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subbysubsubsub -> RE: Turn-ons that ethically terrify you (9/14/2008 1:57:14 AM)
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So to sum up:
You have these obsessive thoughts that you can't control, you know they're questionable and disturbing, yet you can't help but think about them. You take measures such as posting these thoughts online hoping that they'll keep you in check, yet at the same time seek out justification for thinking these very thoughts from the same people who are suppose to keep you in check.
No matter how you go about this, you're always going to end up at the same exact place you started out.
The following are just a few thoughts:
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
But when my actual happiness is directly contingent on the real and soul-deep unhappiness of my victims, where does that put me, ethically?
First of all, do you mean your actual happiness is contingent on causing unhappiness or merely thinking of unhappiness?
Secondly, this is a question that only you can define yourself. Everyone's ethics has a different definition. Some employ a utilitarian definition, in which, your actions would be deemed unethical (and outright illegal). When it comes to your thoughts, however, you need to consider who's being harmed by your thoughts.
After reading your posts, it seems pretty clear that you are being harmed by your thoughts. Please let me explain why.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
Well, the problem is that these aren't so much fantasies as obsessions - and they're the kinds of obsessions that tends to lead to having one's self-agency taken away if one seeks help regarding them, even if one has never actually acted on any of them.
Let me first state that one of the most important things in life is self-control. When you stated that they "aren't so much fantasies as obsessions," this is where it gets troubling IMO.
Obsessions, by the very definition of the word, are invading thoughts that a person is not capable of controlling. This to me, signifies that you're already starting to lose your grasp on these thoughts, and it's very possible, if not probable, that you will lose more and more control over these obsessive thoughts if something is not done about them. Someday, it might progress to where you actually feel the need to act out on these thoughts.
It seems to me that the reason why one's self-agency might be taken away for disturbing thoughts could be the correlation with actually acting out on those thoughts. People who commit egregious crimes almost certainly had thoughts about them, most often recurring, obsessive thoughts/images/etc.
So to sum up, I'm not saying that most people who have disturbing thoughts actually commit them. But rather, most people who commit disturbing crimes, have recurring thoughts about them. IMO, it may not be a bad idea to be placed under observation, either voluntarily or involuntarily.
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ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
I'd rather have people KNOW that I have these sorts of desires, as it makes it far more likely that I will never act on them. Consider posts like this my way of "keeping myself honest", while simultaneously exploring the possibilities of actually becoming that kind of monster. Not as fantasy, but more as a cautionary tale.
Again, this seems to me that you're losing your grip on these obsessions. The fact that you're relying on other people to "keep yourself honest" and "make it far more likely that [you] will never act on them" is troubling to me because it shows that you're unable to "keep yourself honest" by yourself, without taking the further step of relying on other people (even if it is just making it known to others that you have these obsessions). Most people wouldn't have to take this extra step to keep themselves at bay.
IMO, if you feel the need to rely on others to "keep yourself honest," the best place to go is a therapist. I understand that you've been seeking one out, and I hope that you continue to do so.
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ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
Once or twice. I stopped once I realized that if I kept going, I might likely be placed under involuntary observation - for nothing more than desires.
Again, these are not mere desires, but obsessions as stated earlier. If the therapist decides it's in your best interest to place you under involuntary observation, it may not be a bad idea.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth
Not quite. I think I'm looking for an ethical justification for wanting to maim someone against their will.
Of course, as the thread weaves back and forth, I'm liable to speak on this from a myriad of perspectives; this is just one.
Does any of this make sense?
You seem cognizant of your thoughts bordering the line between ethical and unethical behavior and that a professional may place you under observation for these thoughts, yet you continue to seek out reasons for justifying these thoughts. Why are you doing this?
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