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RE: Hubris, Humility, and Human Error - 8/31/2008 2:17:29 PM   
rookey


Posts: 100
Status: offline 		I think self-honesty begins with the realisation that there are more important things than ego .  The realisation that making that ego makes you dumb.  Sometimes dangerously so.

There are stories of young men being refused entry to nightclubs by the bouncers.  They avenge this perceived loss of face by attacking the bouncers and then going to prison for it.  The smart move would have been to just drop it and move on. 

Ego will never let you admit to yourself that you are wrong, that you are doing something foolish, that you are making the wrong decision.  Everyone has known some some egoist who treated their job as yet another ego trip.  Because they are so much clever than everyone else they can afford to ignore others' opinions.  Consequently they make bad decisions and everyone suffers. 

To make realistic judgements, we first need to see the world and ourselves as they actually are.  How else can we be in tune with reality. 

Self-honesty helps make you smart. 

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Hubris, Humility, and Human Error - 8/31/2008 3:26:18 PM   
Roselaure


Posts: 672
Joined: 4/12/2008
Status: offline 		What a great post, softness.  I do think, by my way of thinking about the terms that hubris is worse than humility.  Pride and humility should balance each other, but to me, hubris is to be avoided entirely.

As a sub I want, need, crave to be pleasing.  I alter my actions to please my Dominant, not all at once, but over time.  I'm not sure yet how to avoid one day realizing that I have turned myself inside out to be pleasing to the point that I barely recognize myself anymore.  Yes, being aware and making good choices along the way can mitigate the risk.  However, I am attracted the most to very powerful Dominant personalities, and there is certainly a "moth to the flame" element that I frankly really like.

Right now I'm in a good place, a harmonious compatible situation. I'm not being asked to transform my basic personality to please him, but if I'm being honest, I probably would try if he wanted me to. 

Looking back on this I'm not sure it relates much to the OP.  Sorry if I've hijacked a bit.

_____________________________

Once conform, once do what other people do because they do it, and lethargy steals over all the finer nerves and faculties of the soul.
-Virginia Woolf

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Hubris, Humility, and Human Error - 8/31/2008 4:34:05 PM   
Prinsexx


Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline
i have never been one for accepting that just because we have a language term that thre is therefore an experience to match that term. This seems to me to be a false logic. However i do absolutely accept that if a language term survives for a lengthy period of time, especially one that is in an original form, adopted from another language, that it therefore means the term refers to a universally experienced phenomenon or set of phenomena. And since this is a bdsm site i am going to rspond to what you have posted here within the context of bdsm as i know it, as i experience it.

Hubris 
Greek. hybris "wanton violence, insolence, outrage," originally "presumption toward the gods," of unknown origin. Excessive pride or self-confidence; arrogance. Overbearing pride or presumption; arrogance:

I have experienced hubris in bdsm relationships, indeed o have experienced it more so in my vanilla relationships. I am refferring to an aspect of dominance (not merely refferring to behaviour here but also to mindset), which crosses the safety line for me.

Humilty
A disposition to be humble, a lack of false pride. The quality or condition of being humble; modest opinion or estimate of one's own importance, rank, etc.

I believe myself to be a humble person, more so in certain situatons than in others, neverthless it is a core aspect of my personality. Humility is at the core of who i am and it is an aspect of me which enables me to be predominantly in service to another as a slave. I am willing within this context to be trained to be humbles in aspects of my behaviour which need (in master's eyes0 to be brought under submission, thus enabling better service.
I am also quite fond of the Latin vasis of the word; the Latin root of to humble and to humiliate are in fact the same. thus when  i am humiliated, skilfully, i accept it and think of it as being humbled.

