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Being Bratty - 8/30/2008 7:34:41 AM   
LittleWench


Posts: 265
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline 		Hopefully this isn't the same old bratty question.  I am interested in hearing from other subs who consider themselves to be bratty.  My Owner and I have just spent our first 2 weeks in a full time D/s relationship and I noticed some things about my behaviour.

I can be a "good sub" in the traditional sense of the word.  I have some basic rules.  I am to tend to his needs before my own (eg get him a drink before getting myself one), I am to sit on the floor until he beckons me up onto the couch, some examples of the pretty basic protocols I have been told to adhere to.  None of this makes me feel submissive, for lack of a better way to describe it, none of it makes me feel in my place.  For the most part I see a lot of it as basic relationship courtesy, being submissive and pleasing by nature it's the type of stuff I have always done in vanilla relationships.

So I found myself being bratty in order to be put back into my place.  Not punished, per se, but reminded.  He used the crop and flogger regularly for the sake of pleasure, it was not necessary to use it for punishment.  I didn't play up for attention, ie as a means of getting a flogging or punishment.

This post doesn't really apply to subs who get satisfaction from giving flawless service, take pride in always being pleasing, in fact subs of that mindset probably frown upon my actions.  But for subs who are bratty, why do you let your brat out?  What satisfaction do you get from it, for what reason(s) do you behave that way?  How does your Dominant deal with you when you are like that? (I had mine in fits of laughter one day, he was laughing so hard he couldn't reprimand me for quite some time).

When I find the routine protocols to be rather vanilla, is there another way to get the dynamic reinforced (outside of scening)?
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RE: Being Bratty - 8/30/2008 8:28:10 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Give it time.  It's VERY normal for subs to feel insecure and need a little more "push" in the beginning of their journey and relationships.  Even though mentally they know it's there, they don't have the experience to really trust it to be there, so they force the issue in order to find security.  Over time you won't need that reminder and will find that intimacy that comes in being boring together :)

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(in reply to LittleWench)
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RE: Being Bratty - 8/30/2008 8:34:09 AM   
subeos


Posts: 140
Joined: 5/23/2008
Status: offline 		Most not all subs find themselves testing their Dom. i would just suggest that it not go on for to long. He may get tired of it.

slave eos

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
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RE: Being Bratty - 8/30/2008 9:09:25 AM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleWench

When I find the routine protocols to be rather vanilla, is there another way to get the dynamic reinforced (outside of scening)?



Is there some reason you and your Dominant cannot discuss this? Why the passive /agressive behavior at 35? 

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RE: Being Bratty - 8/30/2008 1:07:18 PM   
aravain


Posts: 1211
Joined: 8/26/2008
Status: offline 		Ahhh! Wonderful! A fellow bratty submissive :)

I find that being bratty comes from a normal personality trait... I'm very much so an in-control type of person, and I will not, EVER, completely give up control to another person. When I'm being 'bratty' it's because I'm trying to wrest control back from my dominant in some form or fashion to show him that I am, quite simply my own person.

It's his 'job' to prove otherwise, to punish me when I act up and to 'put me in my place' to paraphrase what you said.

As I've found (though, of course, you're only the second person who isn't me that I've found who identifies as a 'bratty sub') it's in being told and reminded, near constantly, that the submissive isn't in charge, that everything is about the dominant, that the bratty submissives find a peculiar thrill of pleasure.

And there's also a thrill in disobeying someone who you view as an authority figure.

However, it IS hard to find a dominant who will put up with it, which is unfortunate. Whether I'm in a Vanilla relationship, or one that incorporates BDSM, I will *always* want a partner that challenges me. I think, in essence, that's what a bratty submissive does... constantly challenges their dominant. Likewise, the dominant, in any relationship, constantly challenges their submissive. In this case, both partners challenge each other in an otherwise one-way relationship, in my opinion.

