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Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 11:58:41 AM   
tttdawg


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I've become to introduce my girlfriend to BDSM and an thought I'd ask you guys for some help. While she is open to try new things she sometimes uses the excuse that "I can't be mean." (I'm naturally submissive btw).

Now as I sat there I was thinking of what to say but drew a blank. Is someone who is very kind and nice in all aspects of life psychologically unable to be quote mean or dominant in the bedroom?
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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 12:12:37 PM   
chamberqueen


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There is a big difference between being dominant and being mean.  Ask her what she considers mean:  she may not be into verbal humiliation, much pain, being called names, etc. yet would willingly follow any command as long as she feels that she is respected as a person.  She may have images in her head of ball gags and whips.  Introduce her to the joy of a blindfold and a feather; explain to her your desires after you have patiently listened to hers.  No doubt you can find more than enough common ground to make the experience very enjoyable for both of you.

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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 12:30:55 PM   
Lashra


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If I understood your post correctly then here is my reply. If not then just disregard it.
Women are generally taught that hitting someone is "mean" and that ladies do not do it. So if your trying to teach her to be more Dominant you are going to have to take it slowly. Remember there are years of conditioning that your going to have to do away with. Also is she naturally Dominant? if not she may never be the Domme of your dreams.

~Lashra


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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 12:35:11 PM   
SingleRarity


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My Daddy is very nice and kind.  He is also a sadistic, cruel, bastard.  So my answer to your question is no.  However, she may not have dominance in her, and that has nothing to do with how nice, or kind she is.

Cheers,

Daddy's Ballerina, e

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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 12:57:54 PM   
chamberqueen


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Please excuse my first post - I had the situation backwards.  (Brain fart)  Same basic principle though - giving commands does not need to be "mean".

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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 2:11:54 PM   
E2Sweet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tttdawg

I've become to introduce my girlfriend to BDSM and an thought I'd ask you guys for some help. While she is open to try new things she sometimes uses the excuse that "I can't be mean." (I'm naturally submissive btw).

Now as I sat there I was thinking of what to say but drew a blank. Is someone who is very kind and nice in all aspects of life psychologically unable to be quote mean or dominant in the bedroom?


Indeed being mean and being dominant are two different concepts in my mind. I'm of the opinion that a dominant that exudes sexual and sensual power is quite different than one who sporadically delves into fits of pre-rehearsed anger-speak.

I might be worth mentioning that those who have been involved in BDSM for some time usually have had the opportunity to work out the differences in regard to the terminology and language specific to what it is that we do. Those that are new and just now coming into this are prone to mix up some of the terms and concepts, and often times are even a bit lost in their pre-conceived notions of how one should behave when in role. I sort of see that happening here, based on what you're saying.

She is clearly equating being mean with erotic dominance/domination, and again, that's a fairly common thing for someone who's new to this. When I see or hear this, the first thing I suggest is to find some do-able method to learn more about the concept of BDSM and go from there, applying what you and she are learning as you go. I suggest looking into BDSM informational websites (not porn), instructional videos (not porn), books (S&M 101 by Jay Wiseman is good) , seeking out a skilled mentor for her, ect, ect... I don't suggest you try to instruct her as you bottom to her, but instead point her in the direction as to where to get good information and let her seek it out.

Drudging on in bedroom D/s with many misconceptions regarding the lifestyle or play aspects of this is always an option, but I'd never recommend it since you'd be essentially trying to re-invent the wheel and that's often not all that productive. Also, people can actually get physically hurt in the process due to lack of safety-related knowledge. Its almost always better to learn first, then do...




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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 2:28:25 PM   
AAkasha


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She might be dealing with some stereotypes of what a domina is  - it might be related to the leather-clad dominatrix stereotype, the whip yielding woman "bitch" who barks commands and calls her man a "worthless worm."

Introduce her to some more balanced portrayals of dominant women. Rent "Bull Durham" and see the playful, light nature that Susan Sarandon's character has, which is a nice little mini-intro to dominance.

Instead of the idea of being mean, ask her to consider being things like "unpredictable" or "sweetly selfish" or "mischevious."

Akasha




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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 3:25:35 PM   
E2Sweet


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
...She might be dealing with some stereotypes of what a domina is  - it might be related to the leather-clad dominatrix stereotype, the whip yielding woman "bitch" who barks commands and calls her man a "worthless worm."...



Precisely...


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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 5:05:54 PM   
DarkSteven


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So she's open to Dominating you but has reservations or limits about it.  Fine and good.

I'd go to a site like the Stockroom with her.  Look at the different toys and ask her about how she feels about them.  Or tell her how you feel about them.  Or both.

An adult novelty store would probably be better and feel less threatening to her.

Be patient and let her get used to the idea.

Good luck and enjoy!

