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RE: How much responsibility do you take? - 9/9/2008 8:53:23 AM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
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From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
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His responsibility to me is to remain rational, realistic, use common sense, not harm me permanently and to figure out how to do all of that and still be deliciously deviant and scary. His job is much harder than mine. All I have to do is please him.

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Post #: 21

RE: How much responsibility do you take? - 9/9/2008 8:55:16 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I've done my best to eliminate any other 'masters' in her life as to not create a conflict from her serving me.

I've seen some who might think that was a red flag. I disagree. Her focus should be on You and the relationship.

Icarys,
I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain my position. I'd say 'defend' it but that would imply it is subject to change or amendment. That issue, and requirement in my search, was the most difficult to find a compatible partner. Giving up a career was a huge sacrifice for beth. I appreciated it. The fact that she did speaks to her commitment and of the trust she has in my integrity. That's a part of the responsibility I took on.

As I said, I relish it.

(in reply to Icarys)

Post #: 22

RE: How much responsibility do you take? - 9/9/2008 9:07:10 AM

Icarys

Posts: 5757
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: Icarys

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
I've done my best to eliminate any other 'masters' in her life as to not create a conflict from her serving me.

I've seen some who might think that was a red flag. I disagree. Her focus should be on You and the relationship.

Icarys,
I can't tell you how many times I've had to explain my position. I'd say 'defend' it but that would imply it is subject to change or amendment. That issue, and requirement in my search, was the most difficult to find a compatible partner. Giving up a career was a huge sacrifice for beth. I appreciated it. The fact that she did speaks to her commitment and of the trust she has in my integrity. That's a part of the responsibility I took on.

As I said, I relish it.

I believe if you want to get the full extent of what this lifestyle can offer..you have to give that much as well. Those who aren't willing to will never understand what they are missing out on.(My View)

Bless both of you for having the courage,
Icarys.

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(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 23

RE: How much responsibility do you take? - 9/9/2008 2:49:33 PM

sujuguete

Posts: 263
Joined: 7/3/2008
From: DC metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankAr
So with your parameters that you have set within your own thought process with the question is making you have a very thin idea of what responsibilty and well being is within a relationship. The logic behind myself, Knight, LA, and others, that because we do our own thing within the relationship and does not fit your requirement for the well being and responsiblity, is quite narrow.

If you go back and read the first post, you will see that I laid out two very different examples of one taking responsibility for another's well-being. The two examples I gave were on opposite ends of a spectrum. How can you then assume that my "requirement for the well being and responsibility, is quite narrow"?

I am quite willing to acknowledge that there are varying degrees of responsibility that occur in successful relationships. This thread was never intended to dictate to anyone how much responsibility one "should" take for another's well being. It was intended to satisfy my curiosity of how others view the issue.

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(in reply to FrankAr)

Post #: 24

RE: How much responsibility do you take? - 9/9/2008 2:52:17 PM

sujuguete

Posts: 263
Joined: 7/3/2008
From: DC metro area
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: sujuguete

Kyra, Lucky Albatross and FrankAr, we are all adults here, and responsible for our own actions.

As I said in post #3, I am not interested in how much responsibility one takes for the actions of another. I am asking what level of responsibility you take for the well-being of your sub/slave.

Thank you to those that have answered the question so far.

Why ask a question when one does not wish to hear the answers because the answers do not fit your ideas? You have been given the answers, you simply are not seeing them.

the.dark.

It's not that the answers don't fit my ideas. As I said, I don't pretend to have the One Twue Way to do it. The problem is that the answers don't fit the question.

I asked about responsibility for well-being, and many have answered that question. Many others have not, and don't seem to want to. They instead want to focus on responsibility for actions. It's not that it is not a topic worthy of discussion, it is just not what this thread was intended for. Perhaps someone would like to start a new thread about it?

< Message edited by sujuguete -- 9/9/2008 2:53:51 PM >

_____________________________

"The true man wants two things: danger and play. For this reason he wants woman, as the most dangerous plaything." ~ Friedrich Nietzsche

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 25

RE: How much responsibility do you take? - 9/9/2008 7:35:29 PM

alandraofMists

Posts: 187
Joined: 8/4/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sujuguete

If you go back and read the first post, you will see that I laid out two very different examples of one taking responsibility for another's well-being. The two examples I gave were on opposite ends of a spectrum.

quote:

For a Top who mainly does scenes with various play partners, I expect the responsibility is mainly the safety and physical well-being of the bottom during the scene, with perhaps some after care.

