RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (Full Version)

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pompeii -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 1:26:35 PM)

Hmmm.... let me restate your assumptions as ...
a) The whole "power" thing is governed by the rules of supply and demand;
b) Given the huge supply of male Doms ... and the presumed much smaller supply of female subs;
c) The natural order would give female subs negotiating advantage (presumably because they are free to choose the best Dom, of many).

Given those assumptions, your hypothesis is ...
a) The nature of the Dom is to wield power over the sub;
b) A really good (i.e., cunning) Dom can wield more power over the sub than the assumptions above ascribe to him;
c) Where the "cunning" Dom's sub doesn't take advantage of the power conferred upon her by her natural supply-and-demand advantages.

If that's what you were saying, I guess I agree, except only in some of the assumptions and not the natural conclusion.



faerytattoodgirl -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 1:34:02 PM)

sub females have more power....damn straight....how many men just want to get off?  who provides that???  females..... end of story...


iiiiiiiiiiii haveeeeee the poweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer...





lusciouslips19 -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 2:39:45 PM)

I may have more power until I meet, have chemistry and do the power exchange. men are always at the advantage. They can connect without emotion. That gives them power.



leadership527 -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 3:08:17 PM)

There's another angle to this also.  While the supply of doms, subs, or kumquats may be huge, the supply of GOOD ones, in my experience, no matter what it is that you're looking for, is always far far smaller.  I have never once found myself in a situation where I was surrounded by wonderful, alluring, well-adjusted, bright, intelligent women who were also a good match for me physically, mentally, and emotionally and happend to be available.  I'm not seeing a ton of posts from female subs saying, "Gosh, what should I do?  There are dozens of doms that all seem wonderful to me in every respect and I just don't know how to choose."  Matter of fact, I haven't read a SINGLE post like that.  But I have read, from every different quarter, "Sheez, I wonder if I'll ever find someone."

In my experience, the truth of the matter is that finding a GOOD mate is hard for pretty much everyone.



MrRodgers -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 3:19:30 PM)

I take a different view altogether. IF and yes it is a big if...a man is truly worthy of having a sub/slave and thus the power to select a prospective sub/slave from the net, there are literally dozens or more from all over the country and those that when finding such a man...are more than willing to eventually relocate.



colouredin -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 3:32:02 PM)

To OP (not read replies)

I am not the only student in the relationship, we all learn every day if I am with a Dom that doesnt mean that he is instantly the oricle of all wisdom and I am there to be taught the beauty of a relationship is you teach each other. I dont see this as roles you pick out of the clear blue sky you can see Dominance in people and vice versa (nothing to do with weakness and strength by the way just what context people work better in) Therefore your middle aged unsuccessful hillbillies wouldnt really fit because you have used negative labels, what is successful what is middle aged even. Do we need to have amazing careers to be successful? Or do we maybe need lots of friends? Or maybe success is defined by how happy we are and therefore being true to ones self in whatever capacity that is makes them successful.

I have met and played and been with a fair few Dominants it for me has very little to do with how attractive or rich they are, There is an intangible quality that some people have that make it more than a game, they arent filling a silly role and thats far more horny than anything else.



pompeii -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 3:40:49 PM)

Hypothesis:
Women have more power over men at first; until they meet; then men have more power because they are less emotionally attached".

Sounds just about right to me. Women, as we all know, can get us men to do nearly anything, just by sidling up to us and offering something sexy in return (well, I'm that easy ... dunno about the rest of you guys ... but they can get me to do almost anything with sex) .... but ... hmmm... I hadn't thought of the lack of emotional involvement angle ....

Yeah. I guess you're right. We men (I men, in the singular, at least) can have a perfectly wonderful non-emotional relationship with a sub, just for and about the sex. I didn't realize that gave me power, but, I guess it does. It give me the power to move on at will, I guess. Interesting. Very interesting.

I guess that's why marriage doesn't allow you that moving-on power without halving your assets and taking another half out of your future income for a decade or two. Marriage is the great equalizer between men and women, then, I guess ... 'cuz the guy can't just move on willy nilly.



colouredin -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 3:44:11 PM)

Ahhh i think though that men are more romantic than women and also when a man falls he falls harder, just my perception of course there are always going to be exceptions, i dont really get emotionally attached to people really and i have had some wonderful sex only realtionships maybe men dont think that there is more than sex only relationships? though i doubt thats true



kiwisub12 -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 3:49:15 PM)

damn - i knew i should have held out for more money, rather than sensitivity, intelligence, compatibility, humor, etc etc.


