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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

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ORIGINAL: truesub4u
guess i'm just not as wise as you are

Not sure what brings you to that conclusion?

Unless you meant it as a snarky passive aggressive comment to try and implicate me as a know it all. It kinda sounds like it might be that. But I could be wrong.

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ORIGINAL: HerJewel
You could be, that's true. Inferences like this could disenchant some of us sweet, humble souls, turning us right off of an otherwise great forum. What a shame that would be, as all of us have something to contribute, whether eloquently put forth or not.

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we seem to cling so tightly to this false sense of self that it becomes cumbersome baggage that we carry with us.

sunshine333

i'm not acquainted with these concepts; is there a primer you could recommend? Certainly sounds interesting.

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At a very basic level you have to love yourself in order to love others. It is the way self love manifests which can be a problem or a blessing for others.

Yes we have brought up and are bringing up a selfish and undiscliplined or carinf generation. The writting was on the wall when the TV was bombarded with such adds aimed at youth that: "Ya gatta have ATTITUDE" and films clips encouraging agression, as well as the slogan: "I want it and I want it NOW!". This again is encouraginmg instant gratification and not working towards achieving the required goals.. For a long time I've watched the Pagan and esp the Wiccan scene go down the tubes with various bimbetts (male and female) producing badly written rewrires of excelerntly written source material written by authors who had a life time of practical experience and study into the Art Magickal. Now many young folks want to read two books and set up their own groups ignoring the dangers and value of being trained with people who have been there for a long time. Still as a few people on my local scene will say that it's a new world and it's time to sweet out all the past ideas and values and make everything anew.... I have no practical solutions. I do have faith in a number of the youth who have their heards screwed on and can see the values iof both arguments and who do look for guidence and co-operation with those who are happy to work for goal's and help their neighbours.. They I believe are our future.

IronBear

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However, most people exhibit SOME symptoms of all personality disorders to a greater or lesser extent. These begin as normal coping mechanisms of stress and anxiety.

veronicaofML

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As for social conservatives in this country, all conservativism in the USA is based in a fear of inferiority. The fear of inferiority reaches so deep into their being that they can not even be seen as equals to some people because to do so would push themselves as one step closer to possibly being found inferior. This is why social conservatives will do anything to keep themselves above anyone else who they deem as inferior by social, economic, religious or political philosophy. For example, government programs like welfare, food stamps, and social security as well as laws concerning regulation, anti-trust legistlation and minimum wage balances people and organizations out on economic levels and therefore social conservatives are naturally against them.

ZenrageTheKeeper

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ORIGINAL: candystripper

Interesting nick, Sir. Would love to know how You chose it.

If by "social conservative" You mean "religious right" i agree with You, although i don't think You can paint them all as insecurity sufferers. Most are just officious intermeddlers and as i have so often wished, i wish again that they'd select some open land -- Utah, Alaska -- move and secede from the Union so they can set up the theocracy they so desparately want.

A conservative -- as i use the term -- believes in the smallest possible government, especially at the federal level. Pick up the trash; defend us if we are at war; regulate the flow of funds to keep the engine of capitalism running, and that's about it. A conservative also believes in the least intrusive governmental action regarding individual rights, with none whatsoever controlling the conduct of consenting adults in private.

This type of conservative still exists within the morass of the Republican Party, and we may see growth in our numbers as the country slides closer and closer to depression. When there is no gas and no fresh bread or milk, people care much less about the sexual conduct of their neighbors.

Your attack on "monotheism" struck me. i am a devote Catholic and am all too well aware of some of the Church's harmful conduct, in the US, in third world countries, in Jerusalem, etc. Bear in mind, though, that the Church is an organization made up of Men and has the flaws humans exhibit in such organizations. The parish priest may be a wonderful Man and the worship of the Trinity is not adverse to my well-being.

candystripper

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

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ORIGINAL: HerJewel
You could be, that's true. Inferences like this could disenchant some of us sweet, humble souls, turning us right off of an otherwise great forum. What a shame that would be, as all of us have something to contribute, whether eloquently put forth or not.

If I ever meet a truly sweet humble soul posting on a message board, I will let you know.

This isn't a fluffy place with candycanes and spun sugar. And if one makes passive aggressive snarky comments, expect to be called on them. To me that's part of what MAKES this a great forum- we call eachother on our BS.

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However, nothing gives anyone the right to automatic validity for anything they believe in without something more concrete than "I wanna believe" to back it up. The notion of "god" is not an automatic default for a lack of scientific understanding. Religious faith is not a substitute for a lack of empirical evidence. I stand with James Randi on this one.. if you have actual evidence, by all means bring it to me. As for the whole posthumous reward/penalty system.. If the universe deems it neccesary for me to survive death, then so be it. If not, how would I be able to acknowledge it enough to complain?