Pride
A becoming or dignified sense of what is due to oneself or one's position or character; self-respect; self-esteem. sense of one's own proper dignity or value; self-respect.  Pleasure or satisfaction taken in an achievement, possession, or association: parental pride.
Yes i also understand the term pride to be object directed and self reflexive. To have pride in an object or person OR to be proud. In both senses pride can be congruent or incongruent. When it is incongruent (as in the words of a parent for example, said in a certain way; i am so proud of her....this can be a subtle but nevertheless a powerful put down or microinequity which
pride in self begets narcisism. There is a particular narcisisistic personality which sees only self. unfortuneately there is a type of dominance that begets narcisism also. Thus there is no sense within that personality that the submissive is anything other than an extenssion to the di=ominant, the submissive is a nothing, a no-one save an ornamentation of the dominant, an ornament of the domianat, rather an extension of. In this way such am ornament, considered an object of property can be dispensed with, any other piece of property.

In whatever walk of life we tread, we balance on the knife edge of pride. On one side, humility and on the other, hubris.

There are many knife edges. The edge is always defined by being on the path, the third way to use a Buddhist expression. The middle path between one extreme and another.


The reason I post this here is that recently pride, humility, and hubris have been high impacting factors in my life. I have the humility to admit that I made a massive and resounding error in judgement about myself, and I have the humility to admit that I believed I could be something that I will actually never be. I caught myself before that poor judgement became hubris.

Yes it takes courage to open up, expose oneself. There is no wrong or right way to do this. I also have exposed myself publicly here on the boards and indeed there is a place of being stuck between what can be a rock and a hard place.

The One True Way is an unhappy condition of any lifestyle.

One True Way Life; in and out of the lifestyle, yes it's happened and i feel myself to be stuck smack bang in the middle of a fashionista type culture. behaviours got to be right, bdsm has to look right......well at least that's what i feel about the so-called lifestyle at the moment. Fundamental codes of behaviour are a reaction to trauma and perhaps, just perhaps, what happens on an individual basis is a kind of fundamentalist response to the reality of bdsm. Just a theory.....like real pain, physical, emotional sado-masochism hurts. Look it does. It might be consensual but it hurts. Full stop. Put pain within a safety net of acceptable codes of conduct and it takes the eade off the pain. someone else is doing it. Someone else does it this way. Someone else dresses this way to do it. someone else says a safety word which is like this. someone else has a contract like this. somewhere there are 128 ways to be a slave....reading a book takes the edge off. There's are many such books of fundamentalism on the planet...see where i am going with this. Set in stone books of fundamentalism can even take the edge of death itself.

Dominants – or what you will
.......N/A

Submissives – or what you will
How do you balance your pride and your submission?
My master wants me to be the best i can be in all aspects of my life be it as a flute player, a mother, a whore and a girl. I find it very very difficult to take compliments, very difficult to accept adjectives as beautiful for example. so i find a balance betwenen what you have set out as the path on either side of me by staying on that middle path, and keeping my focus on what my Master wants for me. This maintain a certain humility within me but enables me to improve step by step so that he can take pride in me.

How easy to you find it to admit that you are wrong, and that errors in judgement are your own?
At the moment i am finding this is a place of learning and i am loving the lesson. It has simply come from being allow3ed to make mistakes and being told that if i am not allowed to make mistakes then how can i learn as all there wil be is punishment for mistakes rather than praise for achievements. I feel safe to say i was wrong. I do not even have to apologise as being allowed to be wrong is built into the system. In the past, in previous relationships i wasn't allowed or i was punished. And yes i felt that the punishment was unjustified most of the time because the punishment felt as if it had come at random, left of field. Were i not such a masochist i would have released myself from those relatuonships far sooner than i did, indeed might not (who can ever say0 have gone into those relatuonships had i felt able to rely on my own judgement more tha i did in the past. Always still learning.

What place is your pride given in the relationship? Is that maintained? Or do you have to maintain it yourself?
I am an extension of my Masters will and therefore an part of Him. I have a moment in time is how i experience this, a moment in time when i come out of a deep submissive act, (particularly one involving deep pain, knife play for example, where i am required to participate in an everyday activity. That;s actually when i feel whole, moving through that momentary transition. The edgiest moment are those when i am serving my familt in an everyday context for example whilst also bearing a needle somewhere on my body. Then i feel that i am bearing my belonging to Master and serving the household at the same time. I am proud of belonging and serving them all and yes i have to maintain it myself. No-one is going to hold my head up high for me even though i will admit praise and love go a long way, as rewards do, in my ability to sustain everything and anything i do.

