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The Lives of Women and Men - 9/7/2008 6:56:17 PM   
candystripper


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Gather a group of ten adult Women together.
 
Look at them one by one.
 
One has been raped.
 
One is a survivor of domestic violence.
 
One experienced incest in her formative years.  
 
Each of the three is fundamentally, utterly, different than the other two…and all three are different from the other seven.  Let’s call these three the ‘separate Women’ for the sake of discussion.
 
It does not matter much which ten adult Women you choose for this purpose. 
 
Try anything you like to get a different result.  Choose ten wealthy Women.  Ten powerful Women.  Ten nuns.  Ten young Women.  Choose any race or religion you like.
 
It might be possible to get more than three of these ‘separate’ Women.  You could choose from among the denizens of a women’s’ shelter. Or comb through arrest and conviction records anywhere – at least in the US – and drive up the number of ‘separate’ Women in your group of ten.
 
What you cannot do is find is a group of ten adult Women with less than three.
 
How is that a difference in the lives of Men and Women?
 
After all, Men can be victims of crime…Men can be victims of rape, domestic violence and incest.  Someone you know probably is, and you have never suspected. 
 
Adult Men who are victims of violent crime, sexual assualt and the like are rarely more ‘visible’ than Women with such experiences.
 
So where is the difference?
 
Well, first, less is known about adult Men who are victims of violent crime, for the most part, particularly the crimes of rape, domestic violence or incest. 
 
So, I cannot posit for you that ‘any group of x number of adult Men’ would include a male version of a ‘separate Woman’ by a factor of x.
 
So perhaps there is no difference in the Lives of Women and Men….perhaps we just need more information about Men…and the premise of this essay will go up in smoke?
 
No.
 
Why?
 
Because gay, straight, bisexual or asexual…Women have different bodies than Men.  Different internal and external organs.  Different skeletal systems.  Different musculature.
 
I could belabor the point, but the essential difference…for Men, at a certain age, DNA kicks in and musculature and its attendant strength develop.  Not utterly without exception, not without fully recognizing  there are aberrations, but overall, Men attain at least the physicality if not the mental or emotional ability, to defend themselves in an attack in a form and to a degree that Women do not.
 
One other factor plays a role:  the perpetrators of the crimes of rape, domestic violence and incest are, as a pretty well-settled factoid, Men…and their victim preference tends to a very high degree to be Women, perhaps prior to adulthood, but just as often, after attaining adulthood….a growing segment of the aging population of Women are becoming victims of such crimes.  It’s clear that for a growing number of offenders, their victim of choice is an elderly Woman.
 
From birth to death, a Woman is a victim of choice to a small but significant number of Men.  The converse does not seem to be true.
 
So what makes a Woman a ‘separate woman’ following a crime of rape, domestic violence, or incest?
 
It is not how she ‘handles’ the experience and its aftermath…if there is one.
 
It is not measurable by any known psychological test, life skills study, or other means.
 
It is what she knows...in her bones..that cannot be learned another way.  It is what makes her deeply, darkly aware of her own capacity for violence.
 
It is what she has learned about Men…the Men who hurt her look and act no different from the Men who never would…until they do.
 
It is not the same to be an adult Woman in the US as it is to be an adult Man.
 
Sadly, this is one reason why.  
 
candystripper 
 

< Message edited by candystripper -- 9/7/2008 7:20:09 PM >
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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/7/2008 7:17:14 PM   
kdsub


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There is a class of men and women you have left out...one I belong too. I am an abuser...I abuse my body...I abuse my mind... I abuse my soul... and all for no reason I can remember.

I'll bet there are very few men or women that would meet the..."Normal"...standard. I think most all of us have mental problems at least at some time in our lives.

So I don't think your 3 in 10 even comes close to the truth.

Butch

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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/7/2008 7:23:26 PM   
candystripper


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

There is a class of men and women you have left out...one I belong too. I am an abuser...I abuse my body...I abuse my mind... I abuse my soul... and all for no reason I can remember.

I'll bet there are very few men or women that would meet the..."Normal"...standard. I think most all of us have mental problems at least at some time in our lives.

So I don't think your 3 in 10 even comes close to the truth.

Butch


Butch,you have a point.  Self-abuse such as cutting and anorxia came on the scene 'after my time'.  I have no idea how these things get started or why they proliferate.  Self-hatred doesn't seem to explain it; there was probably more self-laothing in general among Women in my generation than yours.
 
My best wishes to you,
 
candystripper 

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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/7/2008 7:27:20 PM   
Termyn8or


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Any Man can be gang raped, the difference is instead of grabbing a phone, he will generally load a gun.

