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RE: consent and commitment as law - 11/30/2005 6:01:14 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
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quote:

I'm not sure I quite understand what you are saying, Tine11.

One of the subjects I study in history (I'm a historian) is slavery. I've looked at it in the ancient world, Europe, African, Asia, even in native American cultures.

Slavery existed and exists today (non-consensual type) for a variety of reasons, the reasons often determined how slaves were treated as did the individual owners and their economic circumstances.

thetammyjo


i am aware of the "human trafficking" of children and women for prostitution and pedophilia. i am aware of the "blood diamonds" coming from Sierra Leone by use of slave labor in the mines. Are there additional types of modern day slavery? How does the "slave's use dictate his treatment'? How does American enslavement of Africians prior to the Civil War compare to modern day slavery?

Sorry to ask so many questions...just answer as you wish.

candystripper

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: consent and commitment as law - 11/30/2005 10:35:41 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: candystripper

quote:

I'm not sure I quite understand what you are saying, Tine11.

One of the subjects I study in history (I'm a historian) is slavery. I've looked at it in the ancient world, Europe, African, Asia, even in native American cultures.

Slavery existed and exists today (non-consensual type) for a variety of reasons, the reasons often determined how slaves were treated as did the individual owners and their economic circumstances.

thetammyjo


i am aware of the "human trafficking" of children and women for prostitution and pedophilia. i am aware of the "blood diamonds" coming from Sierra Leone by use of slave labor in the mines. Are there additional types of modern day slavery? How does the "slave's use dictate his treatment'? How does American enslavement of Africians prior to the Civil War compare to modern day slavery?

Sorry to ask so many questions...just answer as you wish.

candystripper



There are still societies, they tend to be small, in Africa today where legal and socially recognized slavery currently exists. There other instances as well in Asia.

Most "modern" societies have outlawed slavery not all though those tend to be rather isolated. It is also fairly common for a government to outlaw slavery yet look the other way when "traditions" are follow in rural areas.

Let me give some clearer examples of how "use" affects treatment from the periods I know best: Greece & Rome.

Imagine a farms owned by Roman citizens.

One farm is a huge estate that the owner rarely visits. It is worked by hundreds of slaves who work in the fields -- at night they are chained to their beds, they are fed a particular ration, and they get poor clothing; life span after enslaved in this fashion is probably 5 years or so. The slaves who work in the house, maintaining it for when the owner does visit, get better clothes, better food, and are not chained in; life span is probably a few decades. Then there is the slave manager and his "wife" (legally they can't be married) who run the place, they get the best clothing and food, get to boss everyone around, have to report directly to the owner and probably run into the nearby town/village a couple times a week. It is unlikely that anyone in the house knows the names of the field slaves (who cares, they can be so cheaply replaced and they are so dirty!) but all of the house staff knows each other.

One farm is a medium sized estate where the owner and his family life full-time. He may have business or relatives in a town so they leave on "vacation" a few times a year. Their field slaves are probably also chained up at night but perhaps not, depends on how intense the work is. If its mostly for food, then those field slaves tend to be cared for better; if its luxury items them they'll be worked hard, be more rebellious and chained up. Life span is probably a decade. The biggest difference for the house slave and manager is that they actually lose more of their autonomy because the owner is right there; they may also be subject to sexual abuse/use and the immediate emotional outbursts of their owners. It is more likely that the field slaves have names that are known to the manager and the master though the rest of the household may not frankly care or interact with them much.

One farm is a small family affair primarily focused on supporting the family. Any slaves here will work alongside the family -- house slaves with the mistress, field slaves with the master. While they will be clothed and housed differently, the level of closeness the must develop from working with one's owner generally seems to give better food and health care benefits. Everyone will likely live in the same building (different floors and sizes of rooms) except maybe a goatherd who stays out with the flock. Everyone knows each others name and face.

Slavery in the South, in Brazil, the Caribbean, classical Athens and Rome (from the 2nd BC century to AD 2nd century to be simple about it) are all classified by scholars who study this as "slave societies" -- meaning that their economic, social and legal systems revolved around supporting and maintaining slavery.

What is overwhelmingly different about the three more modern societies is that they all used racism as a major factor in their slave system. They also tend to be far more focused on producing cash crops than in using slavery to show social or political status (which was big deal for the ancient world).

In general I would say that someone used to primarily create products for profit is treated more poorly than someone who works more closely with the owner or who has a household position. However this is subjective. I have read enough first hand accounts of slaves in those three more modern societies, to know that those in the house are also the ones chosen for sexual relationships and whom became personal targets of various owners.

As much as we may think that sounds cool to be used for sex, it seems that it is seen very negatively by the marjority of authors who view it as abuse and rape at worse and "getting by" as best. Even those who profess love for an owner have negative comments to make in regards to knowing they dissposable and replaceable.

Is this what you were looking for, candystripper?


_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to candystripper)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: consent and commitment as law - 11/30/2005 10:57:29 AM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
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quote:

Is this what you were looking for, candystripper?

thetammyjo


i cannot add much to what you have stated -- and i did learn alot, ty. My understanding is that the United Nations and possibly the World Health Organization have initatives aimed at ending human trafficking, which evidentially is done in part for sweat shops but primariallly for prostitution and pedophilia. i also understand these initiatives are considered failures. At one time, i had heard the number of women and children trapped in human trafficking, but i cannot pull it out of memory. i do remember being shocked at how high the number was.

candystripper

(in reply to thetammyjo)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: consent and commitment as law - 11/30/2005 11:09:48 AM   
afmvdp


Posts: 494
Joined: 7/10/2004
Status: offline
devotion does not come from a piece of paper or a court book, it is a purely mental, emotional and physical state and concept so I've never understood the need for people to try to institute something into it that is not needed. While I may use contracting and written rules between me and a subject, I would never expect that to be legally binding. I would though expect it to be mentally binding and to me I view that with much higher authority than I ever would the actual written law.

Remember, people break written laws on a daily basis without a thought otherwise. So what would even making it legally binding do for you? If there is dissension in the heart then the problem is far greater than anything a man in a robe could ever solve for you.

(in reply to Sunshine119)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: consent and commitment as law - 11/30/2005 1:18:27 PM   
nelbot


Posts: 95
Joined: 9/6/2005
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quote:

P.S. - Give slaves legal right to half a Dominant's assets, and let's see how many collars they sling around.



You have a very dim view of the valor and upstandingness of slaves as a whole apparent in your statement that should material worth come into play, slaves would be throwing off their collars left and right. While you have every right to assert your opinions I am hurt by this one.

_____________________________

In life there are no winners, only saints and sinners
of pleasure and pain both have their gain for
what is a devil but an angel in bondage?

(in reply to Rover)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: consent and commitment as law - 11/30/2005 3:36:02 PM   
Rover


Posts: 2634
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline
1. Neither slaves, nor submissives, nor Dominants have any more or less valor or "upstandingness" than the general population as a whole. And my view of them is no better or worse either.

2. It is observable that (as a whole) Dominants hand out collars MUCH more frequently and with MUCH less consideration than engagement/wedding rings. It's also observable that in doing so, they risk $ 20 of leather, rather than half the house, the car, the vacation cottage, the bank account and investments, etc.

3. It's common for people to imbue lifestylers as having greater, or more admirable, moral fiber and commitment than do vanillas. I don't see it (and I am out and about).

4. If you are actually hurt by what you may read on a bulletin board (let alone something as mundane as this), you might be well advised to turn off the computer.

Happy Holidays to you and yours. :)

John

(in reply to nelbot)
Profile   Post #: 46
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