(in reply to dawntreader)
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RE: Being Bratty - 8/30/2008 6:16:29 PM   
Zechriel


Posts: 308
Joined: 11/19/2007
Status: offline 		Good evening!
Well, I am a brat, I guess that is why I cannot have a regular Dom, I have to have Daddy. And he has such patience! He likes a little brat most of the time. Cause it gives him a chance to "shush" me or correct me. He says, that's what Daddies do. Most of those times though, it is because something is bothering me or something that I want or don't want...that I have trouble expressing out loud. My mind goes a billion ways at the speed of light and all I can do is pout and bounce at that moment. Now, when that happens, Daddy knows that I need to express it and usually slows me down and guides me thru the communication thing.  It was not that I was being willfully bratty but mind and heart were confused and in opposite directions right at that moment.
Aravain said theh last part so well. We challenge each other to rise above, to keep reaching for better, for more. Daddy always says this is a journey we are both on together. If people call that bratty, so be it. As far as dealing with it..we use those clues like bouncing or pouting. I also have a habit of wringing my hands when I am in full blown conflict. then it is to the sofa for talks and rubbing my back, or the bed for talks and cuddles. There is never any punishment for being a bit bratty, only for breaking the rules, like bedtime..boy, that hurt!!!::rubs bottom:: Hope that helps! Good luck!
Love,
Zechriel 

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(in reply to aravain)
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RE: Being Bratty - 8/30/2008 7:27:25 PM   
natasha66


Posts: 321
Joined: 10/14/2006
From: NJ
Status: offline 		Bratty, smartass, opinionated, whatever you want to call it....it's who i am and it's not likely to change.  Fortunately i have found someone who accepts His minx the way she is......lucky girl that i am . 

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Collared June 4th, 2008
Love is giving him the power to destroy you, but trusting him not to.



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RE: Being Bratty - 8/31/2008 2:07:30 AM   
LittleWench


Posts: 265
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Give it time.  It's VERY normal for subs to feel insecure and need a little more "push" in the beginning of their journey and relationships.  Even though mentally they know it's there, they don't have the experience to really trust it to be there, so they force the issue in order to find security.  Over time you won't need that reminder and will find that intimacy that comes in being boring together :)


One of the things I enjoyed the most this past two weeks was simply sitting on the floor at his feet while we watched TV.  I don't consider myself to be overly service-minded in my submissiveness, but simple things like asking him first if he would like something, or passing his glass first, were nice.... but again these are things I am very used to doing in non D/s relationships.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader
Is there some reason you and your Dominant cannot discuss this? Why the passive /agressive behavior at 35? 


I have spoken directly to him about it, and we have agreed that unless he directs me to be otherwise, I am free to be as bratty/feisty/opinionated as I like, and he will deal with it according to his mood.  I'm not seeing how that is passive/aggressive?

quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain
However, it IS hard to find a dominant who will put up with it, which is unfortunate. Whether I'm in a Vanilla relationship, or one that incorporates BDSM, I will *always* want a partner that challenges me. I think, in essence, that's what a bratty submissive does... constantly challenges their dominant. Likewise, the dominant, in any relationship, constantly challenges their submissive. In this case, both partners challenge each other in an otherwise one-way relationship, in my opinion.


It is a challenge for the Dom, one I am sure most Dom's wouldn't want on a daily basis.  I could imagine that many Dom's would find it draining, even exhausting, to constantly have to interact with a sub in this way, rather than having a compliant, obedient, pleasing sub.... but why assume that all Dom's wish for that kind of submissive? 

So nice to know I am not alone!  I read so many threads from subs who are terrified of displeasing their Dom's, and so many threads from Dom's who don't tolerate any kind of attitude... nice to know in the broad spectrum that is BDSM there is a place for me too :)



(in reply to dawntreader)
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RE: Being Bratty - 8/31/2008 5:42:22 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		In your case I would suggest explaining how you feel. You might find a maintenance spanking to help headspace.

Bratty is something I only do when I'm feeling really good and really confident. That's the only time I feel safe teasing him. The better behaved, quieter I am, the worse I'm feeling. Someone who wanted me subservient all the time would have to keep me feeling unhappy and insecure all the time. Thankfully he understands my motivation and wants me happy and secure.

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RE: Being Bratty - 8/31/2008 5:59:05 AM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleWench

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader
Is there some reason you and your Dominant cannot discuss this? Why the passive /agressive behavior at 35? 


I have spoken directly to him about it, and we have agreed that unless he directs me to be otherwise, I am free to be as bratty/feisty/opinionated as I like, and he will deal with it according to his mood.  I'm not seeing how that is passive/aggressive?



Acting out can be a form of passive agressive behavior. In your original post, you gave no indication that you and your Doninant talk about this.
 