I believe I have already explained the details about why Men and Women are different, and it goes back a long way. It is changing, but slowly. More and more Women are strong, and more and more Men are weak, but that is not the whole story. We respond to these things in different ways.

Take it on a lighter level, I have known more than one Man to go out looking for a car that was stolen from him. Some ask "What happenes if you run into the thieves ?", and they reply "I would love to because I want blood". How many Women do you know that did anything other than call the police when their car got stolen ?

The reasons for this difference are rooted deeply in human history, and I have described this on the forum. I can't remember where, but I will be happy to describe it again if asked. Just ask, but I will put it out here.

If a Woman in my family or chosen family was violated, what would then happen is something I won't put out here. I can feel TOS breathing down my shoulder just mentioning it.

T

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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/7/2008 7:33:04 PM   
candystripper


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Ah yes, the best part of being a Woman...Men.
 
Your Women friends will console you, tend to your wounds, etc.
 
Your Men friends will avenge you.
 
I know which one I like better.
 
candystripper 

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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/7/2008 8:11:45 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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The only thing I'm sure of about men and women is that men are more likely to act violently and women are more likely to be attracted to violence in men.

I've never seen a man look at woman in a real fight and say damn I'm getting horny, he might hope her tits flop out, but the actual violent act is no turn on. Women, (some), are attracted to violence, and aggression in a sexual way.

So, there you have the answer and the non-answer. As an average, males are more violent, and women are attracted to violent men.

Plenty of examples can be drawn showing that is the case. Of course I'm talking about averages, not all women, and not all men. But if a woman finds herself repeatedly in violent relationships, that is probably a selection process whether conscience or not. Women tend to deny this even when selecting mates with violent past histories. LOL. It's delusion.

I'm only 31 and this pattern jumps out like newprint on a paper. I know several women right now, that jump from one violent relationship to another, and constantly come crying about it later. When it was obvious from the beginning what the result would be.

I'm not excusing violent men, or the women that in some cases seek them out. In many cases these are the households where the children then become victims, it's sad, and stupid all in one.

Generally both violence and attraction to it, lessen with age though, but for some never. It's our monkey brains still following the rules of the jungle in the city, nothing more. Some just haven't recognized the change of scenery.


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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/7/2008 8:25:06 PM   
candystripper


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quote:

I've never seen a man look at woman in a real fight and say damn I'm getting horny, he might hope her tits flop out, but the actual violent act is no turn on. (Excerpt.)

NeedToUseYou


Women do not generally attack other women in the same way, and with the same intent, as they attack Men.  Women attack other women generally to disfigure and humiliate.  However, I have never been in a bar where a 'catfight' broke out when damned near every f**king Man in the joint didn't get an instant hard-on, and damn near riot to get a good view.
 
I guess we drink in different bars, Need.
 
candystripper 
 
 

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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/7/2008 8:35:11 PM   
Vendaval


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Count me as one of those women who would be grabbing the gun rather than the phone after being attacked.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/7/2008 8:40:35 PM   
NeedToUseYou


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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

quote:

I've never seen a man look at woman in a real fight and say damn I'm getting horny, he might hope her tits flop out, but the actual violent act is no turn on. (Excerpt.)

NeedToUseYou


Women do not generally attack other women in the same way, and with the same intent, as they attack Men.  Women attack other women generally to disfigure and humiliate.  However, I have never been in a bar where a 'catfight' broke out when damned near every f**king Man in the joint didn't get an instant hard-on, and damn near riot to get a good view.
 
I guess we drink in different bars, Need.
 
candystripper 
 
 


Hrmmm, the men watch to see the other dude bleed and possibly get killed, it's not sexual.

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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/7/2008 8:44:20 PM   
Vendaval


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I firmly believe that agression is hard-wired into the human species, especially in the males.  Survival of the individual and thus the species and all that.

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE


http://KinkMeet.co.uk

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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/7/2008 9:21:34 PM   
Quivver


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couldnt much of this be learned from childhood? 
even today, little girls and little boys are treated differently. 
although as a little girl i had the princess thing going on,  i also was taught to defend myself and had that tested a time or two. 
possibly it was the influence of a strong father figure that i understand hunting down the car thief or defending what needs it. 
all the while other extended family members similar in age wouldnt have been pro acting even if in their own defense. 

look at some of the men today. 
those raised by well meaning people, yet they failed to instill something that i know i look for in man. 

just a thought.......... 


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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/7/2008 10:14:18 PM   
hizgeorgiapeach


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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper
Your Women friends will console you, tend to your wounds, etc.
 
Your Men friends will avenge you.
 


