RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters

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tychtyp -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 6:46:53 PM)
There's something for everyone in this post: WhiplashSmile2, my argument doesn't rely on the assumption that people are “void of emotions.” In fact, I argue that some submissives are emotionally vulnerable because of the potentially powerful coercive forces in dominant-submissive relationships, and that this vulnerability can be exploited by people with good grasp of psychological control techniques to fool subs into believing in stupid, untrue things. badlilthang, I define success as, yes, obtaining wealth and prestige. I didn't say success is happiness. Bstardsbitch, a dominant can apply well-understood psychological techniques to insinuate his power deeply in the psyche of a willing individual. Ever tried convincing a cult member that his belief system is a load of horseshit? It almost never works, even if you have incontrovertible evidence he's wrong. Once people firmly latch onto a certain belief, it can be nigh impossible to dislodge it. I'll leave it to you to complete the analogy. Oh, and I've never been dumped by someone for an older dom or any other dom. It's kind of silly of you to snipe at me like that. Did I hit a nerve? catize, maybe, maybe not. As long as you undertook your search diligently as an intelligent, informed “seller,” you're probably in a pretty good spot. DesFIP, now that's kind of silly to believe with 100% conviction. There are probably hundreds, thousands of people floating out there who, in other circumstances, could've made you happier. Everyone settles if they don't want to end up alone, and it's not a bad thing—just don't delude yourself with romantic foolishness bordering on “soul mate” crap. Darcyandthedark, you seem to be confused about the way I'm talking about power. When I assert that subs are more powerful than doms, I'm speaking in terms of negotiating power and reduced search times in finding mates. When I talk about the coercive control power doms can have, I'm talking about psychological influence. They're qualitatively different. ShaktiSama, I'm delighted to hear that the hillbillies are making an effort to break out of their mold as incestuous, uneducated yokels by moving into the violent ape space. I'm not convinced that unsuccessful yokels are the best teachers of anything, other than perhaps mediocrity. I agree that older people are wiser, but there are plenty of ignorant, stupid, self-aggrandizing oldsters a potential sub could fall under. I heartily agree with you that the outside world is often better ignored. After all, the average human being is basically a retard who can't take care of himself nor think with any real clarity. E2Sweet, thanks for the highly intelligent response. The imbalance doesn't lend itself to a “numbers card” that can be invoked in an argument, but rather exists as the relatively larger opportunity set the submissive has access to. As for your observation that switching out to a “better” mate is only a possibility that may not be instantiated, I'd like to point out that what matters more is the difference between the probabilities of a sub finding a new mate and a dom finding a new mate: the dom has far more to lose, because he'll have to hustle harder for a new sub to boss around, and he faces a much higher chance of ending up empty-handed. DarkSteven, good point. Pompeii, could you elaborate? This is tiring. I guess I'll respond to the rest later.

KatyLied -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 6:55:50 PM)
In the beginning the advantage is to the female. I'm going by numbers alone. There are more males, less females, we can afford to be choosy, or at least more choosy than our male conterparts. I'm only going by the blue vs pink when I'm on the other side looking at how many people are recently on-line. As far as quality partners, I think those are some narrow numbers, regardless of gender or side of the slash. It takes a lot of digging. And once you add the qualifiers to suit your needs, it can become even narrower. In summary: women have power early on, but there are few quality people regardless of that advantage.

StayOfExecution -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 7:09:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tychtyp As for your observation that switching out to a “better” mate is only a possibility that may not be instantiated, I'd like to point out that what matters more is the difference between the probabilities of a sub finding a new mate and a dom finding a new mate: the dom has far more to lose, because he'll have to hustle harder for a new sub to boss around, and he faces a much higher chance of ending up empty-handed. Not neccesarily. If a Dom picks his subs from a barrel of less-desirable women, who are in a lower echelon than himself, he could actually be knee-deep in pussy and high in demand with a certain type. Whereas a discrimant and attractive female who is holding out for someone decent would have a smaller number of options.

duhmoment -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (8/31/2008 8:32:31 PM)
The power is never held by another person. It is always with yourself, only sometimes people can't see that. Nobody stays with anyone unless it is by choice. The idea that anyone could force someone to stay with them is unrealistic. Women have a plethora of instant admirers, meaning there are always a ton of men around who would gladly act on that initial sexual desire. But then what? What else does she have that he wants to stick around for? Lust can't sustain a relationship. Because of how human sexuality works, women play to men's impulses. In that arena it's safe to say women have the power to get laid on a whim, whereas men do not, unless they are particularly tasty specimens. But because of how relationships work, being voluntary and based in mutual satisfaction of needs, once you get beyond the initial attraction you're talking about two people on an equal footing, and then it can actually be more challenging for the woman given the man's superficial interest in any next good looking woman who wanders within his field of view. I don't view power in relationships as being one person's power over the other in the sense that one is taking something the other would rather keep. I see it as an accomodation of the fact that in both leading and following each partner has their role, that one without the other won't work but together create an avenue for the elemental power of need that is inherent in any deeply meaningful relationship. D/s is an arrangement using our natural instincts that serves the purpose of harnessing the power of both partners. Playing with the power and authority aspects in a relationship along the lines of commands given and obeyed brings people to an understanding of their natures and lets them find their good way to be together. Once a relationship is established then each person's normal powers of choice apply, none greater than the other. At least that's what it said on the back of the cereal box.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (9/1/2008 5:36:04 AM)
I know I am the submissive. But even as the follower I think I have a tremendous amount of power. Maybe because I have a strong presence. The power exchange and giving up my "power" Makes me feel a personal inner power. the waymy master loves and tends to me makes me feel my power. We all have some kind of power. Not having any means you are a nonentity and fade into the background. if this is not your persona than you have personal inner power that people are attracted to.