What means, if any, are you given to communicate to your Dominant that you think they are wrong? Are you allowed to even make that judgement?
There is always a way to make a statement with a question. For example: )using an analogy) i might think Master is wrong for wanting me to strip when i have taken so much care in dressing so i might ask: does this please you master?...pointing to my clothes....at least i then feel that Master has seen what i am wearing and how i might feel pride in my appearance.
It's more difficult when a pain limit is being transgressed as i have consented to my limits being His. Then, as i am only human, i might kick (can't scream or cry out in a houseful like this). But i trust that Master learns from those moments, as he rarely goes two notches past my limit. This is the only way i can state that it is actually a two sided affair.
However i am learning to trust my instinct which is a base line and i simply feel at the deepest level that my Master is not making mistakes and therefore is my One.

How do you behave when your pride has been hurt generally? … and by your Dominant?
If i have been put down or my pride in myself has been diminished i have always carefully and quite meticulously looked within myself for answers. I have found it difficult as a slave type, to find fault in a dominant, way way past my own well-being.
I invariably have in the past gone outside the dynamic. To ask for help, to ask for support. friends in this so called bdsm lifestyle have pointed out that i have lost pride in self beyond well being.

How does your Dominant behave when you have hurt theirs?

Hurting a dominant's feelings is no different to hurting any other person's feelings. However if the dominant is a narcissistic type then that will be reacted to with exclusion, an utter disbelief with strutting and pouting, or indeed anger....reactions pertinent to that narcissistic type.
I was in an isolated situation back in July. There was a moment on my last day, in Scotland actually on my own, when the so-called master concerned through a temper tantrum.
He said; No one behaves like that towards me. I lay alone and searched my soul all night long, desperate to find within me what i had done wrong. But in truth i knew that i hadn't. I couldn't blame myself but indeed this did not mean that i should blame him. It isd pointless blaming another for the breakdown in a dynamic anyway it's the dynamic after all that breaks down. He lost his temper, hit a moment of pure hubris, and i realised that i had become proud of belonging, proud of being in a dynamic which had just crumbled unexpectedly right in front of my eyes. I now have a healthy sense of pride in myself and the strength of courage i found deep within and with the help of friends i dragged myself home and put the pieces back together.

Leaving Narcissus, when we are nought but their Echo, often means that all we are left with is the scent of them in the air. the truth is there was never anyone there in the first place....they were with themselves and in their own eyes only.

Huge hugs. will send mail.


< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 8/31/2008 4:47:24 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Hubris, Humility, and Human Error - 8/31/2008 7:17:16 PM   
Ialdabaoth


Posts: 1073
Joined: 5/4/2008
From: Tempe, AZ
Status: offline
quote:

Dominants – or what you will
Given that you not only have responsibility for yourself, but for another (or others) how do you ensure that your pride does not become hubris?


If I'm smart, I sell myself well enough that no one calls it "hubris", and anyone who DOES dare call it "hubris" is quickly ostracized by my fanbase.

quote:

How prepared are you to admit to being wrong?


I am personally VERY prepared to admit that I am wrong, and do so frequently. Regrettably, this does not make me look very "dominant". Like it or not, we have an idea in our heads in this community that dominants are never wrong - except when we're having these discussions, in which case we say "no, I want someone who will admit his faults!" and "I respect someone who can admit when he made a mistake!" but then turn around and completely betray that idea in practice.

quote:

Do you find it harder to admit you are wrong to your submissive because of the power exchange?


