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Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/30/2008 1:54:56 PM   
StrongSpirit


Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline 		I've been thinking a lot about this lately and have some ideas I want to bounce off the boards.

I have two competing definitions for these close concepts.

Set 1:
Confidence is the belief that things are easy, and/or failure is acceptable.   You don't worry about failure - as it is either unlikely or not important, and think that others can do the same.
Arrogance is the belief that you can do something that other people's can not do. 

Set 2:  Confidence is the internal belief in your own capabilities.  Arrogance is the external display of that belief.

Both sets of definitions have their problems, including some rather strange inferences.   I'm leaning towards definition set two. 

Accepting set one's definition, then a 'confident person', never tries something difficult that has a real consequence of failure.  This seems to me the opposite of real confidence.

Set two conflicts with the common beliefs of submissive (as well as vanilla women).  They find confidence to be a turn on, but arrogance a turn off.  But by Set two's rules, by definition they can never detect confidence, only arrogance.
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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/30/2008 2:03:07 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		A long time ago, my management mentor told me the following...

The difference between arrogance and self-confidence is whether or not you are right (really right, not right in your own mind).

See how that works for you.  Granted, it's one of those glib statements, but it contains more than a few kernels of truth.

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/30/2008 2:32:12 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Status: offline 		I find it's unjustified arrogance that turns me off.  Justified arrogance is hot.

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/30/2008 3:01:55 PM   
chamberqueen


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline 		If you think about it, confidence is a form of trust - either in yourself or in others.  I may be confident that I can clean my Master's toilet better than anyone else, for instance, and that confidence may radiate from me, but it doesn't become arrogance unless I scoff at others who could not do as well or act in some condescending manner.  I can feel confident in the fact that my Master enjoys my company, but if I were to become arrogant about it - as if I was somehow totally more deserving of it than anyone else on the planet or took for granted the fact that He cares about me it could ruin the relationship.

The best motivational speakers are confident, you feel swept away in their words; yet if they came across as arrogant you would often become caught up in that bad attitude and stop listening as careful.  Both tops and bottoms can show confidence, and I've seen many Masters comment that they prefer a self-confident sub or slave.  A little arrogance in a top can make them fascinating.  Too much and no one will want to spend time with them.

Both tops and bottoms can show confidence. 


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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/30/2008 3:25:53 PM   
StrongSpirit


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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

A long time ago, my management mentor told me the following...

The difference between arrogance and self-confidence is whether or not you are right (really right, not right in your own mind).

See how that works for you.  Granted, it's one of those glib statements, but it contains more than a few kernels of truth.


By that definition, people that take lots of chances are arrogant more often and those that play it safe are confident.   It is at heart an 'after the fact' version of Set one, and suffers from similar problems.

Taking a chance and failing should not make you arrogant.  I would rather try and fail than chicken out, even if I only have a 40% odds of success.  


< Message edited by StrongSpirit -- 8/30/2008 3:26:54 PM >

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/30/2008 3:58:03 PM   
leadership527


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Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		I disagree.  I take lots and lots of chances.  I'm the guy that went to executive staff wth a proposal I tagged as worth about a billion dollars annually (yes, with a B).  That's pretty chancy, no?  But when I take such chances, I have a clear view of the problem, the risks, and the likelihood of success.  Did I swing hard on that one?  Yes.  Did I succeed?  No.  Was I right?  Yes -- it failed for exactly the reasons I speculated it would.  However, given the up front capitalization requirements, the likelihood of success, and the ROI on success, it was still a smart play.  What would've been arrogant of me was to say, "I can definitely do this."

I didn't say you had to succeed, I said you had to be right.

However, to your point, I would absolutely use the word "arrogant" for someone who routinely overestimated their chances of success -- especially if they're doing it on someone else's nickel.

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/30/2008 4:14:36 PM   
Focus50


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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit

....a 'confident person', never tries something difficult that has a real consequence of failure.  This seems to me the opposite of real confidence.

I think that's because you've transcended "mere" confidence in this statement.  Logic, intelligence, experience and individual attitude are also factors in finding the right balance between never quitting but not "flogging a dead horse", either.  It ain't "confidence" (or lack of) that keeps me from leaping off a skyscraper and flapping my arms vigorously....
 
