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RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. - 9/3/2008 5:40:34 AM

caitlyn

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Thank you for posting this Thadius. This gives us something of substance to discuss, beyond the agenda of mind readers that seem to know the inner working of Governor Palins's family.

That said, Governor Palin has it all wrong when she puts decision making concerning the education of children, in the hands of their parents. She is making the assumption that all parents are possibly a) good, b) better than the state, c) have their child's best interest in mind.

This is so far from the truth, so as to be almost laughable. I'm very fortunate to have wonderful foster parents that made good decisions concerning me. I would shudder to think what my lot in life would have been, if my real parents were making those decisions.

There is clearly a need to state control over education, as this clearly promotes the common good.

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RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. - 9/3/2008 6:11:43 AM

celticlord2112

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Read the wayback link....still nothing about forced conversion. Any other straws for grasping?

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RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. - 9/3/2008 6:20:05 AM

Sanity

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How do you know what was instilled into her daughter. How well do you know the young couple in question? What did either of them know about contraception. Were they using condoms at the time of conception, and did one break or slip off? Or did they know the risks, and choose to completely ignore them. Did they flat out make a conscience decision to have a baby together?

Unless you were in bed with them at the time she conceived I'd say you have to be at least somewhat ignorant of the facts of this case, and the idea of those of you on the left collectively poking your noses under their covers seems politically perverted and twisted and tyrannical to me. Has this couple consented to the left's prying into their affairs? Have you no decency?

Leave them alone.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Surely its not the fact that Palin is a woman that is the problem but the fact that she is a moralist and wants other people to behave in a way she is obviously incapable of instilling into her child. Not that I think that her daughter is immoral, I think it is Palin herself that set out the values she expects from other people and she has failed under her own criteria.

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RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. - 9/3/2008 6:42:32 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

How do you know what was instilled into her daughter. How well do you know the young couple in question? What did either of them know about contraception. Were they using condoms at the time of conception, and did one break or slip off? Or did they know the risks, and choose to completely ignore them. Did they flat out make a conscience decision to have a baby together?

Unless you were in bed with them at the time she conceived I'd say you have to be at least somewhat ignorant of the facts of this case, and the idea of those of you on the left collectively poking your noses under their covers seems politically perverted and twisted and tyrannical to me. Has this couple consented to the left's prying into their affairs? Have you no decency?

Leave them alone.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Surely its not the fact that Palin is a woman that is the problem but the fact that she is a moralist and wants other people to behave in a way she is obviously incapable of instilling into her child. Not that I think that her daughter is immoral, I think it is Palin herself that set out the values she expects from other people and she has failed under her own criteria.

They had sex before marriage, from what I have read of Palin, she is against that so she failed to instill her social conservative values into her daughter. Not that it surprises me nor do I blame her daughter, social conservative values are basically moralistic and moralizing always fails and always manages to prove the hypocracy of those proposing them..

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RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. - 9/3/2008 6:48:54 AM

Sanity

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You're "moralizing" right here, meatcleaver.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
They had sex before marriage, from what I have read of Palin, she is against that so she failed to instill her social conservative values into her daughter. Not that it surprises me nor do I blame her daughter, social conservative values are basically moralistic and moralizing always fails and always manages to prove the hypocracy of those proposing them..

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RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. - 9/3/2008 6:57:50 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

You're "moralizing" right here, meatcleaver.

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
They had sex before marriage, from what I have read of Palin, she is against that so she failed to instill her social conservative values into her daughter. Not that it surprises me nor do I blame her daughter, social conservative values are basically moralistic and moralizing always fails and always manages to prove the hypocracy of those proposing them..

No I'm not, I'm just pointing out that moralists always end up being hypocritical and that they should look in the mirror a little more often before pontificating to the rest of society.

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RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. - 9/3/2008 7:22:59 AM

Sanity

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And you're pontificating, too.

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RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. - 9/3/2008 9:42:52 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius
What is age appropriate sex ed for kindergarteners?

My parents and pre-school teacher started with "Where Did I Come From?" -- a pop-up picture book about conception and birth, when I was 3 and my brother was on the way... OH...yeah, and helping to breed rabbits, then, as I got a little older, dogs, chickens, and horses.

*shakes my head* Ignorance is -not- bliss.

Calla Firestorm

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RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. - 9/3/2008 11:17:16 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

And you're pontificating, too.

Pointing out the fact that moralizing people usually are found out to have less morals than the rest of us is not pontificating, it merely holding up a mirror to those that believe others should act like them. I don't want anyone to act like me, though some might enjoy life more if they did but that is for them, not for me to pontificate about the enjoyment of being amoral, whatever that is. On reflection, having read quite abit about Sarah Palin, I probably do have more of what she defines morals than she has herself.

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RE: The fundie agenda,now part of the debate. - 9/3/2008 5:20:34 PM

TreasureKY