Yes, and not just to the submissive. It's not that we don't want leaders who are capable of admitting mistakes - it's that we DON'T WANT LEADERS WHO ARE CAPABLE OF *MAKING* MISTAKES. Our preference goes something like:

1. People who can convince us they never make mistakes (at least, not important ones)
2. People we don't know well enough to have seen any evidence regarding their mistakes
3. People who will admit to their mistakes
4. People who TRY to convince us that they never make mistakes, and fail.

quote:

What place does your pride have in your relationship? Are you prepared to sacrifice it if needs be?



What place does your submissive’s pride have, if any, in your relationship? Do you require the sacrifice of their pride because of their submissiveness?
quote:

How do you react to being told that you are wrong by your submissive? Does your pride allow you examine this, or do your defences rise in attack?


That depends - am I being told that I am wrong because I'm about to make a bad decision, or am I being told I am wrong because I'm being attacked? Or better - because I'm being "tested" to see if I can out-maneuver the submissive's headgames? And if I AM being told I'm wrong because I'm about to make a bad decision, HOW DO I TELL?

quote:

How do you treat/work with your submissive when their pride has been hurt? Is it different when you are the one who hurt it?


Mostly, I try to compliment them, reassure them, and remind them of how awesome they are - and remind them of how much we've accomplished and how amazing they are. Whether this comes across as sincere or not depends on how much they want to hear it.

quote:

How do you behave if your pride has been hurt by your submissive? (tricky one to answer truthfully that)


Mostly, I walk away and accept defeat. If I'm going to be torn down, then I'm no Dom - and I'm certainly not theirs.

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Hubris, Humility, and Human Error - 8/31/2008 7:58:17 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Ok, here's go my attempt to answer these but I can't promise i"m doing the quotations correctly...

In general I'd say the short answer to all your questions is that I am fully aware of the undeniable fact that both I and my slave are simply human beings.

quote:

ORIGINAL: softness

Dominants – or what you will
Given that you not only have responsibility for yourself, but for another (or others) how do you ensure that your pride does not become hubris?


I have no more responsibility that my slave does to our relationship than my slave does. This dynamic only functions in a healthy fashion if we both remember that every hast to be with the program.

What authority I do have must be tempered by knowing my own limitations in terms of knowledge and a self-awareness of our mutual limitations as human beings.

quote:


How prepared are you to admit to being wrong? Do you find it harder to admit you are wrong to your submissive because of the power exchange?


We don't have a power exchange... we have an authority dynamic. Our power is frankly equal in that we walked into this as much equals as possible and can each walk away from it.

Authority is a matter of someone granting your certain rights to make decisions and yes, I have worried if I made an error it might show me as incapable of that authority. Then I realized I was just a human being and reasoned that if my sub didn't know that, he certainly wasn't living in reality so we would be taking that next step toward an owner-slave dynamic.

quote:


What place does your pride have in your relationship? Are you prepared to sacrifice it if needs be?


I'm not sure how pride needs to be sacrificed in any healthy relationship....

quote:


What place does your submissive’s pride have, if any, in your relationship? Do you require the sacrifice of their pride because of their submissiveness?


See above.

I my experience both the people I simply trained and those I went on to have deeper relationships with always developed a greater sense of self and pride in themselves. I think pride is a healthy feeling to possess.

quote:


How do you react to being told that you are wrong by your submissive? Does your pride allow you examine this, or do your defences rise in attack?


Ah, yes, this is where having both a sense of your humanness and some protocols can make a huge difference. My slave knows that there are certain ways he should point out things to me.. questions work great for this with me. By the same token, I've learned that asking him questions also works far better than simply saying "you are wrong".

Who honestly wants to hear "you are wrong"?

quote:


How do you treat/work with your submissive when their pride has been hurt? Is it different when you are the one who hurt it?


Listening and validating are great techniques. Unfortunately I have some "guy qualities" in that I also have a tendency to try and "fix things" and I've had to learn over the years to try and resist that in myself. The goal when pride is hurt is to help someone recover that sense of self-worth.. they can't do that by me "fixing" things only by figuring things out himself.

quote:


How do you behave if your pride has been hurt by your submissive? (tricky one to answer truthfully that)


Not my Fox... by exes, yes, usually because they were discovered in lies... that really wounds my pride because i feel after so many years I should be better at spotting a liar. To be honest, I cut those people out of my life entirely, no second chances around here.




