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Need to learn to train - 8/30/2008 7:50:31 AM   
HarleyMan2008


Posts: 15
Joined: 8/30/2008
Status: offline 		I am looking for a starting point in this lifestyle. As I posted in the introduction section. My wife has recently advised me that she has been looking into this and is very curious. However there are some concerns and hang ups that we need to get past.
We have been together since we were in high school so over 14 years. She has not always been open with me about her desires. Over the last year she has joined second life and realized there is alot more out there and wants to maybe try it out. She met a male on there that is a master and she has done a few things for him. While I do not mind in a way, on the other hand I want that person to be me not him. She states that I am the one who will benefit from the things she has heard about?
However in our conversations she admits that she doesnt think she can be submissive to me and would be more likely to submit to a stranger. She states that "It just wont work out" but then retracts and says she wants to try it but not to push it.
So thats a small start to what has been said and I am really interested in doing this as it works for me. I love control and have never really attempted it.
What or where should I start with her and how can I begin to train her to be a sub/slave? I appreciate your help.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Need to learn to train - 8/30/2008 7:58:25 AM   
opposingtwilight


Posts: 684
Joined: 6/13/2008
Status: offline 		Oh boy, this is complicated.

Its good that you're finally communicating about these things. Or at least attempting to do so.

I can see what she's saying about how it might be "easier" to submit to a stranger but I also think that she's copping out to some degree. The biggest reason it is easier to submit to someone you've just met as opposed to your husband of 14 years is because she's had 14 years of NOT submitting to you. Its going to be weird to alter the roles you two play in this relationship. Not impossible, just a little weird and perhaps a bit uncomfortable at first. So, I'm sorry but in my opinion, its a cop out if she keeps trying to submit to strangers after she's already told you that YOU would benefit from what she's learned.

I wouldn't suggest telling her that in so many words, however. Might get things started on the wrong foot entirely.

Read as much as you can, learn as much as you can. Sit down with her and fill out a premptive checklist. That way you'll know what she's interested in. She'll know what you're interested in and you will both learn about what else is out there for you two to get interested in. Then try it out. Its just like anything else in life; you won't know if you can do it or if you enjoy it until you try.

Don't start with "training" immediately. Start small ... A scene or two. Then maybe a weekend. Or a long weekend and gradually work into it. Also, what are your goals with training? I know you said "train her to be a sub/slave" but thats pretty vague. Try and figure out some goals and you might get more helpful answers.


_____________________________


(in reply to HarleyMan2008)
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RE: Need to learn to train - 8/30/2008 8:02:52 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline 		Sooner or later you'll want to look at bondage so I suggest rope bondage. You can make a good start learning knots and other interesting things by either buying the book or watch the Knotty Boys on you tube. From a safety aspect you need to constantly check the victim's circulation and that he or she isn't cramping. Don't worry about cutting the ropes with good sheers as ir is les expensive to replace rope tnen a wife or partner and much less paper work and explaining to do. Other than that, local munches are a good start so you can meet people and get known. It shouldn't take long before you find a person or people who can teach you various techniques like spanking etc.. Going to play parties both private and public is a great way to get a visual on a whole range of fun things. Start slow and easy and you should be ok.

IB
(The incorrigible, irrepressible and irreverent Bear)

(in reply to HarleyMan2008)
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RE: Need to learn to train - 8/30/2008 8:08:33 AM   
HarleyMan2008


Posts: 15
Joined: 8/30/2008
Status: offline 		Great. Where do I find a check list? I am not sure what she has been thinking. It is complicated. We have two children and an in home business and therefore can not do this all the time or when I want per se. However, as for the sub/slave. I want her to get satisfied by making me happy. I want to use discipline on her and from there I am not sure where to go. I have done much reading here and there are various different things to do.
She is curious about bondage as am I. I want her to do things on command and my number one goal is to have her cum on command. Our relationship thus far has been equal but communication deficient. I am looking for a starting point and small steps to the mountain on satisfaction for both of us.
I am thinking of going to the toy store today and buying something for her to do or wear to start but not sure what. Any recommendations?
The stranger/ guy on line got her to post naked picutres of herself that she took behind my back and posted them on a site. I found them and she unfolded on the details but admits that she wasnt planning on telling me.