There are so many opions and definitions of "bratty" that it almost competes with "sub/slave" definitions, however according to Webster :  brat: an ill-mannered annoying child <a spoiled brat> b: an ill-mannered immature person.
 
 i fail to see the appeal in this at all for a dominant nor pride from a submissive in being one~

.

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to LittleWench)
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RE: Being Bratty - 8/31/2008 6:14:28 AM   
stella41b


Posts: 4258
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aravain

And there's also a thrill in disobeying someone who you view as an authority figure.



Yes I get a buzz out of taking on, challenging an authority but usually when it's the government, a bank or local authority.

And yes I admit to having experienced the thrill in disobeying someone who I view as an authority figure. But I was 13 years old at the time.

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RE: Being Bratty - 8/31/2008 6:37:18 AM   
LoveMyAussiePet


Posts: 9
Joined: 12/7/2007
Status: offline 		I happen to like the brat and while I do not "encourage" it, per se, I also do not hinder it.  Part of the challenge and excitement of the relationship is dealing with the brat. To my mindset just because one chooses to be a dominant does not necessarily impart the desire to have someone who ALWAYS listens and acts like a mindless zombie to the desires and commands of a master.

If that is how some Subs/Slaves choose to be that is all well and good for them.  To each their own.

I prefer the brat.  I like that my pet is willful and strong.  I enjoy that spark, that little extra something which makes me feel that I am with someone who has a flair of their own.  I would even go as far as to say that when Pet is bratty that I feel as if she deserves being my submissive.  I feel as if it is my role to correct her and need to be a little extra dominant - which can be quite invigourating and bring out something extra in me.  Sometimes it makes me laugh and I get a thrill out of seeing that spark in my partner.  Other times it annoys me, in which case both of us get a great deal out of "correcting" the behavior.  In any event, I find the dynamic to be much more enjoyable and "fresh" than having every command mindlessly obeyed. 

< Message edited by LoveMyAussiePet -- 8/31/2008 6:39:17 AM >

(in reply to dawntreader)
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RE: Being Bratty - 8/31/2008 6:48:23 AM   
LittleWench


Posts: 265
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

 i fail to see the appeal in this at all for a dominant nor pride from a submissive in being one~



My Webster's doesn't list any of those definitions, in fact the original definition of brat was any child, and it only later became a word with negative connotations to mean a troublesome, annoying, spoiled or impolite child.

Am I impolite or ill-mannered because I speak my mind freely, even if my opinion has not been asked for?  Is it annoying to say "no" with a cheeky smile before running off to do as you are told?  One bratty thing he told me I did was to argue with him over who should do the dishes when he told me he would do the chore.  NO, I said.  YES, he said.  (It's my job to do the dishes not his), we argued over this until he sent me to my room.  I am a bad, bratty girl!  Imagine not wanting my Dom to do the dishes!  I am spoiled, he reminds me that I am spoiled, but in material terms I ask for very little, most everything that I am spoiled with is given at his suggestion, or offered freely by him, not demanded by myself.  I guess it's totally immature of me to rub against his leg purring, trying to make him smile, or racing ahead of him to force him to "chase" me, or sitting on top of him in bed and tickling him till he giggles.  Oh and then there was the time on the beach where I refused to get off the blanket forcing him to act as my workhorse, pulling along the makeshift blanket sleigh!  I meet all the definitions of brat, oh dear! ;)

We all see what we want to see in situations.  Obviously my Owner finds aspects of my inner brat enjoyable.  The purpose of this thread was not to offer my submission to the judgment of those who do not approve, but rather to chat with those who identified with similar behaviors.

(in reply to dawntreader)
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RE: Being Bratty - 8/31/2008 8:21:11 AM   
apiercedkitty


Posts: 569
Joined: 2/22/2007
From: Michigan
Status: offline 		~FR~
 
Some would see me as bratty at times... others call it feisty, or smart-assed... lol
i'm only that way when in a particularly hyper frame of mind... could be i've had some fabulously good news or maybe i haven't had a good "playdate" in too long. Whatever the reason, i'm sometimes put in my place if He's not in the mood to deal with it... i try to be very observant of His mood in the first place tho so i try to not to be "bratty" if i know He's not going to tolerate it...

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RE: Being Bratty - 8/31/2008 8:53:04 AM   
dawntreader


Posts: 3045
Joined: 11/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleWench

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader

 i fail to see the appeal in this at all for a dominant nor pride from a submissive in being one~



My Webster's doesn't list any of those definitions, in fact the original definition of brat was any child, and it only later became a word with negative connotations to mean a troublesome, annoying, spoiled or impolite child.