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Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Hubris, Humility, and Human Error - 8/31/2008 9:47:24 PM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Hi there soft,

Dominants – or what you will
Given that you not only have responsibility for yourself, but for another (or others) how do you ensure that your pride does not become hubris?

This is actually a topic that's very important to me.  There's a fellow I knew in Chile named Bernie who was a gypsy.  He had grown up in the US literally hunting alligators with his father as a boy for food.  He'd lived a pretty amazing life, and eventually became quite wealthy.  Yet everywhere he went, he had a warm, genuine smile that he was quick with, was quick to forgive and forget people who wronged him, and literally beamed when other people liked him.  In short, he never projected an image of a man who felt more important than any other person.

When I think about responsibility for myself and for others, I think of Bernie.  I don't think the man was capable of hubris, and in my life I try my best to emulate him.

How prepared are you to admit to being wrong? Do you find it harder to admit you are wrong to your submissive because of the power exchange?

I can and have apologized at the drop of a pin.  I don't want to always be right, I want to always be fair.  That can be tricky in an M/s relationship, where I don't want to give my slave the impression that she has a right to fairness, but rather she has a man who chooses to make fairness an important part of his life.

What place does your pride have in your relationship? Are you prepared to sacrifice it if needs be?

Nope.  My pride is just as important part of who I am as my humility.  Pride can mean many things though; if you're addressing false pride (i.e. hubris) that's quite another story.  By being quick to accept my own fault, I believe I am better able to assert when I should (and justifiably) feel pride. Pride, in and of itself, to me, doesn't equate with anything negative; it equates with a powerful sense of identity.  I am proud because I am honest, loyal, and dedicated.  I am proud because I can and will protect and nurture my family at all costs.  I am proud because I have good things and people in my life worth protecting and defending.  I am proud because I am someone I like.  I don't think any of those statements can be remotely viewed as false, arrogant, or negative.

What place does your submissive’s pride have, if any, in your relationship? Do you require the sacrifice of their pride because of their submissiveness?

This is complicated.  I take pride in my slave's achievements.  I don't think I take it for myself; I can be often seen  'patting her on the back.'  I enjoy commending her, I loathe having to correct her.  At the same time, I demand she also sacrifice her own hubris.  charlotte is rarely prideful (in a negative way.)  She enjoys surrendering her accolades and value to her owner.  On the rare occasion that she lets hubris get into her head, she usually has it swiftly knocked right out. 

How do you react to being told that you are wrong by your submissive? Does your pride allow you examine this, or do your defences rise in attack?

Much of it depends on how she tells me.  If she uses it as leverage to some emotional power struggle, she's usually suffers palm-face (open palm to cheek.)  If she brings her concern to me humbly, I make an effort to praise her.  Indeed, even if she suffers palm-face, I still try to take a moment to remind her that it wasn't what she said, but how she said it, and that I will strive to make whatever changes that I ultimately deem are necessary.  It's worth mentioning that my slave bringing an issue to my attention doesn't necessarily mean that I will agree with her on the need for correction; only that she has that open line of communication to express herself.

How do you treat/work with your submissive when their pride has been hurt? Is it different when you are the one who hurt it?
How do you behave if your pride has been hurt by your submissive? (tricky one to answer truthfully that)

I strive to remind her that she's valuable to me, important to me, and that we both need to be willing to forgive ourselves and each other.  That as partners in the relationship, we will stumble, fall, get hurt, get up again, and need to dust each other off.  By approaching our relationship and our world as a team working together, rather than two individuals floating in space, we find much more strength and support in each other, and encourage each other to work even harder towards our goals.

Yeah, corny, I know.  It's true though, and I've just written almost verbatim things we've said to each other recently, and in the past.

Take care lovely soft,

Stephan




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"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Hubris, Humility, and Human Error - 8/31/2008 10:08:13 PM   
charlotteS


Posts: 203
Joined: 3/9/2008
Status: offline 		Submissives – or what you will
How do you balance your pride and your submission?