(in reply to opposingtwilight)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: Need to learn to train - 8/30/2008 8:25:59 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		I agree- the question is, can she give you the time and energy and focus needed to learn to train herself into seeing you in a new way and new dynamic, and do you have the motivation and internal drive to become her dominant over time?  Can she be content with submission being boring at times?  My guess is right now she's in fantasy frenzy ville and she won't enjoy boring submission like you telling her to go take out the trash.  That will take time to get past and she needs to be mature enough to get there without saying "You're not dom enough" and you need to be consistent enough not to just be lazy and "forget" to reinforce the dynamic in an ongoing basis.

I'd say take her to a Petsmart training class and tell her to take notes on what sort of bitch she'd like to be trained as.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to HarleyMan2008)
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RE: Need to learn to train - 8/30/2008 8:32:00 AM   
HarleyMan2008


Posts: 15
Joined: 8/30/2008
Status: offline 		Exaclty. She doesnt take orders like that well now. Where or how do we find these classes or munches in Iowa? I have never even heard of such things until I found this site.
She has mentioned going to be trained to be a sub.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Need to learn to train - 8/30/2008 8:54:10 AM   
restlessdreamer


Posts: 60
Joined: 3/19/2007
Status: offline 		I have a close friend who has introduced Ds to her vanilla hubby. She's very submissive and wildly in love with him and I have had the joy of sitting on the sidelines and watch this crafty girl reach her goal. Lol.

First thing she did was talk. And talk lots. He had no idea of what to do, how to act, or what to think. While he was naturaly dominant to a point in the bedroom, he had a hard time adjusting his mindset of the way he was raised to the way she wanted him to treat her. (Guys don't hit girls in any circumstance).

The second thing they did, was drop all labels and 'should be's' and without pressure, just did what felt right within a certain theme. Everytime he showed dominance, she merely encouraged it and didn't push. Gave him time to be comfortable in this new role. And that isn't to say that each and every scene was perfection. But neither one gave up.

He has since been learning much by reading and has taken the initiative now, to start ideas on his own. I am happy to say that just the other day, he surprised her with a scene that lasted a few hours. She was in heaven and positively glowed when she shared it all with me!

This is a happy ending story (I'm -so- envious of her.Lol) but I wanted to share it because I think it's kinda close to the OP's situation. Communication is key, of course. My friends have a phenomenal level of communication even before all of this. Their foundation was solid first. So I hope that maybe you can take some examples from this and put it to good use.

I think there's a good chance you could surprise your wife and shatter her doubts. I wish you the best!


(in reply to HarleyMan2008)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Need to learn to train - 8/30/2008 11:58:33 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HarleyMan2008
I am looking for a starting point in this lifestyle. As I posted in the introduction section. My wife has recently advised me that she has been looking into this and is very curious. However there are some concerns and hang ups that we need to get past.
We have been together since we were in high school so over 14 years. She has not always been open with me about her desires. Over the last year she has joined second life and realized there is alot more out there and wants to maybe try it out. She met a male on there that is a master and she has done a few things for him. While I do not mind in a way, on the other hand I want that person to be me not him. She states that I am the one who will benefit from the things she has heard about?
However in our conversations she admits that she doesnt think she can be submissive to me and would be more likely to submit to a stranger. She states that "It just wont work out" but then retracts and says she wants to try it but not to push it.
So thats a small start to what has been said and I am really interested in doing this as it works for me. I love control and have never really attempted it.
What or where should I start with her and how can I begin to train her to be a sub/slave? I appreciate your help.