            *wanders off mumbling about sneaky men!*



stella41b -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 4:00:16 PM)

I don't get this argument at all but then again I'm looking at this from my own perspective. That perspective has nothing to do with quantity, but quality.

My own theory is more that there's someone for everybody but meeting the right person for you at any given moment - that's the challenge.

You see the BDSM community, or more accurately this particular area of society isn't just dom and sub or switch or hetero and gay, but a whole mass of humanity defining themselves specifically and seeking specific definitions within others to have relationships of a specific nature. Therefore the statement that there are less female submissives than male doms is about as meaningful as saying there's more Daddy type doms than Gorean kajirae - no meaning at all.

In my local newspaper recently there was a survey on how many women and how many men there were in each borough of London, and which borough had more women and which borough had more men and therefore, when dating a man or a woman, which area you should head for. I'm sitting here thinking is it me or is it them?

I live in the borough of Wandsworth, which is next to the borough of Lambeth. In Wandsworth there's more women than men, and in Lambeth more men than women. But what if half the women in Wandsworth are lesbians and 95% of the men in Lambe6th are heterosexuals? What if 60% of the women are submissive and 90% of the men are submissive? What if 10% of the men actually prefer being women and 20% of the women don't want to be in a relationship?

My advice to newbies is always the same, develop your online support network, then your real time support network, develop friendships, short term relationships and take all this gradually. Learn, explore, grow, develop,.work out what you are into, what you're not into, and move on. As you do this you learn, you find yourself, you get to know great people, you explore your interests and eventually you end up with the right relationship.

The further you go on this journey the more difficult it is to find someone, so it's always best to know yourself, know what you can offer, what you're about, what you accept and what you don't accept and who you want to share your experience with. You can shorten these increasing odds by knowledge, experience and having an open mind. Otherwise you're just pissing in the wind and will end up going round and round in circles and getting into stuff you're not sure about with those who aren't sure about you.

The figures are therefore meaningless. Just go by the people you know. It should all come together in the end.



Paulnz -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 4:03:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tychtyp



Agree, disagree, refinements?



There is a segment of the sub population that trade in one Dom for another in their search for the great big monster. When they find ' the one ' she buys him a Harley-Davidson which he then rides off on with someone 10 years younger on the back. Just saying.



tsatske -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 4:40:22 PM)

Yea, Pompeii, i get that thing about men wanting sex and women being able to get a man to do anything. But, here's the thing - that is one of the kinds of power I exchange, when I enter a power exchange relationship.
By agreement, i put Him in a position where he can get sex anytime and anyway he wants it, and I beg for it. That's why it's a 'power exchange'.
The result is something I just LOVE, and find sexy as HELL - which I call the 'Dom smile'. That is the smile He gets on His face when He is chatting with a bunch of 'nilla guys, to whom He is not nec. out of the closet; and they are all talking about what they have to put up with from the woman in their life, just to get an occasional blowjob - that smile that says, 'yea, what do I have to do to get a blowjob? Oh, yea, i remeber - snap my fingers.'



slaveluci -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 4:57:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tychtyp
So you see perverse outcomes like a far more intelligent sub convinced that her master has so much to teach her, when to the outside world he's really just another unsuccessful, middle-aged hillbilly

The only thing perverse here is your use of the bigoted word "hillbilly."  Just because someone is seen as "unsuccessful" to "the outside world" he's a "hillbilly?"  Yep.  Pretty perverse indeed[:'(] but, as usual, only offensive to me it seems[&o]................luci



Prinsexx -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 5:00:49 PM)

First Law of bdsm Dynamic

Every Dom(me) has an equal and opposite submissive(s).



Padriag -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 5:25:37 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tychtyp

Agree, disagree, refinements?


Disagree... your suppositions are based on too many unsupported assumptions, your arguement is not well thought out and too simplistic.  For example, you assume there are more male dominants than female submissives.  However, have you considered the qualitative aspect... that is... how many of those "male dominants" have something substantial with which to attract said female submissives?  How many of those female submissives or male dominants are just toying with online fantasies and will never go beyond that?  Even if there were more male dominants than female submissives, does this really equate to a shift in "power"?  What of male dominants who refuse to compromise their personal standards regardless of what any submissive does, are they actually giving up any power or just letting go of a substandard submissive (pardon the pun)?