I think pride is an important part of submission.  I find that usually when I don't do well at a task Master set me to it is because I didn't take pride in my work.  Master expects me to take pride in my appearance for example.  He enjoys seeing me walk with my head tall, feeling sexy and confident.  However I think that this pride must be balanced with humility.  I believe it's important for the two to exist together.  I try to balance it by taking pride in myself and my service to another, and remembering that just because I do a good job doesn't make me better than someone else or give me some kind of right to expect recognition.  It's funny, when I get praise from others I sometimes let it go to my head but when I receive praise from Master I feel humbled.  I'm not sure why that is...will think on it.

How easy to you find it to admit that you are wrong, and that errors in judgement are your own?

I find this very hard to do when I'm feeling attacked which I often feel due to some of my own issues.  Generally I do everything I can to explain why something isn't my fault.  But then usually when Master won't accept this, corrects me and leaves me alone for a while I calm down, remember that he's not attacking me and that I'm grateful to be told how to improve.  Then it is suddenly very easy for me to see how I'm wrong and I can easily go admit that.

What place is your pride given in the relationship? Is that maintained? Or do you have to maintain it yourself?

I think I sort of covered this in my first response.  I am supposed to take pride in my service and am expected to maintain that myself although he also gives me encouragement.  He tells me when he's proud of me and why.

What means, if any, are you given to communicate to your Dominant that you think they are wrong? Are you allowed to even make that judgement?

I am allowed to respectfully voice an opinion but I am not ultimately allowed to determine that he is in fact wrong.  If he says the sky is green then the sky is green.

How do you behave when your pride has been hurt generally? … and by your Dominant?

When my pride is hurt generally I tend to try to take it in stride but don't always succeed.  If someone I don't know or care about calls me fat for example I just kind of laugh (I don't consider myself fat,) and I try to not respond with anger.  If someone I do know and care about says the same thing though it can affect me rather deeply and make me go out and purchase a bunch of personal trainer sessions that I now have not used....grrrrr.  If it's hurt by Master I usually hang my head, silently struggle inside and then try to return to humility by reminding myself that he is not attacking me but trying to help me be my best.

How does your Dominant behave when you have hurt theirs?

Hmmmm.....he withdraws usually, takes some time to himself and then tends to come to me and explain how what I did or said affected him.

Hope that makes sense.  I feel like your post got a lot of thoughts running through my head and I'm not certain I managed to really capture them on paper.....errrr....computer.

charlotte






< Message edited by charlotteS -- 8/31/2008 10:16:16 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Hubris, Humility, and Human Error - 9/1/2008 4:31:17 AM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		This is a great post 'cause, like, ya know, hubris is one of my favorite words.  As you point out, presumption towards the gods was a criminal offense in ancient greece, punishable by death.  Being something of a pantheist, with a superstitious bent, knowing that tends to keep me honest, or at least nervous enough about divine retribution to constantly wonder if I'm being honest enough. 

For me, its about understanding my limits in a general sense, though its applicable to bd/sm where its soooo tempting to bite off more than we can chew.  On analysis, most of my serious mistakes, the one's that have hurt me or people close to me, and the ones that could have been avoided, have come from pride, not so much the inability to admit a mistake, but mistaken belief that I can make it right.  I have alot of pride--both justified and unjustified.

Submissives – or what you will
How do you balance your pride and your submission?
Via self-awareness and a continual questioning of my reasons for doing things particularly sticking to plans that aren't working and situations that are less than optimal for everyone involved.

How easy to you find it to admit that you are wrong, and that errors in judgement are your own?

I don't really believe that things can be divided neatly into right and wrong, but I do believe in 'fuck ups.'  Over time, it's gotten easier for me to admit I fucked up.  A couple years ago I had one of those life crises where the learning curve got really steep really fast.  Its taken a while for the full implications of that learning period to fully manifest itself, but I've lost alot of my illusions concerning my own powers to make everything right.