Focus.

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/30/2008 4:14:51 PM   
Alumbrado


Posts: 5560
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit

I've been thinking a lot about this lately and have some ideas I want to bounce off the boards.

I have two competing definitions for these close concepts.

Set 1:
Confidence is the belief that things are easy, and/or failure is acceptable.   You don't worry about failure - as it is either unlikely or not important, and think that others can do the same.
Arrogance is the belief that you can do something that other people's can not do. 

Set 2:  Confidence is the internal belief in your own capabilities.  Arrogance is the external display of that belief.

Both sets of definitions have their problems, including some rather strange inferences.   I'm leaning towards definition set two. 

Accepting set one's definition, then a 'confident person', never tries something difficult that has a real consequence of failure.  This seems to me the opposite of real confidence.

Set two conflicts with the common beliefs of submissive (as well as vanilla women).  They find confidence to be a turn on, but arrogance a turn off.  But by Set two's rules, by definition they can never detect confidence, only arrogance.




I agree with the notion above that trust is one of the hallmarks of confidence..and I find little to trust about the arrogant.

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/30/2008 4:30:20 PM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline 		I think what you are calling arrogance is more along the lines of cocky. Arrogance is an overbearing display of self-importance.

People that take on difficult tasks and justifiably believe that they can do it, whether they say so or not, have confidence. Those that just talk the talk and cannot walk the walk are cocky. Another common trait of confident people is that when they fail they will admit it and find a solution. Cocky people will likely make excuses or blame others. They may try again, but often only out of pride. Arrogant people feel they should be given respect without actually earning it and often feel that they are not replaceable.

I am confident and sometimes people that do not know me consider my attitude and my display of confidence as cocky. Most won't say it until I have proven to them that I have good reasons for my confidence. Usually I find out through others that someone thought I was cocky. I have had many occasions and often thought about this definition.

I am not one to quote celebrities but a line from one of Justin Timberlake's songs says "Is it really cocky if you know that it's true". I put cocky and arrogant in close boxes of personality classification.

Dolf

< Message edited by DomDolf -- 8/30/2008 4:33:22 PM >

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/30/2008 4:41:01 PM   
velvetears


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Status: offline 		Confident people you want to help them succeed or win, arrogant people you want to avoid or beat.

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/30/2008 6:01:08 PM   
ArtfulTrainer


Posts: 24
Joined: 12/9/2005
Status: offline 		I may be confident that I can do something, when in fact I'm not sure.
Even those things I have in the past succeeded in may result in failure in the future.

To me arrogance is a form of aggression.
I can be arrogant about something whether or not I am confident and competent to perform it.
I see this every day in physicians who bully people around them as a way to compensate for their incompetence or insecurity.

One can also be both confident and arrogant.

Just my tow cents worth...

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/30/2008 7:03:32 PM   
sistermargaret


Posts: 101
Joined: 8/8/2008
Status: offline 		Yeah, what Lucky Albatross said. In some situations an arrogant man is a pretty good date but its a 'talk the talk, walk the walk' thing.
sm

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/30/2008 7:56:53 PM   
Leatherist


Posts: 5149
Joined: 12/11/2007
Status: offline 		Arrogance-the assumption that you can do/are something.

Confidence-being able to back it up, and knowing you REALLY can, and have.

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/30/2008 8:21:33 PM   
StrongSpirit


Posts: 575
Joined: 4/10/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

I disagree.  I take lots and lots of chances.  I'm the guy that went to executive staff wth a proposal I tagged as worth about a billion dollars annually (yes, with a B).  That's pretty chancy, no?  But when I take such chances, I have a clear view of the problem, the risks, and the likelihood of success.  Did I swing hard on that one?  Yes.  Did I succeed?  No.  Was I right?  Yes -- it failed for exactly the reasons I speculated it would.  However, given the up front capitalization requirements, the likelihood of success, and the ROI on success, it was still a smart play.  What would've been arrogant of me was to say, "I can definitely do this."

I didn't say you had to succeed, I said you had to be right.