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 5:13:07 PM   
ChicagoAmy


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I am going through the same thing sort of now. So far I've found that lots of talk about it via emails (sometimes direct face to face conversations about certain things are hard) and in person have helped tremendously. After years of being with either dom men or completely vanilla men, I got used to having sex a certain way. I'm having a blast with it so far, and I'm taking things really slow, oh and here is another simplistic tip, alcohol, a few drinks really help me lose some of those inhibitions that I have about dominating. 

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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 5:19:03 PM   
NumberSix


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tttdawg

I've become to introduce my girlfriend to BDSM and an thought I'd ask you guys for some help. While she is open to try new things she sometimes uses the excuse that "I can't be mean." (I'm naturally submissive btw).

Now as I sat there I was thinking of what to say but drew a blank. Is someone who is very kind and nice in all aspects of life psychologically unable to be quote mean or dominant in the bedroom?


Look, as most Dominatrixes will tell you, it ain't about mean at all. It is the dream, the fairytale, the idea, the fucking with your choice and self.

Really, and I don't care what the rhetoric is; I have not met one self-possessed woman on this site that actually craves being mean to you, or wants you to be imbedded in a mental institution for the rest of your life based on a couple minutes with her, or whatever...........they just want you to FEEL it...which you do.

Look, tell your girl that she can be in charge, try out what is in her head if the world was her oyster and you know she is exploring her conciousness as you are, and you are gonna take the trip together, and if she gets outta hand and prepares to  shove a red hot stove poker up your ass (which will never enter her mind until you bring it up, BTW) you can just say Red, yellow, green--- and she can trust you, to take the responsibility to say hold the phone Mistress, without damage to you, and especially damage TO HER!!!!!

You just gotta bite the bullet and grab a couple glasses of wine and talk about it without putting HER under pressure to perform?

Can you get it?

It is NOT about you, it is about her, in all, and all together.

That's what gets you off.

Ron (an honorary dominatrix)          

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 5:22:43 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ChicagoAmy

here is another simplistic tip, alcohol, a few drinks really help me lose some of those inhibitions that I have about dominating. 


I disagree.  Experienced Dom/mes have been known to lose their "game" when drunk.  A drunk with no experience, holding an implement of pain... a very likely outcome is that she will be remorseful of what she did when she sobers up and will swear off BDSM altogether.  And it's not hard to imagine a far worse result.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 5:27:35 PM   
NumberSix


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Consider the source, you and I are men, our idea of a couple drinks is probably quite different than the average self-possessed woman's.

Nobody has said drink a case and fuck and try out a whip once here, lets not cry wolf, yet.

Of course, as you point out, prudence is a watch word.  But the Domina is not experienced as was pointed out clearly by the OP.



_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 5:30:14 PM   
ChicagoAmy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChicagoAmy

here is another simplistic tip, alcohol, a few drinks really help me lose some of those inhibitions that I have about dominating. 


I disagree.  Experienced Dom/mes have been known to lose their "game" when drunk.  A drunk with no experience, holding an implement of pain... a very likely outcome is that she will be remorseful of what she did when she sobers up and will swear off BDSM altogether.  And it's not hard to imagine a far worse result.


I'm not sure about losing their game? What do you mean exactly? And I guess being completely drunk wouldn't be sexy no matter what. I meant a drink or two. I should have clarified.

< Message edited by ChicagoAmy -- 8/29/2008 5:31:50 PM >

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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 5:33:22 PM   
Leatherist


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Being under the influence is generally frowned in in bdsm play-by most.

Something about "not risking breaking the toy"-or other such silliness.

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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 5:38:47 PM   
AAkasha


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Here's a relevant article I wrote awhile back called "Being the Bitch":



If you ask any woman on the street what words they would associate with a dominatrix, you can be sure that in addition to leather, whips & chains, and pain they would use words like "cruel," "sadistic," "bitchy," or "mean."

The image that most women have in their head of a "femdom" comes almost entirely from the stereotype of the traditional dominatrix - the leather clad woman who stands tall and beats the guy who is crawling around on the floor. She is mean, commanding, authoritative, stern and bitchy.

Of course, most women can't relate to behaving that way - not even in a fun, light hearted roleplaying way. It's not appealing, and it's not natural. So, when they think about taking a stab at this concept of "female domination," they are left trying to reconcile how they can become "the bitch" that they need to be. How can they be believable as cruel, commanding, evil and ruthless?

This is another area where the stereotype of the "dominatrix" creates huge roadblocks for the man interested in submission. What men (and women) need to realize is that the "demeanor" of the female dominant is NOT trapped within that stereotypical image created by the dominatrix. In fact, I'd argue that in most cases, authentic, sensual female dominance looks nothing like that cartoon caricature of "the dominatrix."

You do NOT have to be a bitch!

I think most men are attracted to different types of dominance, far more than they are to the stereotypical "cruel bitch" that is common in literature and porn. I'd like to offer a few alternatives to the "cruel bitch" that I think are just as effective - and much more natural and fun - for women to embrace.

