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Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/9/2008 5:44:26 AM   
urlittleprincess


Posts: 149
Joined: 12/18/2007
Status: offline 		im kind of wondering if there is a point at which a Dom or Master decides that the vanilla part of His life(vanilla needs/desires) takes precedence over the D/s or M/s needs?  my Dom and i have been having some 'issues' lately...He told me a couple of weeks ago that as long as He can control His partner He doesn't need a D/s or M/s relationship per se and wants to drop the D/s in our relationship.  this has caused alot of issues for me because i am going to live with Him in just a few DAYS and want/need the boundaries of the D/s lifestyle...i feel like it is too late to back out of going now, but i am not happy or excited anymore...
 
our common interest in D/s is what brought us together, and i have been going to Him for a week to 10 days a month (sometimes more) for the last year and half...   i dont think it is fair for Him to just decide He doesn't want the D/s anymore after 1.5yrs together.  He is excited about me moving there...planning dance lessons and lots of fun things for us to do, but i am depressed because i dont know how it will be without the little protocols we have?  i am used to being His submissive...used to doing everything with Him in mind always...used to the protocols and excitements that have become as much a part of me as the entire relationship itself...
 
i realize that it takes 2 people to make a relationship work...and if He only wants to control some aspects of our relationship as opposed to full D/s i am powerless to 'make Him' be the Dom...but after being this way for a year and half is it possible to just 'be' vanilla?  ive noticed Him flip flopping in phone conversations lately...and all it does is make me feel sad and then i act out because this is not what i signed up for...will we slip back into our natural way of interacting once i am there?  will His Dom nature simply respond to my submissiveness?
 
please share your thoughts with me...i am just feeling so sad and He is getting tired of hearing about it...He says im thinking too much and to "just get your ass over here and we will see how we feel and work through things together"...<sigh> 

< Message edited by urlittleprincess -- 9/9/2008 6:05:18 AM >
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/9/2008 6:17:33 AM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		Well, the "getcher ass over here" part sounds promising, but if you are feeling conflicted i would definitely talk to him about it. Is it possible that he is just concerned that once you move in together that there would be some fatigue with the protocols you use now for the short term visits? i know that one of my friends thinks that the D/s is all the things she does/protocols...etc...and i keep trying to explain that under that should be an underlying feeling that you are being led by someone who is capable of leading you. In other words, its the outward actions that establish the D/s but in reality the dynamic runs deeper than calling someone by an honorific, or kneeling before he comes thru the door after work...etc. i dont know about living D/s 24/7,live in, but i have lived with partners long term and there needs to be a base; a foundation. Without the icing of the authority transfer/exchange. Without the shiney accessories.
Ask yourself if you love the man that he is at the core. If the answer is yes then you have your answer. If deep down you need the protocol in order to feel for him then you need to talk.

It doesnt seem fair to switch horses midstream and the way you have worded it here it seems hes trying to bait and switch you a bit...that cant be the case, right??
How far are you moving. Do you already have a job set up where you are moving...is where you are moving somewhere you want to live? Can you be happy on your own in the new location?

If hes "tired" of hearing your concerns about changing your entire life over what could become a relationship that wont fulfill you...too bad. This is a real time move here.
Just my two cents based on how i  interpreted what you wrote.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to urlittleprincess)
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RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/9/2008 7:07:09 AM   
SirMIkeSD


Posts: 613
Joined: 3/16/2007
From: San Diego, Ca
Status: offline 		Some people want to drop the SM when the fall in love, it could be the same here with the D/s ask him, talk with him about it. See where his head is, is it love is an issue or is he just tried of "playing" because it's not in him. Once you know the reason you will know better what you need to do.

Mike

(in reply to persephonee)
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RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/9/2008 7:38:46 AM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

will we slip back into our natural way of interacting once i am there? will His Dom nature simply respond to my submissiveness?


I would take him at his word that he no longer wants a D/s relationship.  Now is the time for you to speak up regarding your needs and what was previously agreed to.  Maybe instead of moving to him you can do a vanilla trial and see if there is enough there to keep you interested in pursuing the relationship.  People do change over time and you can't control everything.  It's your decision as to whether you can adjust to these changes.  I think it's wrong to think that you can move there and everything will magically change to the way it was.


_____________________________

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- Albert Einstein

(in reply to urlittleprincess)
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RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/9/2008 8:19:37 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

im kind of wondering if there is a point at which a Dom or Master decides that the vanilla part of His life(vanilla needs/desires) takes precedence over the D/s or M/s needs?  my Dom and i have been having some 'issues' lately...He told me a couple of weeks ago that as long as He can control His partner He doesn't need a D/s or M/s relationship per se and wants to drop the D/s in our relationship. 
ulp,
Don't blame yourself! One question, was this his first RL experience with D/s? This could be a case of what I call 'DI - DI' (Did It - Done It)

There is a life expectancy to new sensations. The thrill of doing something 'taboo' or different may be a draw. They are bored with 'vanilla' and think that the world of 'WIITWD' offers an exciting alternative. It's in the same category as a new toy or video game. At best its a vocation instead of an advocation.

