RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (Full Version)

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Thadius -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 5:34:47 PM)

I have read the NY Times before.  My comment was on the merits and the way it was presented.  You know sort of like refering to a doctor as Mr.  Or referring to a married woman as Ms.  They are consistant in their use of Mr., I give them that, at least in this article.

Notice the way she is introduced compared to every other person.  It is not Governor Sarah Palin, like the do the Senator Joe Lieberman and others...  Sorry that I notice little slights, and again there is not a single quote stating that the premise of the story is fact, it is all based on conventional wisdom and third hand secret sources. 

My opinion is still the same as it was the first and second times I have read the article, and the same as my original comments.




rulemylife -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 5:43:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

God, I love the smell of conservative back-pedaling!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

????
Nobody's backpedaling.  After all, it's the Democrats who keep wanting to run Palin down because she's a woman.



I haven't seen anything here denouncing her for being a woman.  What I have seen is certain people, who shall remain nameless, touting her supposed credentials after months of claiming Obama doesn't have enough experience.  Priceless!!  Who said politics isn't amusing?




Thadius -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 5:47:54 PM)

So you missed the droves of comments about the only reason she is on the ticket is because she is a woman? 

You seem to keep missing the difference between Palin and Obama... One is running for the top seat, the other is running for the back seat.  I know it can be confusing.

Hope that helps.




celticlord2112 -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 5:50:44 PM)

quote:

touting her supposed credentials after months of claiming Obama doesn't have enough experience.

I going to go out on a limb and guess you missed the laundry lists of the myriad ways Palin has more experience than Obama, and more relevant experience than Obama.




rulemylife -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 6:02:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

So you missed the droves of comments about the only reason she is on the ticket is because she is a woman? 

You seem to keep missing the difference between Palin and Obama... One is running for the top seat, the other is running for the back seat.  I know it can be confusing.

Hope that helps.


No, I don't think you can look at it that way.  How many times, even in recent history, has the back-seat candidate had to assume the lead role?

The only thing I'm confused about is why inexperience seems no longer to be the issue now that your own candidate has picked someone vastly less experienced?  I've always said my biggest reservation about Obama was his inexperience, yet you want to claim the same on one hand about him, while on the other claiming it doesn't matter about her.

As far as your first point, the criticism is that McCain picked her simply because she is a woman, not that as a woman she cannot do the job.  




celticlord2112 -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 6:06:17 PM)

quote:

How many times, even in recent history, has the back-seat candidate had to assume the lead role?

In the past 40 years?  Once. 
In the past 50 years?  Twice.
In the past 70 years?  Three times.




slvemike4u -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 6:12:04 PM)

And what does this prove CL,to my mind it proves it is entirely in the realm of possibility that she could turn out to be Pres.Palin.




rulemylife -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 6:15:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

touting her supposed credentials after months of claiming Obama doesn't have enough experience.

I going to go out on a limb and guess you missed the laundry lists of the myriad ways Palin has more experience than Obama, and more relevant experience than Obama.



No, you can come back down from that limb (wouldn't want you to fall). 

The "myriad ways" were a tortured stretch to try to save face when you know her candidacy is a joke.  Trying to claim she has more "relevant" experience is beneath you. 




Thadius -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 6:16:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

So you missed the droves of comments about the only reason she is on the ticket is because she is a woman? 

You seem to keep missing the difference between Palin and Obama... One is running for the top seat, the other is running for the back seat.  I know it can be confusing.

Hope that helps.


No, I don't think you can look at it that way.  How many times, even in recent history, has the back-seat candidate had to assume the lead role?

The only thing I'm confused about is why inexperience seems no longer to be the issue now that your own candidate has picked someone vastly less experienced?  I've always said my biggest reservation about Obama was his inexperience, yet you want to claim the same on one hand about him, while on the other claiming it doesn't matter about her.

As far as your first point, the criticism is that McCain picked her simply because she is a woman, not that as a woman she cannot do the job.  


Who said experience is not an issue?  Oh and you made a mistake, she has actually held elected office for 13 years, which from my calculations is far from vastly less experienced.  Not to mention that the experience she does have, can be applied to the job she is applying for. 

Let's entertain your theory about the likelyhood of her having to take over, are we thinking it is going to happen day 1 or day 60 or day 600? It is mere speculation, and doesn't allow for the fact that she is going to be gaining even more experience as the VP.  The point is the man at the top of the ticket is ready to take the job, as even the vp nominee and major rival on the other ticket have already stated.  Even they have questioned whether the top of their own ticket is full of hot air.  I think the comparison is quite relevant, and doesn't change the fact that the Dem ticket is built upside down.