However, to your point, I would absolutely use the word "arrogant" for someone who routinely overestimated their chances of success -- especially if they're doing it on someone else's nickel.


Of all the arguments, your logic seems most convincing, but I still have issues.

Would you call someone confident if they correctly realized that they are in fact not the person to do job X and did not try?  After all, they were right.  They successfully calculated their odds of success and the cost of failure, and did not try because they determined they were not up to the task.

I think I would call this, wisdom, not confidence .Confidence is what happens  AFTER you know the difficulty of the task.

Would you call someone that bought a home with a 2 year ARM, no money down, in Las Vegas 18 months ago foolish or arrogant?  They seem to fit your definition of arrogant, having misjudged the odds, difficulty, and their own ability.   I think your definition has them as arrogant, while I would call them foolish.


< Message edited by StrongSpirit -- 8/30/2008 8:26:31 PM >

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/31/2008 9:42:48 AM   
Cyntilating


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Joined: 6/19/2007
Status: offline 		Set 2:  Confidence is the internal belief in your own capabilities.  Arrogance is the external display of that belief.

  actually I would re-write this and say that
  confidence is the internal belief in your own capabilities AND the external display of that belief...
 
gotta be able to walk the talk : )
or its all arrogance.
 


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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/31/2008 9:53:19 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit
Set two conflicts with the common beliefs of submissive (as well as vanilla women).  They find confidence to be a turn on, but arrogance a turn off.  But by Set two's rules, by definition they can never detect confidence, only arrogance.



I absolutely believe you do not understand submission, nor all women very well at all, by this very statement.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/31/2008 10:03:45 AM   
badlilthang


Posts: 357
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		i found this:

Arrogance: offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.

Confidence: 1.full trust; belief in the powers, trustworthiness, or reliability of a person or thing: We have every confidence in their ability to succeed. 2.belief in oneself and one's powers or abilities; self-confidence; self-reliance; assurance: His lack of confidence defeated him.

In my book - Confidence is when You are what You say You are - and carrying with that calm, cool and collected way of life...Arrogance is to think You are better than anyone else - but nothing to back it up with...and most likely to step on others to prove it....


edited for my usual typos..



< Message edited by badlilthang -- 8/31/2008 10:05:08 AM >

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/31/2008 11:54:56 AM   
ExKat


Posts: 300
Joined: 8/25/2008
Status: offline 		  Confidence is silent knowledge that you are capable of handling situations. A confidence dom is capable, strong, and he never has to tell you he is.

Arrogance is bragging about said confidence or, more often, bravado. An arrogant dom is a braggart, not as capable as he believes, and is "always right".

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/31/2008 12:12:25 PM   
aggressiveblkdom


Posts: 127
Joined: 5/21/2007
From: The Dark Side of The Moon
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quote:

ORIGINAL: StrongSpirit

Set 1:
Confidence is the belief that things are easy, and/or failure is acceptable.   You don't worry about failure - as it is either unlikely or not important, and think that others can do the same.
Arrogance is the belief that you can do something that other people's can not do. 

Set 2:  Confidence is the internal belief in your own capabilities.  Arrogance is the external display of that belief.



I believe that both confidence and arrogance are external and internal beliefs of one's capabilities, just different sides of the same coin.

The differences is that confidence comes with a defined and tested sense of self-awareness hence providing proof to yourself that you are capable of doing something, then you externalize that confidence in your actions.

Arrogance on the other hand is the same thing, but lacking that defined and tested sense of self-awareness. Thus this would cause one to believe that they are capable of doing something "just because they can" with no real sense of themselves or their place in things.

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RE: Confidence vs. Arrogance - 8/31/2008 2:01:53 PM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Focus50

It ain't "confidence" (or lack of) that keeps me from leaping off a skyscraper and flapping my arms vigorously....
 
Focus.


*laughs*  And this is why I love your posts.  I don't even remember how long I've been telling people... "you know.. I've learned over time that no matter how stubborn and determined I am, reality is even moreso.  This isn't the roadrunner cartoon.  If you run off the edge of a cliff, you're going to fall, whether or not you look down."

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