It becomes a problem when one half of the relationship, in this case you, is processing the sensations differently and processing them on a level incongruous with your partner's. Rarely is there a happy compromise, especially when one identifies with the 'lifestyle'. (Hate that word, but too early to think of another!)

In my experience, there is really no preparation or planning that can prevent this. Even with the most 'experienced' the issue of defining roles and the place they have in your relationship can only be experienced and not discussed. Sure you can talk about the parameters going in, but your mental image of 24/7 and your partners, won't be obvious and fully disclosed until you live it.

Granted one in a half years is a long time to 'Do-It', before getting to the 'Done-It'. That speaks well of the value and quality you bring to a relationship.
quote:

will we slip back into our natural way of interacting once i am there?  will His Dom nature simply respond to my submissiveness?


As to your other question; are you sure he has a "Dom nature"? It doesn't appear so. If he did he wouldn't need a 'vacation' from it, or express a desire to be 'vanilla'. It was fun for him. Obviously he enjoyed the sensations. Nature is disclosed by actions; this action indicates it isn't in his 'nature' to be a 'Dom'.

Whether he'll respond to your "submissiveness"; depends. On any given night perhaps, if he's looking to experience that sensation again. I'll share a personal experience from the other side of the flogger. My ex-wife announced to me that she wanted to only be vanilla soon after we were married. Yet, every so often I'd come into the bedroom and find her naked, in cuffs, and wearing clover clips. Did I respond to her 'submissiveness'? Sure - sometimes, because although I'd represent Dominance is in my nature, I enjoy the inflicting sensations on a sub and will take advantage of the opportunity to do so. However over time - I came to resent any gestures of 'submissiveness'. I couldn't and didn't want to be a Dominant on demand and a service provider. Eventually I re-initiated a search that took many years to find a partner who didn't require I compromise my desires or my nature.

You'll have to make that decision for yourself. It may be painful, but it will help you getting to know yourself better.

Good Luck!

(in reply to urlittleprincess)
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RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/9/2008 10:01:37 AM   
Stephann


Posts: 4214
Joined: 12/27/2006
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		Hi princess,

I'll echo what the others have said.  It sounds like he's gone from viewing your relationship as a sort of living D/s fantasy, to trying to figure out how to incorporate you into his life full time.  Even ten days a month still leaves him able to keep your relationship firmly in the 'fantasy' realm.  It seems that your moving now is what has triggered his fear of maintaining the D/s dynamic.

I don't forsee an easy or simple solution.  You really need to talk to him, tell him how you feel about this, and make some hard decisions for yourself about if you would want to maintain a relationship with him, without the D/s dynamic that you've gotten used to.

Good luck,

Stephan


_____________________________

Nosce Te Ipsum

"The blade itself incites to violence" - Homer

Men: Find a Woman here

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/9/2008 12:04:16 PM   
urlittleprincess


Posts: 149
Joined: 12/18/2007
Status: offline 		thank you to everyone for taking time out to share your thoughts...this has been so confusing to me...and i feel like i have been doing nothing but thinking about it day and night.  i have talked with Him ad nauseum about it...ive cried, demanded (which of course didn't work)...when i just 'give in' He seems to be His old self but honestly His old self was a whole lotta vanilla anyway!  ill try to answer some of the questions posed...
 
persephone...thank you...yes, i do love Him...but i think i would need the D/s dynamic with anyone now...this may sound nuts, but it gives me a purpose...a goal and something to anticipate...i like the intensity and it somehow feels deeper...i dont know...that is just how it feels to me...and perhaps the attraction to Him will disappear because He no longer wishes to be what He represented to me...make sense??  i m moving 1300kms...i transferred work locations within the same company and am to start a week from tomorrow...i would want to live there, but not on my own.  if He were not in the picture i would be staying right where i am...
 
hello SirMike...thank you...i dont 'think' that is the issue, but it does seem that the warmer the feelings become, the less SM there is in the D/s and He considers Himself to be a sadist.  we had one bad incident about a year ago, and that seemed to be the turning point...He became very upset and jealous...punished me in anger...i think He scared Himself because after that His DaddyDom tendencies really showed through.  He is very affectionate with me and sometimes i admit i test His patience but even when He is ready to punish me He will change His mind if i beg or cry...
 