Speaking of history, can you name a ticket that has won the presidency without a gov on it?




Thadius -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 6:19:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

touting her supposed credentials after months of claiming Obama doesn't have enough experience.

I going to go out on a limb and guess you missed the laundry lists of the myriad ways Palin has more experience than Obama, and more relevant experience than Obama.



No, you can come back down from that limb (wouldn't want you to fall). 

The "myriad ways" were a tortured stretch to try to save face when you know her candidacy is a joke.  Trying to claim she has more "relevant" experience is beneath you. 


And your attempts to discredit actual achievements is a joke.  How is running a government, being commander in chief of an armed force, and fighting corruption in one's own party not relevant to taking the job of VP?





slvemike4u -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 6:21:52 PM)

Gentleman,are you going to try to tell us the thought of President Palin,the late gov.of Alaska is not a scary thought.It is irresponsible to put her in that position.....




rulemylife -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 6:26:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: celticlord2112

quote:

How many times, even in recent history, has the back-seat candidate had to assume the lead role?

In the past 40 years?  Once. 
In the past 50 years?  Twice.
In the past 70 years?  Three times.



Seven elected Presidents going back to, and including JFK.  Two Vice-Presidents who assumed office.  That's nearly 29%.  A pretty good chance, don't you think?

Got to love statistics huh?  All in how you use the numbers.




rulemylife -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 6:40:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

So you missed the droves of comments about the only reason she is on the ticket is because she is a woman? 

You seem to keep missing the difference between Palin and Obama... One is running for the top seat, the other is running for the back seat.  I know it can be confusing.

Hope that helps.


No, I don't think you can look at it that way.  How many times, even in recent history, has the back-seat candidate had to assume the lead role?

The only thing I'm confused about is why inexperience seems no longer to be the issue now that your own candidate has picked someone vastly less experienced?  I've always said my biggest reservation about Obama was his inexperience, yet you want to claim the same on one hand about him, while on the other claiming it doesn't matter about her.

As far as your first point, the criticism is that McCain picked her simply because she is a woman, not that as a woman she cannot do the job.  


Who said experience is not an issue?  Oh and you made a mistake, she has actually held elected office for 13 years, which from my calculations is far from vastly less experienced.  Not to mention that the experience she does have, can be applied to the job she is applying for. 

Let's entertain your theory about the likelyhood of her having to take over, are we thinking it is going to happen day 1 or day 60 or day 600? It is mere speculation, and doesn't allow for the fact that she is going to be gaining even more experience as the VP.  The point is the man at the top of the ticket is ready to take the job, as even the vp nominee and major rival on the other ticket have already stated.  Even they have questioned whether the top of their own ticket is full of hot air.  I think the comparison is quite relevant, and doesn't change the fact that the Dem ticket is built upside down.

Speaking of history, can you name a ticket that has won the presidency without a gov on it?


The "experience" of being mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, which I believe has a population of a little over 6,000, can be applied to the Vice-Presidency of the United States?  OOOOOOOOOkay!

Let me ask you a question.  What is the main purpose of having a Vice-President?  Someone to go to state funerals and other events the President doesn't have time for?  Someone to garner votes the presidential candidate can't get on his own?

I think the original idea was to have someone who could step in for the President if need arose, not an apprenticeship where they are trained for the job.




Thadius -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 6:49:28 PM)

quote:


The "experience" of being mayor of Wasilla, Alaska, which I believe has a population of a little over 6,000, can be applied to the Vice-Presidency of the United States?  OOOOOOOOOkay!

Let me ask you a question?  What is the main purpose of having a Vice-President.  Someone to go to state funerals and other events the President doesn't have time for?  Someone to garner votes the presidential candidate can't get on his own. 

I think the original idea was to have someone who could step in for the President if need arose, not an apprenticeship where they are trained for the job.


That plus being GOVERNOR of Alaska, is alot more relevant experience than anybody on either ticket.  Does 140 working days as a Senator have any practical experience for being President?

Yep the 2 main jobs of the VP are to preside over the senate, and in the case of the president becoming unable to finish the term, the VP takes over.  Just think, if McCain does kick the bucket, all you got to do is whack Palin, and Pelosi gets to step in.  Think of the parties and celebrations. [8|]




rulemylife -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 6:55:24 PM)



And your attempts to discredit actual achievements is a joke.  How is running a government, being commander in chief of an armed force, and fighting corruption in one's own party not relevant to taking the job of VP?