What place is your pride given in the relationship? Is that maintained? Or do you have to maintain it yourself?

Not relevant at the moment.

What means, if any, are you given to communicate to your Dominant that you think they are wrong? Are you allowed to even make that judgement?

Not relevant at the moment.

How do you behave when your pride has been hurt generally?

In general, I suck it up and deal.

… and by your Dominant?

If its been hurt by someone I care about and have developed a rappor with, I get verbal with them.

How does your Dominant behave when you have hurt theirs?

Not relevant at the moment.



< Message edited by gypsygrl -- 9/1/2008 4:33:44 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Hubris, Humility, and Human Error - 9/1/2008 4:49:40 AM   
leatherknight245


Posts: 5
Joined: 5/16/2006
Status: offline 		Good morning everyone,

I had been reading up reccently, on the concept of "cuckolding", includding the psychology and emotional components behind this type of activity.   Being a Dominant male of course, my query quickly put me on course to the alternative and personally more useful concept of cuckqueaning.   Honestly, I cannot fully understand the submissive experience in such an arrangement; the emotional turmoil I do get...but the thrill that a submissive feels is unfortunately a little beyond me at this point.

I guess what I am looking for here, is perhaps some insight into the female experience of a cuckqueaning encounter.   Is this activity as rare as I am getting the impression it is?  

I am more than a little intrigued by this concept, however, to be honest, I do not know if this would be something for me and my current sub, until I gained more understanding into the submissive female mind on such an activity.

Thank you for reading

Pahyn (leatherknight245)

(in reply to leadership527)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Hubris, Humility, and Human Error - 9/1/2008 6:22:49 AM   
missturbation


Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
Status: offline
quote:

How do you balance your pride and your submission?

By taking pride in my submission whatever shape that may come in.  For a couple of years now i have taken pride in being able to take the harsh beatings and being treat as nothing more than chattel. By chattel i mean a piece of meat, non emotional commitment. Now i find myself in a relationship where i am property (emotional investment) and i am struggling to always have some pride. Some of the very simplest things are the ones i am finding  it hard to take pride in. For example holding hands in public and being escorted to dinner rather than led to dinner. My submission has always been such that these were things that were not done / were not allowed. I took great pride in being able to smile, enjoy and withstand these things. Part of me struggles to embrace that my level of submission is still the same maybe even greater now and that i can be proud of that. 
 
quote:

How easy to you find it to admit that you are wrong, and that errors in judgement are your own?

I find it extremely hard to admit that i am wrong but will always do it. I suspect that after thirty five years of being this way it is not likely to become something that is easy for me.
I believe that we can be partially blinded by others opinions that we can be or do certain things. I'm a bit of a believer in when things go wrong in a relationship it is not only my error of judgement, but theirs too. It's a kind of 'it takes two to tango' kind of thing!
 
quote:

What place is your pride given in the relationship? Is that maintained? Or do you have to maintain it yourself?

I don't think i give it a place per se. I think it is just there. I think we both maintain it equally.
 
quote:

What means, if any, are you given to communicate to your Dominant that you think they are wrong? Are you allowed to even make that judgement?

Erm this hasn't come up yet. I would think i would be able to communicate politely and respectfully my feelings and go from there.
 
quote:

How do you behave when your pride has been hurt generally? … and by your Dominant?

Generally i get a little upset and go pretty quiet. Sir hasnt hurt my pride as of yet so i can't say but would assume i would react pretty much the same.
 
quote:

How does your Dominant behave when you have hurt theirs?

Hmm i don't think i have hurt His pride and i sincerely hope i won't.
 
Just as an aside........
 
quote:

I have the humility to admit that I made a massive and resounding error in judgement about myself, and I have the humility to admit that I believed I could be something that I will actually never be.

Don't let recent events dint your pride too much hun. I personally believe that you have it in you to be whatever it is you choose to be in the long run. Just because now was not the right time does not mean that it will never be.







_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to softness)
Profile   Post #: 30
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