L8bloomer -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (9/1/2008 12:38:50 PM)
Of course the OP is correct - that is, if all submissives think the same way as a 22 year old male. [;)]

E2Sweet -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (9/1/2008 2:29:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tychtyp ...The imbalance doesn't lend itself to a “numbers card” that can be invoked in an argument, but rather exists as the relatively larger opportunity set the submissive has access to... Ahh, I think I see what you mean. The numbers card scenario I brought up was just the only practical method I could think of for a submissive to be able to actually use the concept that 'there are more male doms than fem subs' to her advantage within a realtionship. The advantage outside of a relationship is of course quite obvious and very real.

DesFIP -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (9/1/2008 7:28:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tychtyp DesFIP, now that's kind of silly to believe with 100% conviction. There are probably hundreds, thousands of people floating out there who, in other circumstances, could've made you happier. Everyone settles if they don't want to end up alone, and it's not a bad thing—just don't delude yourself with romantic foolishness bordering on “soul mate” crap. At your young age people fear being alone and settle for partners who do not meet their needs, not to mention they don't know themselves well enough to know their deeper needs. At my age, it takes an extraordinary amount of compatibility to be willing to get into a relationship. Being alone holds no terror for me. I was alone, and celibate, for over five years. Had I not met the first person in my half century of life who holds the same strict moral and ethical values as I do, as well as being compatible in a myriad of other ways, I would still be alone. Please note I said alone, not lonely. As far as defining success as being monetary, why on earth should I look for someone who has the same things I do? We don't need two big houses, or two vacation houses, or six personal vehicles. I have more than enough stuff of my own, no need to replicate it. What I sought was matching moral values, similar sex/kink drives, and an equal amount of self knowledge as well as a host of qualities I don't possess. I don't know about soul mates, I confine thoughts of my soul to my religious sphere not my romantic. BTW you're too young to be that cynical. Take time and heal from your romantic misalliances and then regain hope.

pompeii -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (9/1/2008 10:10:07 PM)
This whole power thing intrigues me, more now that I've read all the responses. I'm still forming my opinion, but, the power thing is, I think, what all women have by virtue of the fact we men want sex, and we want it so badly, we're willing to do things for it. For example, all a women has to do near me is hike her skirt up, and she immediately gets my attention over the perfectly good one next to her who doesn't bother. Now, if she leans over and her boobs fall out, then she moves to the front of the line for my attentions and favors. Of course, every one of the ten thousand guys behind me is acting the same so the competition is as fierce as a billion spermies heading toward that one sexy ova way up there in the love canal. Only one in a billion wins. Why? Not sure what makes him the winner. Fastest? Meanest? Biggest? Most persistent? Luckiest? Dunno. Same thing with Doms and their subs. Lots of us Doms. Not many willing subs (at least in numerical comparison). 100 to 1? 1000 to 1 perhaps? I'm not sure of the ratio, but, if you look at w4m ads on Craigslist in your particular locale, the m4w vastly outweigh them. And, if you slip in a BDSM keyword such as "submissive", while you'll cut down on the absolute number of hits, the "m4w Dominant" vastly outweigh the "w4m submissive" ads. Hell, you'll be lucky if you find one or two, at most, w4m who are submissive in your sub locale (such as the pragmatic search within your town and the surrounding towns). It's a wonder we Doms find a woman at all! I guess that does give 'em the power ... but, there is that lack of emotional involvement thing that complicates the equation. Dunno the right answer. I'm leaning toward what others wrote about the initial attraction is dominated by the female sub who can select from scores (if not scores of scores) of vying peacocks, while, we quality males (yes, I consider myself a quality male) can take pride in the fact that a sub would be lucky to have us, were we lucky enough to find one. Contradition of terms? I suppose so. I'm trying to figure this one out m'self. Pompeii

StrangerThan -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (9/2/2008 3:30:13 AM)
In reality, the submissive always has more power if you consider that submission is given, not taken. Your hypothesis ignores basic aspects of human nature where logic is rarely the reason why person x is with person y. Most people actually think and feel as opposed to simply playing the numbers. In fact, it reads more like an algorithm than anything even remotely tied to how relationships actually work. It also ignores the fact that bad people are bad people regardless of whether they're Dominant or submissive. For every middle aged, unsuccessful hillbilly dom out there, there's a submissive willing to plaster herself to you like an alien brain sucker at the first hello, or one who has enough bagage to sink another Titanic. I don't have a problem with any of the above being who they are. I just navigate around both in the same way you'd walk through a minefield - gingerly and practicing a discrete avoidance. Then again, players play - which is how this hypothesis comes across, as one from someone who simply plays and either doesn't want a relationship or doesn't know what to do with one once it's had. Shrug.

