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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 7:05:05 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
I didn't hear a single comment during the entire Democratic primary about how she should be a "better mother" and why she didn't she spend more time with Chelsa, or other family related things, while about all we have heard about Palin are personal attacks on her abilities and fitness to be a mother, and "how the hell can she be in politics and be a good mother at the same time?".

Good enough for ya, honey?

Firm (the conservative "sexist")




Chelsea Clinton is about thirty years old while Palin's baby is 5 months old.  Kinda different lifestages, one might say...


I've heard more about Palin's family life in the last week, than I heard for the entire election cycle, and 8 years of Clinton's presidency ... when Cheslea wasn't 30.

Firm


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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 7:13:27 AM   
Sanity


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It's comedy central, why comment on comedy. He snipped some video clips and played them out of context in order to make a joke video. Here's a heads up for you, because you don't seem to be aware - pros like John Stewart and his staff can make public people seem to say almost anything when they splice  little snippets of video which have been taken out of context like that.

I've got a question for you, or for anyone who might know. Does he just do that to Conservatives, or does he dothat to Liberals too?









< Message edited by Sanity -- 9/5/2008 7:45:18 AM >

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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 7:18:21 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: L8bloomer

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
1. The Palin daughter's pregnancy and the Spears pregnancies are two different issues, in two different environments, and I find the differences in comments and reactions valid.


Are you kidding? Both are under the age of 18. Both had premarital sex that resulted in an unplanned pregnancy. How are they different issues?



As I said in my post, and as you quoted, I said "two different environments" and issues.

The fact is that premarital sex and "too young pregnancy" happen, and in our society we tend to see it as better that a woman has both a mate, and a depth of experience (age) which will provide the best available environment for raising the child.

But kids tend to have sex. Our goal as good parents is generally defined as setting up a social environment and teaching our children values that tend to lead to what we find to be socially and personally advantageous for our children, and their decisions about sex.

The lifestyle and guidance of the Spears mother was not (according to ORiley - I'm not willing to make a judgment) conducive to her underage daughter making the correct choices. She got pregnant.

Palin's lifestyle and guidance was conducive to her daughter making the correct choices (although it partially failed in this instance). Her lifestyle and guidance, however, did the next best thing to help ameliorate the failure.

In other words, Spears mother set her up for failure, while Palin's mother did her best to prevent the failure.

Firm

< Message edited by FirmhandKY -- 9/5/2008 8:11:26 AM >

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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 7:25:30 AM   
gina0055


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Status: offline 		What, you didn't see the Lion King/Obama clip he did?  Google it - it will come up.
Yes, he does it to both sides, this is the one that comes immediately to mind.

And these 'snippets of conversation' are not taken out of context.  In the internet age we all have to be careful of what we say and do and post because we never know who is paying attention, especially in politics.   

And you gotta admit, Stewart is damn funny.

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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 7:42:23 AM   
Sanity


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quote:

And these 'snippets of conversation' are not taken out of context.


yes they are, by definition they are. He plays a tiny snippet then CUT. Tiny snippet, then CUT.

That's all they are, out-of-context snippets, creatively spliced together.


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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 7:48:09 AM   
RealityLicks


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY

I've heard more about Palin's family life in the last week, than I heard for the entire election cycle, and 8 years of Clinton's presidency ... when Cheslea wasn't 30.



As per usual, I find I don't agree with your take on things, Firm but kudos for having the courtesy to respond.

Anyway - Palin's arch-conservative stance is what opens her up to certain criticisms, that and her novelty.  I don't seem to remember Bill Clinton likening himself to a "hockey mum" during his term at the White House, so please enlighten me.

She's not a hockey mum, she's a hard-bitten career politician and should be able to take it.

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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 7:48:40 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Typically, that's how television humour works: the cut makes the timing. And as you know, timing matters a lot, in humour.

SNIP!

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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 7:57:05 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY


I've heard more about Palin's family life in the last week, than I heard for the entire election cycle, and 8 years of Clinton's presidency ... when Cheslea wasn't 30.

Firm



This is always going to be the case when someone is a moralizer and is telling other people how they should behave and think, especially when they don't live up to their own expectations of other people.

She should learn to walk the walk before she talks the talk and then no one will critize her.

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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 7:59:26 AM   
RealityLicks


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
premartial sex


Hm.  That's given me an idea...

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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 8:05:19 AM   
kittinSol


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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 8:09:45 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

As per usual, I find I don't agree with your take on things, Firm but kudos for having the courtesy to respond.

Thank you, RL. When I have the time, I enjoy a good debate.


quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

Anyway - Palin's arch-conservative stance is what opens her up to certain criticisms, that and her novelty.  I don't seem to remember Bill Clinton likening himself to a "hockey mum" during his term at the White House, so please enlighten me.

The OP was about hypocrisy of the right. I simply pointed out that not all the hypocrisy was on the right (and even agreed that there was indeed some hypocrisy in some of the linked comments).

For Democrats, who have spent the last few months talking about a woman breaking the glass ceiling, and about how important it is to treat a woman as an individual, and not simply as a "lesser being" or as a stereotypical role of some kind ... to then turn around and use all of those same stereotypes ... is hypocritical, no matter what the provocation and situation.

