inadvertently get your hackles up by attempting to be polite and show respect. It is a commonly accepted standard that Sir and Ma'am are terms of respect, so a stranger has no way of knowing beforehand that you have an unusual response to those terms. 


Which is an issue, I have had to work on in the last couple of years.  It's ok to let it slide... and not let it get to me too much.  Yes, an issue that I've had to work on some in the last couple of years.

I was pretty trigger happy about 10 years ago.  With remarks such as  "Sir, makes me feel like an old man", "Sir, makes me feel like I'm in the military", "Please you don't have to call me Sir, my name is Chaz"...

In the last couple of years, I've been letting is slide some.  Letting people off the hook.  I know nobody is meaning any offense.

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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 5:28:31 AM   
DavidS8ist


Posts: 97
Joined: 7/8/2004
From: NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TNstepsout

While I can understand your position on being called Sir, you have to realize that your perception of the term is very personal and therefore you should not take offense or make others feel awkward if they inadvertently get your hackles up by attempting to be polite and show respect. It is a commonly accepted standard that Sir and Ma'am are terms of respect, so a stranger has no way of knowing beforehand that you have an unusual response to those terms. 


Let me put this in a different perspective.  My name is David.  I introduce myself that way.  When someone with whom I regularly interact calls me "Dave", I correct them.  See, I *hate* the name "Dave".  It makes me cringe.  So I'll politely tell them that I really prefer "David".

Now, if it's in a casual setting and I'm called Dave - the gym, for example, where my exposure to someone is the length of a couple of sentences while lifting weight - I let it go.  It's a meaningless situation.

But professionally, I get my hackles up if someone calls me "Dave" after I've corrected them.  If I correct them more than once and they persist, I take it as an insult.

So.

If someone wishes to be polite and I've told them that "sir" makes me uncomfortable coming from someone not in service to me, why shouldn't my preferences be respected?  And sure, I get the whole Southern "Sir/Ma'am" thing and I'm not talking about that.  Hell, when I'm down south, *I* use "sir" and "ma'am".  That's a regionalism and it doesn't carry the same meaning as "sir" does in our circumstances.

I have no page in Burke's.  Therefore, unless you've been taken into my service, you have no need to call me "sir".  There is *no* dynamic of disparate authority between us.  Ergo, we're equals.  I'm David to all, save those who serve me.

(And by the by, the same holds for folks who call me "master".  I ain't *their* master!)

D.
“The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it.”
- George Bernard Shaw

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RE: Don't call me Sir, please.... - 8/28/2008 5:52:25 AM   
nhite


Posts: 85
Joined: 8/28/2007
Status: offline 		it makes all the sense in the world to me!!!  i actually love how you think on this issue :)

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