For a Master with a slave who has given up all rights and choices and is completely owned, I'm guessing the responsibility is not only for the complete health and physical well-being of the slave, but also for the mental and emotional health of the slave.

What responsiblities does the sub/slave have in taking care of their own well-being? How is the Dom/Master to know the emotional/mental well-being of the sub/slave?

The old saying..."you can lead a horse to water... but you can not make them drink" comes to mind.... even if a Master/Dom does take responsiblitity for the slave/subs mental/emotional well-being. The only one that can really make a difference is the slave/sub making the choice that their well-beingis important.

Knight's Alandra

(in reply to sujuguete)

Post #: 26

RE: How much responsibility do you take? - 9/9/2008 7:39:44 PM

MadRabbit

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Joined: 8/9/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: alandraofMists

The old saying..."you can lead a horse to water... but you can not make them drink" comes to mind.... even if a Master/Dom does take responsiblitity for the slave/subs mental/emotional well-being. The only one that can really make a difference is the slave/sub making the choice that their well-beingis important.

Knight's Alandra

Exactly.

I think it is a very romantic notion and sentiment to claim "complete and total responsibility for eveything" in a relationship, but it, unfortanely, doesn't bare any resemblence to the realities of accountability. I enjoy the fantasy of my own omnipotence in my relationship, but the degree of influence and amount of control we, as individuals, have over what transpires is very much limited.

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(in reply to alandraofMists)

Post #: 27

RE: How much responsibility do you take? - 9/9/2008 7:55:39 PM

kyraofMists

Posts: 3292
Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FrankAr
I am flying blind here and they will correct me if I am wrong. Kyra will do her best to the ability that Knight will lead her to be. She will be herself and move forward in life with her head held high, being guided by Knight. Kyra does her own thing within reason, and this reason is the rules set down by Knight.

I might be different. My slave will follow my rules, full stop. But the bottom line, and this is what I think in my mind, is that both Knight and myself do TAKE every step within our bodys for the well being and responsibilty for the females. Do you actually believe that Kyra would stay in Knight's house if he did not do this.

I don't think that you have stated things in regards to our relationship incorrectly. He makes the rules, sets the boundaries and I follow them. I know his expectations of me and I do not take any action or make any decision that violates the boundaries that he has set.

To the OP,

One of the most important expectations is to take care of my well-being. I am not allowed to do something that I know is detrimental to my well-being. He holds me accountable for this, but I do not perceive this as him assuming responsibility for it.

To intertwine this with another thread you started, I have suffered from severe depression for years. I have been symptom free for about 6 years now. It is critical for me to monitor my own mental health on a regular basis to ensure I stay symptom free. He can't do that for me; it is my responsibility. It is also my responsibility to communicate with him when I think I am getting overloaded and I perceive myself as heading down an unhealthy path. (There are times that he notices before I do) He will then do what he thinks is best to help me get back on the path he wants me on. Sometimes that means kicking my ass, sometimes it means taking things off my plate so I can better focus on the immediate needs, sometimes that means making me cry... he has any number of options that he can choose to help me, but he doesn't take the responsibility for me doing the work.

For him, his responsibility is to make the decisions and take the actions that will facilitate the well-being of the relationship and of the people within it. You are asking about well-being and what I am trying to communicate is that he takes responsibility for his actions and decisions and makes me take responsibility for my actions and decisions so that the well-being of everyone in the relationship is enriched. I see no way to seperate these things.

Knight's Kyra

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(in reply to FrankAr)

Post #: 28

RE: How much responsibility do you take? - 9/9/2008 8:55:44 PM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
Status: offline

quote:

I think it is a very romantic notion and sentiment to claim "complete and total responsibility for everything" in a relationship, but it, unfortunately, doesn't bare any resemblance to the realities of accountability

Come now MR, the "romantic notion" is only romantic from the outside looking in. Responsibility isn't for making the heart beat, but the environment that it beats. It's not romantic, its not even that difficult as long as both parties want and agree to it. Accountability references a desire to blame; commonly having negative connotations. Consider that accountability can also be a good thing, even a desired thing. No insurance for positive results, but beneficial to our definition of a 'healthy' relationship none the less.