hello KatyLied...thank you...i guess you are right.  i would be a fool to think He will change His mind simply because we are together...i want desperately to beleive everything will just 'be' the way it was...but...i suppose we were missing something in that dynamic.  because of the 'roles' and how i felt in mine, i didn't feel i could be as warm loving and spontaneous as He wanted me to be...He didn't just want a slave...He wants a lover and companion more...so long as He is in control...
 
hello Merc!!  great to see you and thank you...you know i always appreciate what you have to say!  yes, i am His first r/l D/s relationship...and perhaps i am to blame in part for this?  when He hasn't behaved in ways ive considered Domly i have told HIm so...and i have been verbal about telling Him that i think He is a DaddyDom and, at worst just a controller.  sometimes that is true and sometimes it is just perception i guess...mine...but most of the things we do are very vanilla...but the basics of D/s are there and i liek it that way!  i just don't know how i could possibly live with HIm without the D/s which has been with us since day one?  He will be happy and content doing our usual vanilla outings...staying in and watchng tv etc...but trust me, i will test His new found interest in vanilla because if He doesn't want to be the Dom then He will have no control over what i do.  when i point this out, He says yes He will...but He can't have His cake and eat it too.  i feel like this is going to be a pissing match...or He wants to maintain control, just not have certain protocols etc..what you went through with your ex sounds horrible Merc...and i can see why you resented it...it was like by 'playing' sub on occaision she was mocking what you held dear...and i have felt the same and told Him so in the last while when He gets a little Dommy with me...i tell Him that since He doesn't want D/s He has lost His priveleges....lol  :)
 
i went for a run...spent time with my mom today...im supposed to be packing up my stuff to move, but honestly perhaps my best plan would be to wait for a while. if it is meant to be it will be?  im just so tired of the emotional crap that has been going on since He told me...um...omg...perhaps i should tell you the circumstances under which He decided no more D/s....
 
we went to the dominican for a 2 week vacation...left exactly one month ago today actually!  3 nights before going home, we were having drinks on the patio after dinner.  they kept refilling my wine glass at dinner so i was a pinch tipsy.  He looked at me, and said 'you dont look happy...talk to me...tell me whats going on...' and then, i blurted out all the worries i had had in the last few weeks...feeling guilty about leaving family behind...my brother making me feel bad for needing to try my own wings and leaving him for once to step up and help with my elderly mom...my mom telling me she hopes i feel guilty if she dies...stuff like that...stuff that i should have been telling Him all along, but didn't want to make Him worry...but it all came out...He tried to be supportive...told me that if i decided i needed to stay home and take care of things for now, He woudln't be mad at me...that we would continue long distance till i could go to Him.  well...my tipsy brain took that as 'You dont want me...' and i began to cry...He was confused because He was trying to take the stress away!  we went back to our room and i told Him that if i stay home to take care of my mom and issues, that our long distance relationship wouldn't be enough for me anymore.  that i want to be the sun, moon and stars to someone...(drunk drama...ew)  at that moment i saw Him take a big step back emotionally...He had already assumed i wanted to stay home to take care of issues...and so in essence thought i told Him we were ending things.  He said we would stay in touch via email/phone but coudlnt see each other for a very long time...we talked, cried for 3 days...but He said no more D/s.  now, we are back to the point where He wants me to live with Him but no D/s.  part of me thinks that because i have been so wishy washy in my decision to go live with Him He is just protecting Himself now and everything will be ok once i am there...but then again, like KatyLied said, perhaps He is done with the D/s dynamic...
 
im sorry for not explaining everything before...i was feeling sad and emotional...perhaps the 'why' might make a difference?  i dont know...<sigh>
 
 
 
 
 
 

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/9/2008 12:22:51 PM   
mystsshykitty


Posts: 24
Joined: 8/27/2007
Status: offline 		I have a similar situation myself, Princess.  My wife and i have been married 10 years now.  8 of witch were 24/7 and then all of a sudden, she no longer wanted to be in that type of relatoinship.  We've talked at length, and we have lived vanilla for 2 years now.  We have a daughter now and everything,,  but that feeling of my submission is still there and is still strong.  I have tried to get her involved in our local group but shes still not interested and has said i can go.
Just wanted to share that i feel your pain..


