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What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 4:53:28 AM

IrishMist

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Ok, someone, on one of the threads brought this up and it’s been on my mind now since I read it. ( I can’t remember the thread though, so if someone can pull it up for me, I would really be appreciative )

Any way ( and I am paraphrasing here because I can’t remember what exactly was said ), it was brought up in a discussion that the presidential candidates were being compared to past ‘GREAT’ presidents; and someone mentioned the question ‘what made them great?”

It’s got me thinking now…what exactly is the criteria for determining if a president is great? Or for that matter, what would be the criteria for determining if any person is ‘great?”

I have not looked in depth into this yet, but I am going to see if I can find something on it…I just thought I would throw this out there for all you wonderful people and see what you thought.

What, in your eyes, makes a person ‘great’? Or , what would be the determining criteria for a ‘great President?’

My daughter is even interested in this and spent some time last night doing some research on the subject. The brat refused to share her findings with me yet…said she was waiting till I did my own research so that she could ‘debate’ the issue with me. Darn female.

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 5:07:00 AM

RCdc

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Sentimentality and reminiscence.

the.dark.

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 5:21:34 AM

meatcleaver

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ditto

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 5:31:20 AM

celticlord2112

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quote:

What, in your eyes, makes a person ‘great’? Or , what would be the determining criteria for a ‘great President?’

Commitment/Dedication to an ideal or cause.
Courage -- willingness to take risks and make difficult choices
Integrity -- choosing to do what is right versus what is easy

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 6:37:01 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

Commitment/Dedication to an ideal or cause.
Courage -- willingness to take risks and make difficult choices
Integrity -- choosing to do what is right versus what is easy

Ok, this I can agree with...BUT...LOL yes, there is the inevitable but...

But

what makes one person 'greater' than another then?

I am killing myself with this but dayumit...it's driving me up the flippin wall now

quote:

Sentimentality and reminiscence.

Now this, I am trying to wrap my head around

and have not yet quite got there.

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 8:20:09 AM

sub4hire

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I don't know. I am yet to think of any of them as being great. Sure, some did a little better than others.
Yet, nobody really stood out. Not even Abraham Lincoln and surely not Kennedy for what he did.

What makes them great. A supporter going overboard to broadcast whatever they did.

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 8:36:41 AM

kdsub

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I think there were many great Presidents ...but extraordinary events did not happen on their watch. Any one of us here could be great if we were in a position to make a difference and stepped up to the challenge. Many of us have been heros.. but on a small scale that only affected few rather than many.

My bottom line is I don't think it takes a superior person to be great.. the average person can be too...but extraordinary circumstances are required.

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/3/2008 8:37:39 AM >

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 8:47:56 AM

IrishMist

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Extraordinary circumstances.

I am pretty much along the same line of thinking that you are, that it takes ordinary people who respond to extraordinary circumstances…with dedication, courage, and integrity ( to steal CL’s words ) to make them great in my eyes. Yet, at the same time, I keep thinking…why does it take such extreme circumstances for them to be considered ‘great’?

Such a simple question yet the answer eludes me.

I can go back through history and find the ones that are written about as being ‘great’, but, looking at their accomplishments ( and what history says makes them great ), I can’t see any greatness there. Or, I can’t find anything that makes their accomplishments any better than another’s.

Maybe I am thinking too much inside the box…

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 9:36:03 AM

UncleNasty

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I find the term "integrity" to cover an extremely broad range of qualities and characterisitcs.

For great people that greatness begins with integrity.

For great presidents it begins with personal integrity and must move to constitutional integrity. They swear an oath to protect and defend the constitution from enemies both domestic and foreign.

Uncle Nasty

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 9:39:31 AM

popeye1250

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What makes them "great?"
The passage of time.
Even Abraham Lincoln was hated by about 40% of the people in this country in his time.
Personally I don't think we've had any "great" presidents, just some who did what had to be done.
I think of a president as a "manager", a CEO.

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 9:40:17 AM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

Extraordinary circumstances.

I am pretty much along the same line of thinking that you are, that it takes ordinary people who respond to extraordinary circumstances…with dedication, courage, and integrity ( to steal CL’s words ) to make them great in my eyes. Yet, at the same time, I keep thinking…why does it take such extreme circumstances for them to be considered ‘great’?

Such a simple question yet the answer eludes me.

I can go back through history and find the ones that are written about as being ‘great’, but, looking at their accomplishments ( and what history says makes them great ), I can’t see any greatness there. Or, I can’t find anything that makes their accomplishments any better than another’s.

Maybe I am thinking too much inside the box…

You can only be judged great if your actions affect enough people to be remembered... The more lives you change the more you are remembered.

By the way great does not necessarily mean good...

Butch

< Message edited by kdsub -- 9/3/2008 9:41:01 AM >

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 9:50:12 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

What, in your eyes, makes a person ‘great’? Or , what would be the determining criteria for a ‘great President?’

To me, a 'great' president is one who faced the crises of the country with grace, dignity, intelligence, and integrity. I don't give a squat about his personal life -- but I do want to know that, when everything goes to hell in a handbasket, he's going to tell the truth about what's going on and make decisions based on what is truly best for the nation -- not what is best for his pocketbook.

A -very- great president would be able to maintain personal integrity as well -- not that he'd never make a mistake in his personal life, but instead of wallowing around and trying to hide it, he'd be honest with the people and say "Yes, I did make that mistake, and I'm doing what I can to repair any damage that I've done."

It's been a very long time since we've had someone in office who had any integrity at -all-. Great? Not in more than 20 years.