How fascinating.  That is pretty much EXACTLY the same problem I faced... including the wife starting in SecondLife.  The only issue that you're facing that I did not is that my wife has always seen me as a dominant personality so she had nothing but good thoughs about submitting to me in particular.  The topic, however, is really too complex to carry out well in a discussion forum in my opinion.  If you'd like, drop me a line on the other side and we can exchange emails.

~Jeff

(in reply to HarleyMan2008)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Need to learn to train - 8/30/2008 3:08:35 PM   
HarleyMan2008


Posts: 15
Joined: 8/30/2008
Status: offline 		Thanks for the info thus far everyone. I am trying to take it all in but I feel lost with where I should start.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Need to learn to train - 8/30/2008 4:34:25 PM   
Focus50


Posts: 3962
Joined: 12/28/2004
From: Newcastle, Australia
Status: offline 		"Training" is about teaching your submissive what it is you desire of her that pleases you.  It's also correcting anything she does that you disapprove of....  If you don't know what those things are nor have the will to formulate and enforce rules and standards of behaviour for her etc, then she's right - you're not the one she can do this with.
 
You "love control and have never really attempted it"??  Sounds like you're in denial because, if she's inherently submissive, you'd have had ample opportunity to explore what you "love" with her!
quote:

ORIGINAL: HarleyMan2008

She met a male on there that is a master and she has done a few things for him. While I do not mind in a way, on the other hand I want that person to be me not him. She states that I am the one who will benefit from the things she has heard about?

I understand that you're not happy with her seeing someone else but, YIKES, she's doing it for *your* benefit???  That's mega alarm bells to me and you really need to be talking to her - AND listening; because she's in denial, too....
 
Focus.

_____________________________

Never underestimate the persuasive power of stupid people in large groups. <unknown>

Your food is for eating, not torturing. <my mum> (Errm, when I was a kid)

(in reply to HarleyMan2008)
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RE: Need to learn to train - 8/30/2008 7:24:38 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HarleyMan2008

Thanks for the info thus far everyone. I am trying to take it all in but I feel lost with where I should start.


Hello HarleyMan2008. You should start with yourself.

First ask yourself an honest question: Do you like your wife to be fucking around with other men? Even if it is in cyberworld? If not, respond to this by ''telling'' your wife to stop it. Do not ''ask'' if she wants to do the same with you, ''tell'' her you do not consent to her submitting to cyber strangers.

Second, ask yourself if this is really a ''training'' issue, even a lifestyle issue for that matter. RL.

(in reply to HarleyMan2008)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Need to learn to train - 8/30/2008 7:49:20 PM   
HarleyMan2008


Posts: 15
Joined: 8/30/2008
Status: offline 		She has asked me if I want her to stop. At this point I have said no. So far everything she has done has been in cyber world. She has a desire to be with others but states that it would not happen.
If I were to tell her to stop and that I do not consent. Her response would be this " **** you its my life and you cant tell me what to do". So yeah she says she wants to explore this a little and see where it goes, however its better for her from a stranger to go along with it than me to demand or command something. We had a discussion about discipline over dinner and she said if I were to slap her she would go ballistic. But if another "stranger" was to and she was to be in that state she said it would put her in place. I'm lost!

(in reply to robertolapiedra)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Need to learn to train - 8/30/2008 8:31:23 PM   
mbes


Posts: 465
Joined: 12/14/2006
Status: offline 		Why is she asking if you want her to stop, if her response to a "yes" would be as you describe?

(in reply to HarleyMan2008)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: Need to learn to train - 8/30/2008 11:09:28 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HarleyMan2008

She has asked me if I want her to stop. At this point I have said no. So far everything she has done has been in cyber world. She has a desire to be with others but states that it would not happen.
If I were to tell her to stop and that I do not consent. Her response would be this " **** you its my life and you cant tell me what to do". So yeah she says she wants to explore this a little and see where it goes, however its better for her from a stranger to go along with it than me to demand or command something. We had a discussion about discipline over dinner and she said if I were to slap her she would go ballistic. But if another "stranger" was to and she was to be in that state she said it would put her in place. I'm lost!


