Termyn8or
Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
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I don't really know quite how to put it. This is coming down to an "argument" about words, our agreement on their definition and proper usage.The English language is confuddling enough, and now we are talking about concepts. Irish, you and your ilk (I hope that isn't taken wrong, I did not use the term in a negative sense) have added perhaps a four or fifth dimension to this issue.
There are people who are revered, if not by many, by a few. There are people who deserve a great deal of recognition for the good they have done, so is greatness the quality of not seeking it ? Perhaps.
I can't attest to the 100% relevance of this, but as case in point about language. The other night I played Micheal Stanley Band's Midwest Midnight. It is only available live and it is the first song on the album. At the beginning the announcer says "Please welcome epic recording artist----" Did he mean epic or Epic, the record label ? Thruthfully I don't remember if MSB was with Epic at the time, but that is one of the many cases where the English language has failed us.
Are we talking about the language or the concept ? I know what I said before, and I know I said I was reconsidering my opinion, and I have reconsidered it and now I think I was right the first time. That only acts and demostrable abilities can be considered great and no matter what their magnitude, do not make the actor great. Not to say someone cannot be a great thesbian, but that describes their actions.
As I have stated before, the dictionary cannot give a really accurate description of a word, all the nuances and invokations of same. Even if it is a "great" dictionary :-). Now that I brought that up, do I mean that it is a great dictionary or that the content is great ? When referring to what is basically a book, perhaps finding the distinction there can lead us to the answer to the question de jure. I said perhaps, because I am not so sure that certain adjectives can be applied the same way to a person.
Is the homeless person who donates great ? We still don't really know. IMO he is to be respected, possibly even revered, but that is all descriptions of others' perceptions of him, it is actually not descriptive of the person.
This homeless guy, if he can afford to donate, probably gets a check. It could be an annuity, disability or retirement. For that he needs an address at which to recieve these benefits and I am discarding any thoughts of whether he deserves them or not. Most likely, he has decided not to impose on someone by living with them, and that is by choice because if he gets mail there it would be very hard to keep him out.
That is respectable, and his actions are selfless, generous and kind. Perhaps his actions are great.
So the question becomes, do someone's actions, no matter how divine make them great ? Are people who found cures to nasty diseases thoughout the years great, or is it their actions or accomplishments that are great ? Some people will find the discussion of these matters akin to splitting hairs, but apparently we are now on the hair splitting committee. It goes much deeper than that for some, and I am not so sure that language is the only issue involved.
Language is the only tool with which we can communicate with one another, therefore the discussion of this is a worthy endevor. Words = concepts.
Was Jesus great, or was his philosophy great ? He was a great healer, teacher, spiritual leader and a few other things, but in the end the question is, do his actions define him as great ? Or is it the actions that are great ?
In my time I have done some bad things, but I have also done some good things, some very good things. There have been times when I have literally gotten someone's ass out of the sling so to speak. I don't accept praise well, I don't want it. I can sort of feel when people want to imbue some sort of greatness on me after doing them a big favor. I don't like it and usually respond with something like "Don't be thinking I am Jesus Christ or something, I was just in the right place at the right time". That is to say that what I did was what I would expect any decent human being to do.
Now I have found a can of worms within this can of worms. Is a Man a decent Man or is it his actions and words that are decent ? This is pretty much the same subject, but in a slightly different frame of reference.
And now comes to mind the other side. I used to drink way too much and after a DUI they tried to make me go to AA meetings, which is the stupidest thing in the world. AA is for people who are addicted and want help, not for the person I was back then.
In an AA meeting they want you to stand up and say "I am Jeff and I am an alcoholic". I would never say it. I would be willing to say "I am Jeff and I am alcoholic" but I refused the label.
When friends introduce me to new people they might say "Yeah, Terminator is cool", but in reality they can only be describing my words and actions, as they have nothing else to go on. What can they know about my inner thoughts and feelings (if any) and really, if they could read my mind and find out everything, would my inner self, no matter how good at the core, make me great ?
Some friends of mine, theParents of Gina and John. They made sacrifices, lived frugally, went out rarely and took very few vacations. They did this to put the kids in a good school and the tuition was more than the average car payment. As a result they are doing well. Are they great people, or should they be referred to as great Parents ?
To get even wilder on the subject let's suppose I found some ancient book on witchcraft (that could be the sixth through tenth books of Moses BTW which most people never had a hint that existed) and I fixed most of the world's problems. Say I punished all the tyrants of the world, restored peace, real peace, ended famine and poverty. What if I, possesed of some super intellect and powers, literally solved most of the world's problems.
At that point I ask, would it be me that is great, or would it be my abilities and what I did with them ?
That, I believe, is the real question.
The homeless guy who donates, when he needs something I really hope that someone steps up and "pays forward". He has won the respect of those who know what he has done, and if given the chance I would gladly pay forward to such a person. The question is, is he great ?
I believe the deeds you do are generally rated by intent, not scale. The word great, used in this context is irreplaceable. Honorable, good, and who knows what else just don't work. If a Man can be considered great, as much as I hate to mention it here, you would have to consider Hitler great. Before the war, what he did for that country was astounding. Germany's economy still benefits from his actions, as much as some like to be ignorant of that fact. As another poster said, great does not necessarily mean good.
Going back to intent doesn't work either, Hitler really thought he was doing good, in fact God's will, not unlike Bush.
It is amazing how the subject of just one word can become so complex.
I will stop now because I see the little square in the scroll bar to the right is getting squished. Suffice it to say, this is not a can of worms, it seems to be a 55 gallon drum.
Put that youngun on the keyboard if she is eighteen, I would be very interested in a response.
T
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RE: What makes a person GREAT? - 
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