CFB

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 1:30:22 PM

Irishknight

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What makes someone great? ....... Hmmm...... Eating Frosted Flakes in the morning? Being able to give me a blowjob just because its Tuesday and I want one? Learning how to program a VCR?

"Try to be a good man. History will decide if you were great." I heard that quote on a movie once and I really liked it.

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 6:05:31 PM

OneMoreWaste

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Timing.

At the end of the day, greatness comes down to doing the right thing at the right time. Once the dust has settled everyone will just paint on whatever motivation appeals to them anyway.

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 6:18:23 PM

Jeffff

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Any of the great ones are timeless......... they did what they did., they were who they were, and they didn't give a shit if anyone thought they were great

Alexander The................

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 7:35:53 PM

blacksword404

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quote:

ORIGINAL: IrishMist

Ok, someone, on one of the threads brought this up and it’s been on my mind now since I read it. ( I can’t remember the thread though, so if someone can pull it up for me, I would really be appreciative )

Any way ( and I am paraphrasing here because I can’t remember what exactly was said ), it was brought up in a discussion that the presidential candidates were being compared to past ‘GREAT’ presidents; and someone mentioned the question ‘what made them great?”

It’s got me thinking now…what exactly is the criteria for determining if a president is great? Or for that matter, what would be the criteria for determining if any person is ‘great?”

I have not looked in depth into this yet, but I am going to see if I can find something on it…I just thought I would throw this out there for all you wonderful people and see what you thought.

What, in your eyes, makes a person ‘great’? Or , what would be the determining criteria for a ‘great President?’

My daughter is even interested in this and spent some time last night doing some research on the subject. The brat refused to share her findings with me yet…said she was waiting till I did my own research so that she could ‘debate’ the issue with me. Darn female.

A great president is a boring president. I like boring. To be that boring president means you have to have foresight. Have to be able to see problems from a distance before they even become a problem. Most just wait and then deal with it. But if you do your job well it will look like your not doing anything. Having issues to deal with make you look important and busy. But it's not the best way to handle problems. Proactive not reactive. Give me boring.

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 9:25:00 PM

Vendaval

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Hello Irish Mist,

I think that part of the definition for "greatness" is the willingness of a person to do what is right and necessary even at great personal cost.

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/3/2008 10:22:36 PM

Termyn8or

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We have great engineers, great artists, great builders, great scientists, great doctors, great chefs, great all kinds of things.

That doesn't make the people great. I am a great electronics troubleshooter. I am a great problem solver, but that does not make me a great Man. I doesn't make me great in any way because the word great in and of itself is a superlative, and used in that context, I don't think it fits.

Think about the other ways the word is used "This is a great party", "That was a great show". When used to describe a person, I believe it is misused. Alexander the Great ? No, it was Alexander of Macedon. He may have been a great commander, a great warrior, but nothing makes a person great.

Though not a Christian in any sense, one who came close to deserving of the "great" label was Joshua bar Joseph, more commonly known as Jesus Christ. He was indeed a great scholar, a great pacifist, a great mentor and a few other great things, but does that make he himself great ?

To actually think of someone as great is outside my mental vocabulary. I am a great moderator, a great problem solver, a great manipulator when need be, all of which makes me great in certain things. However when you look at me I am nothing but a regular guy. When I look at anyone, I don't care who they are, I am looking at a person.

To me the word great means great at something, it is that type of word. If I met Jesus tonight, I would probably offer him a beer. (if I have extra)

When you make the decision not to look down on those less endowed with whatever qualities you consider important, you then never look up at anyone either.

T

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/4/2008 5:19:04 AM

IrishMist

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I did a lot of thinking about this last night, after the youngin and I…ummm…argued lol…for a bit over our own ideas on it. Her ideas were almost two fold in that, like Termyn8or, she does not believe that a person can be great at all; it is only their actions that are great. BUT, she then went on to say that when a person takes a great idea and puts it into action without thought of gain, or what it may cost them personally; it turns around and makes the person themselves great.

I sat here and argued with her because, like others, I don’t think that the word great can be applied to any person. It’s used to often to describe just about anything that invokes awe, I guess is a good word. I was sprouting off historical references to her as my backing argument, stating that many of those mentioned in history as being Great, while carrying out wonderful ideas and putting them into action, were nothing more than lucky in their timing. That a person could have come along a year earlier or later and performed the same feat.

She busted my argument right out of the water. Just smiled at me and said at no time did she say that she was referring to men and women immortalized in history as great human beings. She argued that those who sought ‘fame and notoriety ‘ for their actions, whether voluntarily or involuntarily, could be not considered because the concept of gain negated them. She said that it was those who never sought public recognition for their actions, who never ‘complained’ of the cost to them personally, were great people . She mentioned a homeless man that she passes everyday on her way home from school. For two years she volunteered at the library, collecting food and clothing, and every day, this man would come in and donate something brand new…a blanket, a jacket, food. She stopped on the way home from school one day to talk to him about it and found out he was homeless and had been that way for some time. When she asked him why he kept giving things away if he was without a home, he told her that others had more need of such things. She thought this man a great man .

I have to admit, I see the logic in her arguments.

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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 9/4/2008 8:43:33 AM

Termyn8or

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Better keep an eye on that one Irish, she's dangerous. When someone gets me to rethink my position on something that really is a personal opinion, let's just say it doesn't happen too often. I can't disagree with her about the homeless guy.

Maybe what it is, is that there really are great people, but we have been looking in the wrong places. Maybe great people are less likely to be found on a Learjet or in an office, but rather behind a dumpster. (the skip to our UK friends)

You can tell her she did well. To get me to rethink something like this is rare. To prove me wrong on a factual matter has happened, and I do stand corrected on a few things, but she deserves a trophy for this.

T

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