Hello again. When one of two life partners goes into sexual exploration without the other, and tells the other " **** you its my life and you cant tell me what to do" it is not a very good sign that all is well in the basics of ''coupledom''.

Now, if you were included (even if your spouse maintained her fantasy fix of submissive adultery) it would be different. All I see your wife doing (from what you say) is mind fucking you into accepting her little adventure and whatever comes out of it. By saying no, when she asked you if you wanted her to stop, you did not know what you were saying no to. Do you or don't you want her to continue to explore without you? That is the question. The fact that she may tell you to go fuck yourself if you interfere in ''her private adventures'' does not deter from the fact that you have a say in this, just as she would have if the situation was reversed.

The key principles in all relationships is consent, tolerance, acceptance. You consented to this, you are tolerating this but I'm not sure you ''accept'' this with all the ''possible consequences''. I get the feeling you are getting along in the hope your wife will become ''your'' subbie? Do you really think she goes off in cyberworld to learn how to become ''your'' subbie?

Another possibility is that she does this as sexual entertainment to get her libido going. Some men go to porn sites for the same thing. Not every man would like see their wifes do some of the stuff they see on these sites. Not every woman doing cyber kink would like to do this with their husband.The point is that you simply do not know what really is going on. That is why it is important for you to know what you want and tell your wife.

As I hinted before, you may have an issue that is not related to ''training'' or the lifestyle in question. One thing is evident, the quality of communication in your couple may need to go up a notch or two. Just my opinion. RL.


(in reply to HarleyMan2008)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Need to learn to train - 8/31/2008 7:23:10 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Let's see what we know.

You and your wife are both busy as hell.  Behind your back, she met some guy on Second Life (which from what I hear is very time-intensive), and gave nude pics to him.  You found out, she confessed and told you that the reason is because she wants to submit but doesn't really want to submit to you.  Well, maybe.  Maybe not.  She's unsure...

In your situation, I would either spank her long and hard for cybercheating or get into couples therapy.  Maybe both.

I expect she's feeling neglected.  Note that you talk about how little time you have, while she's got enough to play Second Life.  Spend more time with her, and romance her some.  But also tell her that you need her Second Life password and access to her account so you can oversee it from time to time.

You don't come across as a Dom to me as much as someone who's got Topping fantasies.  And I'm not sure she's a sub as much as a wife who got caught in the act and let you know some of her fantasies.

Sorry if I got worked up.  I feel like her cybercheating is stealing time from you, from the business, and from the kids.  And I'm surprised at your detached nature about it.


_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Need to learn to train - 8/31/2008 8:17:02 AM   
KnightofMists


Posts: 7149
Joined: 7/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HarleyMan2008
If I were to tell her to stop and that I do not consent. Her response would be this " **** you its my life and you cant tell me what to do".

So yeah she says she wants to explore this a little and see where it goes, however its better for her from a stranger to go along with it than me to demand or command something. We had a discussion about discipline over dinner and she said if I were to slap her she would go ballistic. But if another "stranger" was to and she was to be in that state she said it would put her in place. I'm lost!


But.. do you want her to stop!!!?  If you do so.... Then say so!!!  If you want to Dominate her.. you can't start by making choices because that is what she want.... All you doing it Rubber stamping what she wants... and if you keep doing that.... She will NEVER submit to you.  Quit being a RUBBER STAMP for her frenzy.  Say what you want  Regardless of what it is she wants to do. 

Now... Don't assume you have to TELL her what to do... just Tell her want you want.   For example

Her: "Do you want me to stop going doing this?"

You "I can't tell you want to do... but Yes I want you to stop"

Her: "I am going to do what the fuck I want"

You: "and you will "suffer" the consequences of it"  END of conversation.

There is no point of discussing anything further if she is going to do what she wants with out regard to your thougths and feelings!  And you have to decide if you want to live this way or move on in another direction. 

