RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008

RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (Full Version)

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MrRodgers -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 5:07:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bestbabync Philosophy- i have several friends that have small businesses and they worry alot about the increase in taxes that Obama proposes, which one friend told me could equal 56%! That and the higher minimum wage will put him out of business! Also he mentioned the death tax increase from 15% to 45%! oh...things will get worse before they get better! Obama seeks to raise the top personal rate 2% for those reporting $250,000 income and up. I do not know of any targeted tax increase on small businesses. This does mean that ANY income less than that...will NOT have ANY increase in their federal tax liability. The states are all over the place so are not included here. The so-called death tax is a tax that for political purposes only...has been renamed. This tax is actually an INCOME tax on the heirs. The first $2 million are exempt as of 2007, 2009 it goes to $3.5 million and I think $10 million in 2010. Also, there are many exemptions and methods via paper to eliminate or reduce much from taxation, some of which are various irrevocable trusts. Some are funds that sends out checks similar to an anuity.

rulemylife -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 5:20:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slotlover The minimum wage unfortunately is one of those very popular but incredibly stupid ideas that most people will never understand because they have never learned the basics of economic principles. Just think it through: If mandating a minimum wage for any labor is a good thing, why stop at $7.50 or even $20 an hour? Why not mandate $100 an hour? What effects would that have? I see. So, undoubtedly by holding a Ph.D in economics, you can enlighten the ignorant masses on your economic theories and set everyone straight.

Thadius -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 5:26:52 PM)
When did those making above 250k add up to 5% of the populace? See this is where the question about tax breaks to 95% of working families has me confused. Seeing as US census numbers only go up to $300k+ and IRS figures only show $1M + in data provided, it is speculation to guess where that number would fall, and how many folks would or would not be affected by a tax increase. Do a search for L-curve. Obama wants to keep the exemption where it is, and raise the rate. McCain has suggested raising the exemption to 5Million and lowering the rate. This is a completely unfair tax as it double dips, every year taxes are paid on the interest earned, and income earned by the person building their estate. Even if you argue that the tax is a good thing, please explain to me where it is good policy to allow a person to leave a 2M estate with no taxes due, yet a person that has a 3.5M estate is basicly leaving their heirs 1.9M. Just a humble opinion.

Thadius -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 5:32:27 PM)
quote: Obama seeks to raise the top personal rate 2% for those reporting $250,000 income and up Uhmm... You must have missed the part of the top rate going to 39.6% and moving up the medicaid rate by 2.9% and also the social security increase of 2-4 points... for that top rate. Plus the moving of what income is not exempt from those 2 taxes. Not much of an increase at all......[8\|]

philosophy -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 5:33:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius However, if a company and its stockholders feel like paying a CEO that ammount, then who am I to argue against it? ...if that same company is also fighting against things like a miniscule pay rise for their lowest paid employees, or trying to get health and safety rules relaxed then i have no problem at all arguing against it. Don't get me wrong, there will always be a gap between the richest and poorest members of a society. However there comes a point where that gap is obscene, and arguably dangerous. Make that gap big enough, and the poorest end up with nothing to lose.......

rulemylife -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 5:35:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bestbabync Philosophy- i have several friends that have small businesses and they worry alot about the increase in taxes that Obama proposes, which one friend told me could equal 56%! That and the higher minimum wage will put him out of business! Also he mentioned the death tax increase from 15% to 45%! oh...things will get worse before they get better! Maybe it's time you do some research instead of relying on what you hear. Might help change your mind. The least it will do is help you get your facts straight.

rulemylife -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 5:43:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bestbabync obviously you never met a war veteran! I know far more about war and veterans than you can imagine in your worst fucking nightmares, so I would appreciate if you would stick to addressing my points, not making assumptions about things you know nothing of.

Roselaure -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 5:45:11 PM)
I don't think at this point that anyone can state from any reasonable position that either candidate can't win. A relative small number of currently undecided voters will decide this election. And they don't make decisions based on logic, they do it on a gut feeling at the last minute. It's either man's race, but what a ride it's gonna be!

bestbabync -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 5:48:37 PM)
so you guys are saying that Obama raising taxes on the Americans that make $250,000 or more would not affect our econonmy? i disagree since these Americans are the majority of the small business owners that employ most of the working class of this country. maybe my numbers/figures are wrong.

Thadius -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 5:50:25 PM)
I agree that his proposals are going to have a negative impact on investment and creation of jobs, plus stagnate the economy.

bestbabync -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 5:51:46 PM)
my grandfather and my uncle both served this country during wartime. i would never disrespect or belittle ANY veteran's service to this country. i was simply wondering why you would.

rulemylife -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 5:55:14 PM)
Obama wants to keep the exemption where it is, and raise the rate. McCain has suggested raising the exemption to 5Million and lowering the rate. This is a completely unfair tax as it double dips, every year taxes are paid on the interest earned, and income earned by the person building their estate. Even if you argue that the tax is a good thing, please explain to me where it is good policy to allow a person to leave a 2M estate with no taxes due, yet a person that has a 3.5M estate is basicly leaving their heirs 1.9M. Just a humble opinion. [/quote] Since when is any tax fair? The question is, if you eliminate the estate tax, or even follow McCain's proposal, where do you make up the lost tax revenue?

thornhappy -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 6:02:06 PM)
I always found it interesting that Bill Gates is against lowering estate taxes.

rulemylife -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 6:04:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bestbabync my grandfather and my uncle both served this country during wartime. i would never disrespect or belittle ANY veteran's service to this country. i was simply wondering why you would. I'm not. As I've said, there is a difference in being proud of your service and using it to deflect criticism, which McCain and his staff have recently stooped to. I am a Democrat but I vote who I think the best candidate is. I would have voted for him had he won the nomination over Bush. The John McCain of today I can't even believe is the same person.

Thadius -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 6:06:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Since when is any tax fair? The question is, if you eliminate the estate tax, or even follow McCain's proposal, where do you make up the lost tax revenue? How about the option of cutting spending? When did the concept get flipped that the money belongs to Congress and not to you and me? Edited to fix the quotes... as some folks delete one too many sets of tags.

rulemylife -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 6:11:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: thornhappy I always found it interesting that Bill Gates is against lowering estate taxes. Warren Buffet too. Tellingly, Sam Walton's heirs have spent millions lobbying for their elimination. Even though the Wal-Mart fortune has kept them on Forbes top ten wealthiest list for years. Greed is an amazing thing.

bestbabync -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 6:13:12 PM)
i believe that the American people are worried about our future in this war. having a leader that has actually fought in a war is important to alot of people including me! i want our troops home now, but i want them home safe and victorious if that is possible. i respect McCain for his service in Vietnam and i respect our troops fighting in iraq, even though i truly believe we should not have put our troops in harms way then or now!

Musicmystery -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 6:19:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 As I've said before the Dems are going to be kicking themselves in November for not nominating Hillary. People aren't going to vote for a Global Socialist who wants to give their money away to foreign countries. Yeah. Much better to just vote to keep sending billions to Iraq.

bestbabync -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 6:23:57 PM)
so we vote Democrat? has the Democratic congress that we voted in 2 years ago ended the war & the wasteful spending? they made all those promises just to get elected. then they voted for the surge!

bestbabync -> RE: Why Obama cannot win in 2008 (9/4/2008 6:26:21 PM)
hmmmmm? osama bin laden obama biden that rhymes!!!

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