I'll grant you, initial appearances give the impression there are more male dominants than female submissives... however, after more than a few years of observation my personal and considered opinion is that there are a lot less of both than that initial impression would indicate.



pompeii -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 5:50:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tsatske
By agreement, i put Him in a position where he can get sex anytime and anyway he wants it, and I beg for it. That's why it's a 'power exchange'.
The result is something I just LOVE, and find sexy as HELL - which I call the 'Dom smile'. That is the ... smile that says, 'yea, what do I have to do to get a blowjob? Oh, yea, i remeber - snap my fingers.'


Damn ... you gals are tricky!!!!!!!!!!!



heartcream -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 6:12:17 PM)

There may be more men available than there are chicks for them. Me?- I dig the ones that dont like me back, so that says what? The thing is, if one is looking for a special match, it is not about how many Doms or subs are out there, but two people coming together. Pretty tricky shit from my experience.



shadesofo -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 6:24:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Padriag

quote:

ORIGINAL: tychtyp

Agree, disagree, refinements?


Disagree... your suppositions are based on too many unsupported assumptions, your arguement is not well thought out and too simplistic.  For example, you assume there are more male dominants than female submissives.  However, have you considered the qualitative aspect... that is... how many of those "male dominants" have something substantial with which to attract said female submissives?  How many of those female submissives or male dominants are just toying with online fantasies and will never go beyond that?  Even if there were more male dominants than female submissives, does this really equate to a shift in "power"?  What of male dominants who refuse to compromise their personal standards regardless of what any submissive does, are they actually giving up any power or just letting go of a substandard submissive (pardon the pun)?

I'll grant you, initial appearances give the impression there are more male dominants than female submissives... however, after more than a few years of observation my personal and considered opinion is that there are a lot less of both than that initial impression would indicate.



******************

You make many excellent points... some of the same things that made me uncomfortable with the original post.  It isn't supply and demand that determines power in a relationship; it's much more complicated than that.  It can be said that the one who can walk away is the one with the most power... but i believe you can equally say that a powerful person can inspire the other to *want* to be in the relationship... regardless of Dom or sub orientation.  After all... power should work *for* a relationship as much as it works in ending a relationship. 

Power isn't something you attain by default.  If a Dom can't attract a sub because she is choosing other Doms erradicating all the other Doms (and thus removing her power of choice) is not going to suddenly make her want to serve Him.  Imho power doesn't come from supply and demand... nor does it come ready made within any specific lifestyle orientation.  I believe power comes from within.  It comes from knowing what we are, what we can do, what we can give, and what we want from ourselvesl from our partners, and from life in general.  Then power comes from honing the skills we need to achieve our goals after we identify them.   Imho that works equally for Doms and subs, Males and females. 

Subs can carry a lot of power... after all... there is power in having the ability to give someone else everything they want... which could be considered the epitomy of service.  However... if they use that power to control another person then i'm not sure they could technically be considered submissive... that seems a bit oxymoronic.  But surely Doms can carry that exact same power.... depending, of course, on His ability to make a sub happy by allowing her to serve Him. 

Perhaps the best question we can ask ourselves when we perceive a pattern of feeling powerless (or find ourselves being passed over for consideration on a regular basis) is "if i were my own potential mate... what would i find attractive in me?"  "If i were a Dom... would i want a sub like me?  Or if i were a sub... would i want a Dom like me?"  This might be more productive than predicting doom based on some hypothetical law of sociology... smiles. 

teresa



Solipsistic -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 6:24:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Last time I saw an argument like this, someone threw in a monkey wrench by stating that the number of male Doms was highly variable depending on whether the wanker wannabees were included.


I agree with this statement.  In my experience, which is limited to 20s and very early 30s, the consensus among girls I come across seems to be that there are not nearly enough quality dominants.  I'm sure there are plenty of guys who style themselves dominant, but that is not the same.  In the higher age groups, I'm sure that changes, but the OP looks young enough that I'm not quite sure where he is coming from.



Leatherist -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 6:45:54 PM)

Only about 20% can really manage an actual D/s relationship..and very few of them find a good match.

Most people in this are just half ass role players-so your stats are pretty skewed.



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