What you are attempting to do is justify this hypocrisy, and excuse it.


quote:

ORIGINAL: RealityLicks

She's not a hockey mum, she's a hard-bitten career politician and should be able to take it.

I think she can take it quite well.

Firm

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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 10:14:14 AM   
KatyLied


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quote:

1. The Palin daughter's pregnancy and the Spears pregnancies are two different issues, in two different environments, and I find the differences in comments and reactions valid.


You are joking, right?
The only difference is one family is in entertainment, the other in politics, that's a small difference, those two fields are closely related, especially for the next 2 months.


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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 10:18:37 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

quote:

1. The Palin daughter's pregnancy and the Spears pregnancies are two different issues, in two different environments, and I find the differences in comments and reactions valid.


You are joking, right?
The only difference is one family is in entertainment, the other in politics, that's a small difference, those two fields are closely related, especially for the next 2 months.



As far as I can reason it, the Palin daughter is not being presented as a role model, or used to sell product to the tween female demographic...  So there is a huge difference.



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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 10:20:19 AM   
sirsholly


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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 10:36:05 AM   
corysub


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Status: offline 		The world is going to hell in a handbasket, and peoples lives consist of demeaning comments on the parents of two teenagers who either did not practice safe sex, or didn't know how to use a condom.  We are talking about
young people still a few years away from the maturity (hopefully) of adulthood.

I don't recall the "funny" banter on Colbert or the other comic about John Edwards, a "full grown" male, lawyer,
and presidential candidate who cheated in Beverly Hills while his wife was enduring the pangs of cancer.  What
a man!  Where was Colbert, Stewart, Matthew, Ubarman on this story?  It had to be broken by a tabloid, but
they are all over a seventeen year old kid...Coonan O'brian also tried last night and the"joke" fell flat.  Children
should be out of bounds for both parties, for adult discussions.

Clinton was getting BJ's in the Oval Office and we were told to "hush"...it was a private matter!  Trent Lott said
a nice thing about an old man at a birthday party who was no more KKK than the Senior Senator from Virginia.
Yet..Lott war beaten up in the lib media and on the Hill and was made to resign his position.  People are tired of
this "double liberal standard"... It gives republicans hope that this November could really be historic as the Republican Party comes back like Phoenix from the ashes...

By the way...another thread bragged about the leadership in the polls that Obama had..it's now down to even up!
Could it be that picking on a 17 year old is part of this backlash...

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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 10:41:21 AM   
DomKen


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Status: offline 		So let me get this straight, O'Reilly was right to call Spears' parents pinheads not because they didn't provide an upbringing that prevented her from getting pregnant but because they also allowed her to have a career entertaining people while Bristol's parents should receive privacy and respect not because they didn't provide an upbringing that prevented her from getting pregnant but because she hasn't tried to sell anything? WTF!

As to the role model thing, Sarah Palin definitely presented herself as a parental role model when first introduced and since with all the talk about her kids and being a 'hockey mom.' So shouldn't her failings as a parent be just as much of a cause for disdain as the parental failings of someone who wrote a book on parenting? Or is it only true that hypocritical role models only deserve disdain when they are in disagreement with you on some other issue?

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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 10:56:16 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		First, if Britney and her sis have been promoted as any kind of role model, your grievance should lie with the Disney corporation, who I think, employed them and used their image to sell their products; secondly, Palin's daugher is being used to sell a political message and to buy off an election, so you should take your grievance with the executive branch of the GOP.

Which one's worse? They're both pretty gross, but I reckon the second case is by far the stinkiest.

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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 10:58:32 AM   
Thadius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

First, if Britney and her sis have been promoted as any kind of role model, your grievance should lie with the Disney corporation, who I think, employed them and used their image to sell their products; secondly, Palin's daugher is being used to sell a political message and to buy off an election, so you should take your grievance with the executive branch of the GOP.

Which one's worse? They're both pretty gross, but I reckon the second case is by far the stinkiest.


Who brought up the pregnancy of the daughter for political gains again?  Revisionist history around here, seems to be the norm.

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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 10:59:45 AM   
kittinSol


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Status: offline 		Oh please rofl. Not everyone is as naive as you'd like.

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RE: A funny look at hypocrisy - 9/5/2008 11:07:03 AM   
happypervert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

As far as I can reason it, the Palin daughter is not being presented as a role model, or used to sell product to the tween female demographic...  So there is a huge difference.


LOL! This is some of the most twisted reasoning I've seen -- it's like anyone would consider the Spears family as suitable role models, while the presidential or VP families are not looked up to as role models. It's ridiculous.

Ok, so maybe Spears markets crappy music to young girls, but I'd imagine that's about it now because I can't see any merchandiser wanting to pay money associate their products with them. But don't kid yourself that Palin won't market herself as a candidate by trotting out her adorable family at every opportunity, and I'd say marketing a candidate goes well beyond the teeny bopper demographic.



< Message edited by happypervert -- 9/5/2008 11:08:46 AM >

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