Online webster link  >    brat

quote:

The purpose of this thread was not to offer my submission to the judgment of those who do not approve, but rather to chat with those who identified with similar behaviors.


So noted on this very public forum~  If one is playfully misbehaving in a supporting dynamic  - that appears to be totally different than a person acting out like a child because their submissive needs are not being met. Personally i see a huge difference and your original post was a tad different than this last one.
 
If you enjoy "playing the misbehaving child", fine - that is your kink. However, your original post sounded like someone acting childishly in order to fullfill needs instead of communicating~

_____________________________

It is choice - not chance - that determines our destiny~
Jean Nidetch

There is a war going on for your mind...if you are thinking, you are winning~
Flobots

(in reply to LittleWench)
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RE: Being Bratty - 8/31/2008 11:00:15 AM   
aravain


Posts: 1211
Joined: 8/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleWench
It is a challenge for the Dom, one I am sure most Dom's wouldn't want on a daily basis.  I could imagine that many Dom's would find it draining, even exhausting, to constantly have to interact with a sub in this way, rather than having a compliant, obedient, pleasing sub.... but why assume that all Dom's wish for that kind of submissive? 


Oh, nono! I wasn't trying to say that all Doms want complete subservience! Quite the opposite! Just on this site I've noticed some Doms who are only looking for Subs, or Slaves, to 'train' to become subservient... they, obviously, are looking for something of a short-term bratty Sub... and probably get their jollies by 'breaking' them in to a 'good' Sub.

I've just never found a Dom who'd be willing or interested in putting up with the behavior :) That's what I was meant. It's a different dynamic than most Doms are used to.

(in reply to LittleWench)
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RE: Being Bratty - 8/31/2008 3:37:04 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I've just never found a Dom who'd be willing or interested in putting up with the behavior :) That's what I was meant. It's a different dynamic than most Doms are used to.


...or will waste time tolerating.

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Being Bratty - 8/31/2008 4:25:39 PM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline 		Sometimes my Master calls me a brat. But he laughs when he says it. But really I am mostly a good sub. But to enjoy me you do need to enjoy someone feisty and exciting and engaging , a challenge, outspoken and intelligent. Also sarcasm. Its not really brattiness. Its the sarcasm and I am dam funny! For instance i was told to count of floggings. i said"One, Fuck" and got in trouble and was told to start over. so I said"One, toe-jam", well he laughed but I got hit harder and had to start over til I said, "thank you sir." But master does not want a weak willed sub. he says "anyone can dominate a weak willed person but where is the satisfaction in that?"

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RE: Being Bratty - 8/31/2008 4:37:45 PM   
LittleWench


Posts: 265
Joined: 11/27/2007
Status: offline 		Hi Aravain :)  This part "but why assume that all Dom's wish for that kind of submissive?" was in response to the replies that I knew I would get saying how intolerable we are, and how could any Dom want to tolerate that kind of submissive, and how could any submissive hold their head high knowing they displayed that kind of behaviour.

quote:

ORIGINAL: dawntreader
If you enjoy "playing the misbehaving child", fine - that is your kink. However, your original post sounded like someone acting childishly in order to fullfill needs instead of communicating~


I am obviously failing to communicate the situation well enough.  I am not "playing the misbehaving child", it's not an act, it's my personality.  At times when I feel he is not in the mood I usually stymie that and am more placid, however I found at times those quiet moments were not enough to re-inforce my submissiveness, so I would stop censoring my behaviour.  I am by nature inquisitive, playful, argumentative and I am very used to getting my own way in life, and this dynamic although very much wanted by myself, is new.  I understand that even though my Owner loves me unconditionally, there will be times when he just won't be in the mood to deal with me when I am like that... so I was asking other subs who felt the same way how they dealt with getting their needs met.

(in reply to aravain)
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RE: Being Bratty - 8/31/2008 4:53:41 PM   
Kalista07


Posts: 4240
Joined: 7/1/2007
Status: offline 		i'm really not trying to come off as arrogant or better than. i guess i just don't get it. Sure, i suppose at times from an outsider's  perspective they could say i was 'behaving brattily'. But the reality is i just don't really enjoy it. Perhpas i am just ruled too much by guilt.
Kali


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(in reply to LittleWench)
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