Here are a few "styles" of dominance that I've used:

1. The playful, unpredictable domina
She smiles a lot. She's mischievous. She clearly is enjoying what she is doing, and she's treating her partner like he's a bit of a plaything. She likes to use the element of surprise a lot - blindfolds, guessing games. Because she almost seems innocent and merely amused by it all, the moments when she gets slightly serious or does something unpredictably scary, she can become incredibly intimidating. Key to this demeanor is to not be too "over the top" with silliness; she's not silly, she's merely amused. Her smiles are subtle and leave a lot to the imagination.

2. The aloof, mysterious domina
She may not say as much, but her expressions give it all away. She may offer a slight smile now and then, a bit of a smirk, but she does not give away much information about what she is thinking, and it makes her partner feel more vulnerable and helpless. She adopts a sort of cool, confident sensual aura about her and does things slow and deliberate. She enjoys moments of pause, just to stare at him and make him uneasy. She is the type to slowly pull a riding crop out and slide her hand through it while staring at his eyes. She makes it a point to be hard to read - he can never know what she is thinking. When she speaks, it is usually a simple command - she doesn't even need to raise her voice though, he's listening with rapt attention.

3. The sensual siren
This domina uses her sexuality and her sexual self confidence to unnerve her partner. She is a constant tease, doing things like revealing a little thigh and taunting him for looking, or straddling his lap and brushing her lips across his. She knows that he wants her very badly, and she likes to toy with that. She makes him express to her how badly he wants her - she constantly keeps him on the edge.

Of course, none of these are 100% -- some women use all sorts of mixes of them. But when you read these examples, you'll see that none of these demeanors use things like raising the voice, using profanity, being unnecessarily cruel, or being extremely stern.

When I've surveyed men about the "style" of dominance they find most appealing, the majority of them consider the stereotypical "cruel bitch" femdom to be at the bottom of the list - or, merely reserved for fantasy. In reality, they find women who are enjoying their dominance to be more engaging - those that are playful, sensual, unpredictable.

These kinds of demeanors come much more naturally to women, and don't seem so intimidating. Little sparks of "unpredictable cruelty," when appropriate and natural, can be extremely powerful. However, women shouldn't think that dominance means they have to behave like a stern, ridiculously cruel caricature of control.

I ask women to consider how their partners developed an interest in female domination. In many cases, it was sparked initially by some images of women in control from their childhood. Common answers have to do with the first time they saw Eartha Kitt as Catwoman taunting Batman and Robin, or of Emma Peel in The Avengers. If you'll recall, Catwoman wasn't simply a leather-clad bitch who beat the heroes to a pulp; she was sly, confident, sexy and flirtatious. That image of sensual control seared the brains of some men when they were pliable, curious pre-teens, and that image stuck.

The single component that makes any domination real and fulfilling for the male submissive is the woman being confident, and enjoying it. Most women tossed into this situation by a male partner are neither confident about it or enjoying it, and that's why it is destined to fail out of the gate.

However, if women realize they aren't being asked to play "dress up and be a dominatrix," or to adopt some fake, cheesy, "megabitch" demeanor, they may find it less intimidating and more erotic. I suggest they look at other demeanors that are equally dominant - from simply being playful to behaving cautiously and mysteriously. It's much more natural - and fun.


Akasha



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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 5:52:20 PM   
tttdawg


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Great answers from everyone. I will definitely use all the information from each post.

As to the question if she is naturally dominant I'd say thats a definite no.

However, she is very open-minded even to the point of passive. We're slowly getting into the thick of things which is good.

Today I got tied up with some duck tape and slapped around a bit. =)

I think she's intimidated by the verbal aspect of it. Verbally she doesn't want to sound "mean."

-Chris

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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 7:20:47 PM   
NumberSix


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I think humans are resiliant human beings...maybe in isolation.

I cannot imagine that women, as beings unique to their own sort, could not........at least peripherally..

after they fly around late and harried as usual, pasting on a face, an eyeshadow, fighting the conundrum of what to wear, could not; in the morning, in the glorious light of a new day, which you will be there to insure they see; take one moment out of their life, to slip on todays matching shoes as they gird their armor against the world (from your back) and hand you a fresh and hardly sipped tea cup and saucer to deal with, as they strike out to face the world, it ain't a calgon moment..............but there may be a serenity in it.....................but then, it don't try to be.

_____________________________

"Who are you?"
"The new Number Two."
"Who is Number One?"
"You are Number Six.".
"I am not a number — I am a free man!"

Be seeing you...

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RE: Interesting question. - 8/29/2008 7:39:17 PM   
Jeffff


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Donna Reed could handle it..........Carol Brady?, not so much

ArronSpellingDom

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RE: Interesting question. - 8/30/2008 12:48:10 AM   
DesFIP


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Just because you get off being hurt and called names doesn't mean she gets off on it also. So far, all I've seen is why you want her to do this for you.

What does she get out of it? Are you doing the dishes and the laundry? Picking up around the place while she rests on the sofa? Rubbing her feet with no expectation, spoken or unspoken, of getting sex or play afterwards?

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