Grace and Dignity in Submission (Full Version)

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OttersSwim -> Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 9:51:24 AM)

Yesterday, my Lady and I were discussing the emotions of separation, drop, and anxiety.  She said to me, '' I want you to experience them all with grace and dignity."

That really struck home with me and got me thinking, so I wanted to ask how folks view this concept of "Grace and Dignity" as part of submission.

For me, my first thought was that it did not compute - I mean slaves and subs are not supposed to have or display dignity, right?   But upon further thought, I now believe that Grace and Dignity are a very important part of submission - it's a lot more than just surrendering.  It is responsibility to be comfortable in your skin  and to take what you are given for nourishment rather than detriment.

What I mean is integrating submission into your being so you are completely comfortable being who you are and from a point of reasoned consent be able to say "I am comfortable enough with myself that will let you do this to me, and I will work to channel your gift of dominance to positive benefit within myself, and hopefully reflect it back to you for your nourishment as well."

I am certain that integration of Grace and Dignity is required on the other side of the strapon too.  :P

I am totally new to all this, so I have read a bunch of profiles on the site trying to learn and that is where I really noticed the disparity of Grace and Dignity and integration.  A lot profiles are just full of bitterness, anger, and desire to -harm- or be harmed, or lack of proper thought "Uh...I want someone to dom me, and I will serve...thanks."  How nature says, "Do not touch." 

But there are other profiles, where the integration just sings through and you think "This is a person who has thought this through and they understand who and where they are."  There is a song by KT Tunstall called "Suddenly I See".  The lyrics capture this concept perfectly:
And everything around her is a silver pool of light
The people who surround her feel the benefit of it
It makes you calm
She holds you captivated in her palm
So I am wondering...am I on to something here?  How do you see it, or how has it expressed itself in your relationships to your Dominant(s)?

Thanks!  :)



colouredin -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 10:13:44 AM)

FIrstly why arent subs supposed to display dignity? Surely as a Dominant you would want to have a dignified submissive generally hell wouldnt anyone want their partner to have dignity, i dont think we see it like that enough you know partner but thats what it is.

Its not about a gift or any of that stuff and to be honest i dont see much of your post as relating to grace and dignity so I am going to respond to what you said. We are who we are for whatever reasons our pleasure, choices and desires are no less than anyone elses, I am not ashamed or what I am i dont think its a shameful thing (thats not to say I agree with myself 100% of the time but thats differant)

Differant people want differant things, there are of course many profiles that are sex based or physicality based or whatever, thats no less a choice than anything else its no less valid or whatever. Sure we can all be deep thinking about what we are but in reality we just are and thats it.



oceanwynds -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 10:24:51 AM)

Hello OttersSwim
Please bare with me in answering you post, am not sure i totally understand it. For me when leaving Sir to go back home, drop was horrible. i had to learn to be able to live in my own skin if i wanted to remain in this relationship. Grace helps a lot with how you go through the day, and i have applied it in my everyday life. i try to glide through the day in Sir's honor, since i am a reflection of His teachings. Do i succeed all the time?  NO, especially not in the beginning, but have learned with each drop that i can be strong and not go into a frenzy. i see myself in the eyes that Sir see's me and try to honor that.
Hope that helped:)
oceanwynds



CalifChick -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 10:25:47 AM)

I like to think I have grace and dignity more often than I don't.  There is a line from "Bat out of Hell" that someone told me once described me:  Wherever you are and wherever you go, there's always gonna be some light.

It's something I strive for, maybe not always achieve, but strive for.


Cali



OttersSwim -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 10:31:05 AM)

Thank you for the replies.  :)

I know, the post is a bit disjointed - I started thinking about what she said from the point of being separated from her, but then the thought moved further into the whole thought of submission as a whole - honestly, I am still processing what it means to me and how I integrate it. 

So that is really the intent of the post - I believe that everyone needs to be a wholly realized being and comfortable in their own skin.  Some of the profiles I read, I really questioned whether the person was feeding something positive in their life, or caught in something very dark and negative.  Others, really spoke to me because they felt like the people writing them really had integrated themselves.  I think that is important and I wanted to share my thoughts and get additional info.  :)



RCdc -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 10:34:04 AM)

Seeing as respect is such a buzz word in these circles, I am surprised that anyone might assume that a submissive cannot have and show dignity.
 