For the sake of debate, lets take your side. Being totally accountable, or totally responsible, may be; like perfection, an impossible goal. But I'd argue that it is still a goal worthy of pursuing. Similar to the pragmatic reality that it is impossible to be perfect, striving for anything less, to us, would be striving for something less than perfection. My question to you-why bother?

(in reply to MadRabbit)

Post #: 29

RE: How much responsibility do you take? - 9/9/2008 9:07:46 PM

angelslave77

Posts: 478
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

My well being at present is defined by being in a healthy happy loving relationship with my Sir. We are both responsible for each others well being in terms of keeping our relationship thriving. The moment it becomes detrimental and damaging to either of us is this time when we sit down and decide whether it is still working and/or how we fix it. But the responsibilty is most definately 50/50

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 30

RE: How much responsibility do you take? - 9/9/2008 9:23:01 PM

MadRabbit

Posts: 3460
Joined: 8/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

I think it is a very romantic notion and sentiment to claim "complete and total responsibility for everything" in a relationship, but it, unfortunately, doesn't bare any resemblance to the realities of accountability

Come now MR, the "romantic notion" is only romantic from the outside looking in. Responsibility isn't for making the heart beat, but the environment that it beats. It's not romantic, its not even that difficult as long as both parties want and agree to it. Accountability references a desire to blame; commonly having negative connotations. Consider that accountability can also be a good thing, even a desired thing. No insurance for positive results, but beneficial to our definition of a 'healthy' relationship none the less.

For the sake of debate, lets take your side. Being totally accountable, or totally responsible, may be; like perfection, an impossible goal. But I'd argue that it is still a goal worthy of pursuing. Similar to the pragmatic reality that it is impossible to be perfect, striving for anything less, to us, would be striving for something less than perfection. My question to you-why bother?

That's just my opinion on the subject and it doesn't extend beyond me and my own lifestyle. Like anything, I welcome you to disagree with me and pursue whatever philosophy you see fit.

The way I see it, there is two ways to look at "responsibility". One is a quality in which one possesses similar to other qualities like "integrity" and "competence". If we are defining responsibility in that way, I say strive for perfection.

The other way is in terms of "accountability", not in a sense of "blame", but rather in terms of the origin of an action or the assignment of a task to complete. I find that in any relationship, the share of the work that is involved for the success of that relationship or the completion of an endeavor is divided among the people involved. In a power based relationship, that distribution might be 60/40 or 70/30, but in an honest assessment, to say that the dominant is the sole origin of all actions and the preceding consequences or the completer of all tasks is pretty false.

Case in point, I am not responsible for the submission of my partner. If I was, the search process for a compatible partner would be a lot less difficult! I could just find someone compatible with me in a basic sense and then make them submissive as the origin of that submission!

But I'm not....and they are the one's responsible for their submission to me. It is my responsibility to make decisions and their responsibility to fulfill and respect them. If they don't fulfill that responsibility, then the relationship will come to an end with me walking out the door.

< Message edited by MadRabbit -- 9/9/2008 9:25:39 PM >

_____________________________

Advice for New Dominants
The Unpolitically Correct Lifestyle Definitions

Obama is NOT the Messiah! He's just a VERY NAUGHTY BOY

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 31

RE: How much responsibility do you take? - 9/11/2008 2:40:34 PM

Worldly1

Posts: 37
Joined: 8/20/2008
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I want her to have her own bank account and her own credit cards and be responsible for them. I want her to choose her own career path.

My responsibility is to nurture her, encourage her, protect her from harm as best I can, and to provide guidance and advice based on my 61 years of life, but then let her make her own decisions, for which she is solely responsible.

Above all, I want her to be fully functional in the real world if something were to happen to me. It's a pathetic situation when I hear about a woman who was never allowed to do anything on her own and then ends up on her own. She can't get credit and has challenges just managing her life. An honorable Master should do his best to avoid that for his submissive/slave.

(in reply to sujuguete)

Post #: 32

RE: How much responsibility do you take? - 9/11/2008 5:59:37 PM

patina

Posts: 493
Joined: 9/14/2006
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I hope i can be clear in this answer i beg forgiveness if i confuse you.