Some of us would rather avenge ourselves.  Yes, I'd be one of those grabbing a firearm.  I wouldn't even have to slow down long enough to load it, since I generally keep at least one or two loaded and near to hand at all times.
 
I neither need nor want Consoling when the shit hits the fan - I want Revenge - and there will be time to "tend wounds" once that revenge has been achieved.

_____________________________

Rhi
Light travels faster than sound, which is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/7/2008 10:19:29 PM   
Lashra


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Count me in too. Hurt me or mine and someone is going to pay with their blood. I have gun(s), I know how to use them and I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger. Yes I am a woman, but sitting around talking to my friends about what happened while the criminal ran the streets free would not satisfy me one bit. Do the crime do the time, whether it be in a cell here on Earth or in hell. It doesn't matter to me.

~Lashra


_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”






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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/7/2008 10:25:08 PM   
bipolarber


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Well, there IS one other class of male, that is a victim of choice to the rest of them.

Gays.

Or rather, gay, bi, or trans men.

I got bashed when I was younger, and the physical strength of being male doesn't count for much when you are jumped by a group. Especially a group armed with improvised clubs.

Yeah, men who are insecure in who and what they are, are always out to prove themselves. Some of them are violent toward anyone they perceive to be a threat, or who seem weaker than they are. Or those who don't fit into the mainstream.

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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/8/2008 1:31:58 AM   
candystripper


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bipolarbear, there's little anyone can do when attacked by a group apart from protect the head as best as possible.  It's not reflection on anyone's strength; we aren't the Incredible Hulk, and don't magically turn into monsters when attacked.
 
I am dreadfully sorry you were attacked -- I hate that word, "bashing' -- makes it sound as if someone bumped into you.  All I can say is that you're still here, still a kind and generous Man, and that is the truest survival.
 
candystripper 

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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/8/2008 2:22:48 AM   
camille65


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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

Ah yes, the best part of being a Woman...Men.
 
Your Women friends will console you, tend to your wounds, etc.
 
Your Men friends will avenge you.
 
I know which one I like better.
 
candystripper 


Thats such an enormous generalization that I can't even formulate a response.


_____________________________


~Love your life! (It is the only one you'll get).




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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/8/2008 2:47:03 AM   
simpleplan2


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I agree Camille.  Course I'm not even sure what the point of the post is.  Women are weaker than men?  You like men better than women?  What?  Sometimes these "philosophical" musings are good and stir up some really good debate and sometimes I'm left scratching my head and saying "huh?"

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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/8/2008 4:54:01 AM   
Aynne88


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Yep. Except with luck I will be grabbing my gun *before* the attack happens.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Vendaval

Count me as one of those women who would be grabbing the gun rather than the phone after being attacked.


_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/8/2008 5:28:50 AM   
meatcleaver


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These sort of statsistics have been around for years and have been proved to be flawed. That is not to say there is not too much abuse about but interested parties have long exaggerated them. I don't know where you get these stats from but one survey that came out of an America University that made its way over this side of the pond had a woman who had suffered incest and rape by her father as being two different women. That is pretty normal practice in studies in Sociology faculties. Another stat said one in four women have been raped but there is no independent evidence on offer at all for this statistic and even circumstantial evidence doesn't suggest that. I have worked for ten years in the criminal justice system and seen how stats are exaggerated to stress a point and seen them dismantled in court cases. It does the real victims no justice and in fact harms their case when wild statistics are presented as some sort of hard evidence only to be exposed as creative dross. The problem comes from people defining behaviour they experienced with no indepndent evidence. I admit it is difficult to get independent evidence but in human relationships, when subjectivity enters into relationships that have broked down, facts tend to go out of the window.

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RE: The Lives of Women and Men - 9/8/2008 5:43:20 AM   
OneMoreWaste


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quote:

ORIGINAL: simpleplan2

I agree Camille.  Course I'm not even sure what the point of the post is.  Women are weaker than men?  You like men better than women?  What? 


What I took away from it was "Men are scary"

quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper
quote:

I've never seen a man look at woman in a real fight and say damn I'm getting horny, he might hope her tits flop out, but the actual violent act is no turn on. (Excerpt.)

NeedToUseYou


Women do not generally attack other women in the same way, and with the same intent, as they attack Men.  Women attack other women generally to disfigure and humiliate.  However, I have never been in a bar where a 'catfight' broke out when damned near every f**king Man in the joint didn't get an instant hard-on, and damn near riot to get a good view.

I guess we drink in different bars, Need.


That's the nice thing about drinking at home- you can surf the 'net and find catfights where you KNOW somebody's tits are gonna flop out AND the loser is going to be humiliated

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