In the same breath you have to also remember, not everyone desires dignity nor grace.  Some people do not lack self esteem but desire to be used and lowered.  That itself is nourishment to some.  Just because they do not have grace nor dignity on their agenda, does not mean they do not understand themselves.
 
For some people it is important, for others, it is not.  Personally, I enjoy hitting space or even dropping in grace sometimes - it feels quite spiritual.  But other times, I am lowly and carnal, hitting it messily, sore, marked, touselled(sp?) and wet.
 
Depends on the mood - ultimately it is Darcy's decision.
 
the.dark.



Wheldrake -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 10:37:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

That really struck home with me and got me thinking, so I wanted to ask how folks view this concept of "Grace and Dignity" as part of submission.



I try to maintain a certain level of grace and dignity when serving my Mistress. In theory, I see dignity as something internal, an attribute that be maintained even in the most degrading circumstances.

In practice, it gets a bit difficult when Mistress decides she wants to see me dance around naked with a pair of her panties on my head. But I do try.



kyraofMists -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 10:39:09 AM)

Alandra and I are required to submit to him with grace.  What that means to him is that when he gives an instruction it is to be carried out without resentment, without a bad attitude and no passive agressive bullshit.  Our behavior while doing something we do not want to do or don't like should not be any different than our behavior when doing something we enjoy. 

For him, it is all about attitude.  That does not mean that we have to like everything that he wants us to do or that we withold from him the fact that we dislike it.  When it is appropriate to do so, we can ask permission to share our opinion with him.  Usually, when I tell him that I don't like something, he just grins and says "yeah, I know."  It is all part of that sadistic wiring that he enjoys knowing I am doing something I dislike.  He also really enjoys seeing us submit with grace to something we dislike.  Most of the time, I find it highly amusing.

Knight's Kyra



OttersSwim -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 10:47:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
In the same breath you have to also remember, not everyone desires dignity nor grace.  Some people do not lack self esteem but desire to be used and lowered.  That itself is nourishment to some.  Just because they do not have grace nor dignity on their agenda, does not mean they do not understand themselves.

the.dark.



Well, and I find that interesting as well as I certainly find the desire to be lowered in myself and am looking forward to seeing how that plays out.  I am still in analysis of it all, so it is nice to have feedback from folks who have experienced it over time and can just be with it as it comes - spiritual or lowly and carnal.  :)  Thank you for the insight.



oceanwynds -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 10:48:15 AM)

Thank you OttersSwim
Basically, i am not one to read the profiles. i find there are some really healthy posts on here that help me to sort through my own thoughts. i think i be lost if i didnt read the posts and think about what has been said. Not everyone i can relate too, but doesnt mean i hang a judgment on them either.

blessings
oceanwynds



OttersSwim -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 10:52:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Wheldrake
In practice, it gets a bit difficult when Mistress decides she wants to see me dance around naked with a pair of her panties on my head. But I do try.


Wheldrake, your post made me laugh, thank you.  I hope for a certain level of whimsy and playfulness in my relationships and it sounds like you have that.  I hope it feeds you.  :)



Icarys -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 10:52:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OttersSwim

Yesterday, my Lady and I were discussing the emotions of separation, drop, and anxiety.  She said to me, '' I want you to experience them all with grace and dignity."

That really struck home with me and got me thinking, so I wanted to ask how folks view this concept of "Grace and Dignity" as part of submission.

For me, my first thought was that it did not compute - I mean slaves and subs are not supposed to have or display dignity, right?   But upon further thought, I now believe that Grace and Dignity are a very important part of submission - it's a lot more than just surrendering.  It is responsibility to be comfortable in your skin  and to take what you are given for nourishment rather than detriment.

What I mean is integrating submission into your being so you are completely comfortable being who you are and from a point of reasoned consent be able to say "I am comfortable enough with myself that will let you do this to me, and I will work to channel your gift of dominance to positive benefit within myself, and hopefully reflect it back to you for your nourishment as well."