As a slave who has cognitive problems --short term memory loss-and whose brain can not see or find grammatical errors, due to a major stroke, and on top of that has Bi Polar II, OCD, ADD/ADHD, and is Dyslexia. I take full responsibility for my mental and emotional well being. Now saying that I hope a Master will be -responsible- enough to understand that at times i will need to be reminded to take my meds to stay level. To monitor my emotional level, to understand i will get things easily confused and will help explain clearly and even repeatedly.

But still in the end it is my responsibility to take my meds, to state when i feel low or am going into a manic.   To say i am confused please explain it some more, or i need to write this down to remember it. If i don't tell him how will he know.

These are the issues i am learning to deal with now as i live alone with no one around me at all anymore. i am on early retirement disability so am financially ok, i just hate to live alone and to cook for one. But i am not willing to just accept anyone to ease my delima of oneness- such a word?

I can get easily swayed by Dom's feeding me a line but am learning to not be as quick to believe or rush into things now. I am taking things slower but i still feel like i need to ask and see if others agree with my own thoughts. I seldom trust my own judgement in some area anymore? it sucks having a stroke.

A master can help monitor mental and emotional issues but it is still up to the slave to let him know of her well being in those areas after all it is her mind and spirit. masters are not mind readers.

well this is my 1 1/2 cents worth.

patina

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Post #: 33

RE: How much responsibility do you take? - 9/11/2008 6:19:30 PM

KnightofMists

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to the OP...

I am responsible for my actions(inactions) and my decisions(indecisions) that contribute or detract from the well-being of my girls. This is without exception............... However,

My girls are also responsible for their actions(inactions) and their decisions(indecisions) that contribute or detract from their well-being.

It is a joint responsbility to ensure their well-being. As Alandra made note of.... "you can take the horse to water but you can't make them drink" I will also add... "that you can also take them to poisoned water and they will drink"

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to sujuguete)

Post #: 34

RE: How much responsibility do you take? - 9/11/2008 6:56:55 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
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From: Nashville, TN
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The word "responsibility", I've noticed from looking over this thread, is a sensitive hotword.

One one side, it represents some last vestige of personal humanity when brought up which seems influenced by the disparity in views between the TPE and non-TPE crowds. Technically, it could be said that the Master is never completely 'responsible' because even in the final act of surrendering responsibility, the slave makes a choice of responsibility...but I think such a view is a semantic red herring which misses the point.

On another side, the question can be morphed into a legal question, which would seem to nullify the notion of shifting responsibility (since, for instance, a slave committing a crime at the Master's behest would still be the one legally accountable for the action...well, there is then an issue of coercion and so on...but we get the point).

While both parties are "responsible" for taking steps and making decisions toward the best interest of the relationship, it is the Master who sets these parameters and upon whom, ultimately, the continuing responsibility rest in congruent proportion to the degree of power exchange, where the responsibilities of "well being" for the slave lie just with understanding the mechanisms that will best please her Master and with understanding her pre-delineated, relationship-ending hard limits so as to invoke the demand of release when blatantly violated.

So, while the 'safe' answer I think is to say both parties are responsible for their own well-beings and simultaneously responsible for the well being of the other, I think the question is one of complexity and emotional sensitivity.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 9/11/2008 6:58:33 PM >

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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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Post #: 35

RE: How much responsibility do you take? - 9/11/2008 8:28:39 PM

KnightofMists

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Joined: 7/29/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

So, while the 'safe' answer I think is to say both parties are responsible for their own well-beings and simultaneously responsible for the well being of the other, I think the question is one of complexity and emotional sensitivity.

I am not sure what you mean by safe... could that be Political Correct? Personally.. I think it is just an answer... I would also note that just be parties are responsible.. doesn't equate to parties accepting said responsibilities. As they say.... everyone is innocent in jail...

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Knight of Mists

An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 36

RE: How much responsibility do you take? - 9/11/2008 8:54:04 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists
I am not sure what you mean by safe... could that be Political Correct? Personally.. I think it is just an answer... I would also note that just be parties are responsible.. doesn't equate to parties accepting said responsibilities. As they say.... everyone is innocent in jail...

I think I meant "safe" in the sense of it being an answer that, while correct on a basic level, doesn't address the more complex dynamics. Also, the complete relinquishing of control (and therefore, responsibility) can be a touchy subject for some people...so, in that sense, it also potentially skirts a hot topic.

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to KnightofMists)

Post #: 37

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