Monotheism is, by its very definition, an "I'm right and everyone else is wrong by default" philosophy based in a notion that has neither empirical evidence nor anyone who feels they have to show evidence to support it.

ZenrageTheKeeper

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ORIGINAL: Driver1961
To LuckyAlbatross, Do you love yourself so much to consider that everyone else is as defensive, snarky and not humble as you or are you in fact humble, intelligent, empathetic and a comedian?

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Either way I consider your post to be rude and unhelpful to others-hence Herjewel's comment. Just because someone doesn't respond to a CONFRONTATIONAL post doesn't mean that your (possible) overly self defensive comment is validated. Humble nice people often will not confront (waste personal energy) on those people who appear 'hellbent' on steamrolling their illformed judgements. I believe there are many humble, intelligent people here wishing to gain and project knowledge! Take off your 'horse blinkers' and see those in your wider vision. (He shakes head in pity at Luckyalbatrosses post)

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It is a fool that believes they know everthing and that another's passiveness in response is tacit approval of their actions or comments.

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Finally Luckyalbatross, thankyou for the opportunity to vent what I consider to be the most damaging aspects of chat boards for 'humble' people.

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ORIGINAL: candystripper
ZRTK, Sir, allow me to make a few points.

~Returning to the Op, let me restate my outrage at the series of events which obviously ceded a scientific decision by the FDA to the religious right, which is generally inclusive of the Catholic Church.

~i have "concrete" evidence of God's existence and love insofar as i have felt His presence throughout my life. He protected me from the worst case scenarios as a child and young woman. He brought me through the Valley when i lost my dad and later when i lost my son. He is with me, constantly, and i am deeply devoted to Him, though i cannot repay His perfect love with worship by my own flawed, sinful self.

~i am free of doubt as to God's existence but i cannot demonstrate it to Your satisfaction, i am sure. St. Augustine attempted to "prove" God existed but His logic was flawed, and like me, most believers will tell You ultimately, it is a matter of faith.

~i see no reason to interfere in scientific matters apart from ethical dilemmmas, and even then, i would not presume to know what is right for someone else.

~i acknowledge that the Catholic Church postulates it is the One, True Church. While i believe that, i do not take the next step and say everyone else is going to Hell. That just does not process for me.

~i am the 1st to admit atrocities have been and still are being commited by the Catholic Church. However, it is an organization run by Men, not God, and Men have flaws. i do not leave my Church in light of its flaws, anymore than i would leave my One if He lost an arm. However, IMO, it requires a certain amount of personal power to be a Catholic...just as i am sure it is required to be a Pagan or a Moslem, etc.

i have enjoyed Your post; most thought-provoking. One question: are You an agnostic -- who feels it is unknowable whether or not God exists -- or an atheist -- who feels God does not exist?

candystripper

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On a personal level, [monotheism] is essentially harmless.

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You could be, that's true. Inferences like this could disenchant some of us sweet, humble souls, turning us right off of an otherwise great forum. What a shame that would be, as all of us have something to contribute, whether eloquently put forth or not.

HerJewel

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I believe this is Zen Buddism. Try Zen Mind Beginner's Mind.

D (owner of j)

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This means I don't care what you believe in on a personal level. Believe in God, Allah, Shiva, Zeus, Odin, or purple leprechauns under your bed. As long as you keep it to yourself: I. Dont. Care. Its only when people start using it on an interpersonal level that it breeds the selfishness that was the point of the original post. My one true God = My one true way.

I'll answer your question later. Gotta do the 9 to 5 thing.

ZRTK

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ORIGINAL: candystripper

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This means I don't care what you believe in on a personal level. Believe in God, Allah, Shiva, Zeus, Odin, or purple leprechauns under your bed. As long as you keep it to yourself: I. Dont. Care. Its only when people start using it on an interpersonal level that it breeds the selfishness that was the point of the original post. My one true God = My one true way.

I'll answer your question later. Gotta do the 9 to 5 thing.

ZRTK

Sir; personally i do not try to convert people to Catholicism. i know we conduct RCIA classes for people wishing to convert, but the priest at Mass never says we are supposed to knock on doors like some other annoying religions i could mention. There is a "forced" conversion in Third World countries, where people ar required to "accept" Catholicism in exchange for life-saving food and medical care, or an education for their child.

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ORIGINAL: ZenrageTheKeeper

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ORIGINAL: candystripper
There is a "forced" conversion in Third World countries, where people ar required to "accept" Catholicism in exchange for life-saving food and medical care, or an education for their child.

Schroedinger's Cat must have his tongue.