Dnomyar -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (9/2/2008 5:09:40 AM)
I disagree that a submissive has any power over me. If so I would be the submissive. That is why they are submissives not Dom/Dommes. They have no powers or gifts. They are either compitable with you or not.

RCdc -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (9/2/2008 5:18:17 AM)
All I can see by your scenario is a immature and insecure relationship held by immature and insecure people. the.dark.

CelticPrince -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (9/2/2008 5:48:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tychtyp Submissive females have incredible leverage over their male masters due to the enormous glut of male dominants. If a sub chooses to, she could easily switch out her current master for someone better (i.e., more attractive, smarter, wiser, richer, etc.)--yet some subs don't seem to realize this. My hypothesis is that the nature of dom/sub relationships is psychologically advantageous to the dom to the point where a cunning dom can basically make his place impregnable, regardless of his actual merits. So you see perverse outcomes like a far more intelligent sub convinced that her master has so much to teach her, when to the outside world he's really just another unsuccessful, middle-aged hillbilly. disagree! CP Agree, disagree, refinements?

Aibo -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (9/2/2008 5:53:23 AM)
Leatherist got it right, the dynamic of a real relationship is really special, I managed for 12 years in one realtionship where we actually were'nt a good match in any other way than the erotic interest. Still worked, so to those who look for the 'perfect match' i'd say - dont, second best could be wonderful too. As for the question of this thread, I do say that the sub can have quite some power and be in control at times. But not that the submissive have the upper hand so much that you would say 'more'.

Lynnxz -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (9/2/2008 5:54:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tychtyp Submissive females have incredible leverage over their male masters due to the enormous glut of male dominants. If a sub chooses to, she could easily switch out her current master for someone better (i.e., more attractive, smarter, wiser, richer, etc.)--yet some subs don't seem to realize this. As a female I have the advantage of having a bigger pot to choose from. However, once I'm in a relationship, I don't play silly little games- threatening to 'switch out my current master' for someone more attractive. Actually, I'm getting pretty good at this- 'Only gets in a relationship with people that I'm compatible with in the first place" thing. I'm not going to run after the first man I see, and then cling to him until I find something better. I'm quite stable enough emotionally to screw around on my own until I find someone I enjoy.

JewAndCelt -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (9/2/2008 11:41:16 AM)
'Power' is an illusion. Anyone can be controlled only to the extent they allow themselves to be controlled. In life, there are three choices - to decide to do a thing, to decide not to do a thing, and to simply not decide.

leadership527 -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (9/2/2008 11:59:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: StrangerThan For every middle aged, unsuccessful hillbilly dom out there, there's a submissive willing to plaster herself to you like an alien brain sucker at the first hello, or one who has enough bagage to sink another Titanic. I don't have a problem with any of the above being who they are. I just navigate around both in the same way you'd walk through a minefield - gingerly and practicing a discrete avoidance. snorts coffee This post is made this entire thread officially "worth the price of admission" in my book laughs And CelticPrince.. perfect!

Daes -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (9/2/2008 1:03:08 PM)
Interesting thread, will have to read through it later.

christine1 -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (9/2/2008 5:12:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tychtyp Submissive females have incredible leverage over their male masters due to the enormous glut of male dominants. If a sub chooses to, she could easily switch out her current master for someone better (i.e., more attractive, smarter, wiser, richer, etc.)--yet some subs don't seem to realize this. My hypothesis is that the nature of dom/sub relationships is psychologically advantageous to the dom to the point where a cunning dom can basically make his place impregnable, regardless of his actual merits. So you see perverse outcomes like a far more intelligent sub convinced that her master has so much to teach her, when to the outside world he's really just another unsuccessful, middle-aged hillbilly. Agree, disagree, refinements? why do you think that because some subs aren't switching their partners out for "better" (your words, not mine) doms, that it's because they dont' realize that they can? to some of us it's not important if a partner is better than another partner choice in any area. a good relationship works on the "fit", (my words, not yours). if it's a good fit, who the hell cares if the world thinks of me or him as a hillbilly? in my world, the overalls and pork rinds aren't the important things at the end of the day.

roughleather -> RE: Sub females have more power than their male masters (9/2/2008 9:06:59 PM)
The "enormous glut of male dominants" is an online thing. Go to one of the major, upscale kinky events, like the Rubber Ball in London, the SF or LA fetish balls, or even SF's weekly Bondage a Go Go, and you'll find a roughly equal number of men and women. Even after subtracting the trannies.

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