I am certain that integration of Grace and Dignity is required on the other side of the strapon too.  :P

I am totally new to all this, so I have read a bunch of profiles on the site trying to learn and that is where I really noticed the disparity of Grace and Dignity and integration.  A lot profiles are just full of bitterness, anger, and desire to -harm- or be harmed, or lack of proper thought "Uh...I want someone to dom me, and I will serve...thanks."  How nature says, "Do not touch." 

But there are other profiles, where the integration just sings through and you think "This is a person who has thought this through and they understand who and where they are."  There is a song by KT Tunstall called "Suddenly I See".  The lyrics capture this concept perfectly:
And everything around her is a silver pool of light
The people who surround her feel the benefit of it
It makes you calm
She holds you captivated in her palm
So I am wondering...am I on to something here?  How do you see it, or how has it expressed itself in your relationships to your Dominant(s)?

Thanks!  :)

You may be new but you've got a better understanding than someone who usually is.
Grace is a sign that you've mastered your side, or at least your on the right path. It shows to me that a person has accepted wholly  that which they say they are or want to be.

Great post.



Icarys -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 11:04:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

FIrstly why arent subs supposed to display dignity? Surely as a Dominant you would want to have a dignified submissive generally hell wouldnt anyone want their partner to have dignity, i dont think we see it like that enough you know partner but thats what it is.

Its not about a gift or any of that stuff and to be honest i dont see much of your post as relating to grace and dignity so I am going to respond to what you said. We are who we are for whatever reasons our pleasure, choices and desires are no less than anyone elses, I am not ashamed or what I am i dont think its a shameful thing (thats not to say I agree with myself 100% of the time but thats differant)

Differant people want differant things, there are of course many profiles that are sex based or physicality based or whatever, thats no less a choice than anything else its no less valid or whatever. Sure we can all be deep thinking about what we are but in reality we just are and thats it.

Dignity is great in any slave as long as it's not masking overly prideful. That can cause problems. Ya know what i mean?



OttersSwim -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 11:36:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists
Our behavior while doing something we do not want to do or don't like should not be any different than our behavior when doing something we enjoy. 

For him, it is all about attitude. 


I like this idea.  Working to create within yourself behavior of...well, neutrality even if you are doing something you don't like.  Again, I think you should not cross the border into doing something that would harm you (and I distinguish -hurt- from -harm-).



OttersSwim -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 12:35:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys
You may be new but you've got a better understanding than someone who usually is.
Grace is a sign that you've mastered your side, or at least your on the right path. It shows to me that a person has accepted wholly  that which they say they are or want to be.

Great post.


Thanks Icarys.  Yep, integration of it all into your unique identity.  :)  And I agree with you that dignity should not translate into prideful behavior.



softpjOS -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 2:30:13 PM)

I can't help but think you are confusing dignity with pride.  Neither are a bad thing unless you take them to the next level, conceit.




OttersSwim -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 4:16:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: softpjOS

Neither are a bad thing unless you take them to the next level, conceit.


Agreed. :)

Thanks everyone for the good conversation.



Icarys -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 5:00:06 PM)

Grace is feeling pride and dignified and still able to kneel at another's feet.
Grace is taking correction and making His words your belief.
Grace is having a bad day yet coming to your Master with a smile on your face even after He has you do something you don't want to do.
Grace is letting go of ego and attitudes, bitterness and self.

It's the beauty of a person's spirit when they have given up their own agenda's and replaced them with your's.




catize -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 5:00:58 PM)

Physical grace has never been my strong point.  I have told the story before about the time that R. commanded me to model a pair of high heels.  I was such a klutz that he started laughing so hard he had tears in his eyes.  I believe I attained some grace and kept my dignity because I was able to laugh at myself as well! 



lusciouslips19 -> RE: Grace and Dignity in Submission (9/5/2008 5:16:48 PM)


For me I always strive for the old saying of "a whore in the bedroom and a lady in public." However, It is possible that my free spirited nature and not caring if I act a fool or goofy gets in the way. I try to have grace and dignity about me. But at the end of the day making him happy, making my friends laugh and showing compassion is more important. So i am okay if really others dont see it.



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