[/quote]


You know, you're right.  I'm happy to give her due credit, when you explain how Obama's record disqualifies him for lack of experience when their records are not even comparable.  If being a small-town mayor and serving less than two years as a small-state governor count, then how can you discredit Obama's service in local and state politics of one of the largest cities in the country and a fairly populous state?  Not to mention he is a sitting Senator who at least has familiarity with national issues and politics. 




slvemike4u -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 7:00:02 PM)

Commander in chief of an armed force.Please tell me you are kidding with this point Thadius.Failing that cite one command decision to her credit.




dcnovice -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 7:03:59 PM)

quote:

And the young lady is going to "marry the father of the child"


I wonder if she got any choice in the matter.




bipolarber -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 7:08:06 PM)

Just an interesting bit, culled from the Sunday edition of The Arkansas Gazette, that one of the McCain staffers was quoted as saying that, "...because we wanted to get the nomination out the day after Obama's speech, they cut the vetting process short."

If true, god only knows what surprises may be lurking for this nation, and the republicans, re: VP Palin.




Thadius -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 7:12:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife



You know, you're right.  I'm happy to give her due credit, when you explain how Obama's record disqualifies him for lack of experience when their records are not even comparable.  If being a small-town mayor and serving less than two years as a small-state governor count, then how can you discredit Obama's service in local and state politics of one of the largest cities in the country and a fairly populous state?  Not to mention he is a sitting Senator who at least has familiarity with national issues and politics. 


Uhm I lived in that city and state, and know how he got elected.  Hell I have met the man and his backers, if I still lived there I would be willing to take you out for a beer and introduce ya to them.  I think I have a pretty good idea of who he is and how he got where he is in Illinois politics.  How many years has he been in the US Senate?  Remember how the DNC released JFK back into the swimming hole to grow a bit in '56 when he was mentioned as a VP nomination... yeah I know not related.

Though let's touch on national issues and foreign policy for just a moment.  I think we can all agree that Alaska is a pretty important state, when it comes to energy production.  Yes? She has dealt with energy issues first hand, and the taxes involved with dealing with those oil companies, not to mention the regulations involved. Next, I think we can all agree that Canada, Japan, and Russia are foreign countries.  As Gov of Alaska, she has had to negotiate with all 3 of them, fishing rights, use of waterways, etc... She has also dealt with Canada in terms of the pipelines and a new proposal for a $40 Billion natural gas pipeline.   Exactly, she has no practical experience for the job.  Oh and Alaska does have a National Guard, guess who is the Commander in Chief of it?





rulemylife -> RE: McCain wanted Lieberman as VP (9/1/2008 7:19:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife



You know, you're right.  I'm happy to give her due credit, when you explain how Obama's record disqualifies him for lack of experience when their records are not even comparable.  If being a small-town mayor and serving less than two years as a small-state governor count, then how can you discredit Obama's service in local and state politics of one of the largest cities in the country and a fairly populous state?  Not to mention he is a sitting Senator who at least has familiarity with national issues and politics. 


Uhm I lived in that city and state, and know how he got elected.  Hell I have met the man and his backers, if I still lived there I would be willing to take you out for a beer and introduce ya to them.  I think I have a pretty good idea of who he is and how he got where he is in Illinois politics.  How many years has he been in the US Senate?  Remember how the DNC released JFK back into the swimming hole to grow a bit in '56 when he was mentioned as a VP nomination... yeah I know not related.

Though let's touch on national issues and foreign policy for just a moment.  I think we can all agree that Alaska is a pretty important state, when it comes to energy production.  Yes? She has dealt with energy issues first hand, and the taxes involved with dealing with those oil companies, not to mention the regulations involved. Next, I think we can all agree that Canada, Japan, and Russia are foreign countries.  As Gov of Alaska, she has had to negotiate with all 3 of them, fishing rights, use of waterways, etc... She has also dealt with Canada in terms of the pipelines and a new proposal for a $40 Billion natural gas pipeline.   Exactly, she has no practical experience for the job.  Oh and Alaska does have a National Guard, guess who is the Commander in Chief of it?




Yeah, I did too.  Does living in Chicago make our opinions on Obama more valid?  Though I will take you up on the beer.  On second thought, maybe not, you're probably a Cubs fan.  




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