_____________________________

Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to HarleyMan2008)
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RE: Need to learn to train - 8/31/2008 8:35:47 PM   
ladysekhmetka


Posts: 94
Joined: 12/31/2006
Status: offline 		From what I've read, it seems like you and your SO would benefit from counseling more so than anything else.  Just my honest and humble opinion ;P


_____________________________

Lady Sekhmet Ka

~ Hail, Sekhmet, Who Gives Joy, Lady of Jubilation!~

(in reply to KnightofMists)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Need to learn to train - 9/1/2008 12:59:32 PM   
Solipsistic


Posts: 50
Joined: 10/19/2007
Status: offline 		I see this as her challenging your authority.  She says she will do what she wants and that she wouldn't tolerate you dominating her; that's a challenge.  If you roll over and keep "rubber stamping" as Knight of Mists said, she is only going to get worse.  In effect, you are submitting to her, which is the opposite of what she claims to want.  Therapy is never a bad idea, but you also need to let your confident side come out; if she doesn't see it, how is she going to know it's there?

< Message edited by Solipsistic -- 9/1/2008 1:00:18 PM >

(in reply to ladysekhmetka)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Need to learn to train - 9/1/2008 1:55:33 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		I'm going to have to say I have some concerns over this whole "rubber stamping" theme.  The OP and his wife have been together for 14 years.  They clearly place a high price on compatibility and so it's not all that surprising that each one is hghly influenced by what the other wants.  God knows I would have an incredibly hard time sorting out my desires from those of my wife.  We are together.  There are no "my desires" and "her desires".  There's just "our desires" and "our needs".  But that does not stop me from being the one who ultimately decides.  Carried too far, this "rubber stamping" thing is how you get to the "It's all about the dom" idiocy.

KnightofMists:  If you want to Dominate her.. you can't start by making choices because that is what she wants.... All you're doing is Rubber stamping what she wants... and if you keep doing that.... She will NEVER submit to you.

The only thing I can say is that this doesn't mirror my experience with my wife.  I make a great many choices because that is what she wants.   Lots and lots of them.  That, somehow, does not stop her from submitting to me when I make a choice which is unpopular with her... even extremely unpopular.  I think the reason that this isn't a problem for us is since we aren't in competition with each other, we are cooperating towards a common goal.

I also have to disagree wtih Solipsistic's statement that her failing to submit to him was a challenge to his authority.  That's kind of absurd since, at this point, she hasn't agreed to grant him any authority.  She is his wife, not his submissive.  If he doesn't have any authority, then there's nothing to be challenged.  As I understand it, that is the step that the couple is at... negotiating if and in what way authority will be transferred and as long as this is consentual that we're talking about, then yes, that's a negotiation.

Finally, let's all of us remember that when the OP's wife talks about "another person", she is talking about a fictional, online avatar.  Her experience is limited to second life only.  Honestly, it's not that much of a surprise that she would find it safer in some ways to experiment with a faceless, completely anonymous and meaningless random peson than with her husband who MATTERS.  It should also be pretty clear that getting your faced slapped in emoted text online is not exactly the same thing as getting it slapped in real life.  Remember that everything the OP's wife has said must be viewed through the filters of "online only experience".

(in reply to Solipsistic)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Need to learn to train - 9/1/2008 2:02:18 PM   
Solipsistic


Posts: 50
Joined: 10/19/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I also have to disagree wtih Solipsistic's statement that her failing to submit to him was a challenge to his authority.  That's kind of absurd since, at this point, she hasn't agreed to grant him any authority.  She is his wife, not his submissive.  If he doesn't have any authority, then there's nothing to be challenged.  As I understand it, that is the step that the couple is at... negotiating if and in what way authority will be transferred and as long as this is consentual that we're talking about, then yes, that's a negotiation.


I meant challenge of authority in that I would interpret her as trying to evoke a dominant response from him, rather than having him go along with what she's saying.  She may be subconsciously trying to get him to "step up" and demand she stop.  I'm making a lot of assumptions, but from the wording of the OP, that's how it sounded to me.  Only he can say whether he thinks that is what is going on.

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 20
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