(in reply to urlittleprincess)
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RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/9/2008 2:29:01 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

we went to the dominican for a 2 week vacation...left exactly one month ago today actually!  3 nights before going home, we were having drinks on the patio after dinner.  they kept refilling my wine glass at dinner so i was a pinch tipsy.  He looked at me, and said 'you dont look happy...talk to me...tell me whats going on...' and then, i blurted out all the worries i had had in the last few weeks...feeling guilty about leaving family behind...my brother making me feel bad for needing to try my own wings and leaving him for once to step up and help with my elderly mom...my mom telling me she hopes i feel guilty if she dies...stuff like that...stuff that i should have been telling Him all along, but didn't want to make Him worry...but it all came out...He tried to be supportive...told me that if i decided i needed to stay home and take care of things for now, He woudln't be mad at me...that we would continue long distance till i could go to Him.  well...my tipsy brain took that as 'You dont want me...' and i began to cry...He was confused because He was trying to take the stress away!  we went back to our room and i told Him that if i stay home to take care of my mom and issues, that our long distance relationship wouldn't be enough for me anymore.  that i want to be the sun, moon and stars to someone...(drunk drama...ew)  at that moment i saw Him take a big step back emotionally...He had already assumed i wanted to stay home to take care of issues...and so in essence thought i told Him we were ending things.  He said we would stay in touch via email/phone but coudlnt see each other for a very long time...we talked, cried for 3 days...but He said no more D/s.  now, we are back to the point where He wants me to live with Him but no D/s.  part of me thinks that because i have been so wishy washy in my decision to go live with Him He is just protecting Himself now and everything will be ok once i am there...but then again, like KatyLied said, perhaps He is done with the D/s dynamic...

lil princes,
You sure added a bunch into the equation.

Short answer: You're already serving, by my count, 3 'masters' in your life; you mom, your brother, and your security. It has been my experience that serving one is more than enough dedication for anyone. Ideally, your security should be replaced by your new relationship. However, I don't think that you are seeing any confidence reflecting back at you from the other side of the table to make you confident in your decision to up and move in with him. Combined with him not stating unequivocally that he wants, or more importantly NEEDS you in his life full time; and you have good reason to doubt. Doubt isn't the best starting point. I think you're making a wise decision not to move.

Longer answer: There will ALWAYS be someone or something in your life that you can rationalize a decision to maintain the status quo. As much as you consider your mom's life or your brother's life you must consider your own. At best you'll regret at worst you'll resent.

Moreover you are giving him an 'out'. Who knows if his desire is deeper than the sensation aspect alluded to in my first post. His goals and yours, along with you combined image of 'ideal' should have been detailed long before the decision to mover or not. The fact that you don't know, or that he now wants 'vanilla', is a function of both of you not knowing what to expect with LDR becomes up close and personal 24/7. That's what it is whether 24/7 includes 24/7 D/s or not.

I'd imagine your issues with your bother and mother would be less concerning if you had confidence in the situation that you were moving to. Then again, better to know now about his ideas concerning WIITWD than after the move. Although there is no way to tell if he used your home situation as an escape route or he truly had a change of heart concerning the lifestyle; its not something you can ignore.

I wonder what you think will happen now? As I see it, staying makes your mother happy, your brother happy, and your master happy; what about you? You've learned, you've cried, you've gotten angry, you feel betrayed, you've had guilt projected on you; very little you can do about any of that. However, what will you do tomorrow?

(in reply to urlittleprincess)
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RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/9/2008 5:26:50 PM   
Huntertn


Posts: 715
Joined: 10/7/2006
Status: offline 		hmmm..seems to me there is Lots of topping from the bottom going into the mix as well....

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/9/2008 6:04:10 PM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline 		If a dominant is wishy washy in expression of thought whether through words or action he will have these types of problems. He needs to do a self-evaluation and make the right decision. Not one wrought with fear and insecurity. He is the leader and is not leading. A submissive that is not being lead is likely to vacillate on whether to take the lead or not. Occasionally they may take action and then return back to their desired state. The exercise back and forth is unhealthy and creates pain, confusion and uncertainty, which will likely cause resentment over time.

She is not topping from the bottom. It is my understanding they do not have a Ds relationship any longer.

Dolf

(in reply to Huntertn)
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RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/9/2008 6:38:16 PM   
daddysliloneds


Posts: 1351
Joined: 6/28/2006
Status: offline 		if my entire family were trying to guilt trip me into not moving due to their own selfish desires, and not once considering my happiness, and i had a place to go, then i'd be on the next plane out of town...

and in case you haven't figured it out by now, your master wishes to eliminate the d/s when you come to him so you won't feel like he made you do anything that you might later come to regret.   he wants you to come to him out of desire, not out of guilt or the feeling of indebtness, or because you're running away from everyone else.  or so that's how it seems to me.

(in reply to urlittleprincess)
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RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/9/2008 7:04:51 PM   
DomDolf


Posts: 363
Joined: 7/11/2008
Status: offline 		You may be correct and you may not. She needs to ask him and he needs to answer. He needs to be a leader and recognize the damage being done and the potential to bring harm and stop it.

Dolf

(in reply to daddysliloneds)
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RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/9/2008 8:19:43 PM   
scottishdove


Posts: 113
Joined: 7/27/2008
Status: offline 		this is a tough situation to figure out, littleprincess.

i feel for you...

(in reply to daddysliloneds)
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RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/9/2008 8:43:31 PM   
urlittleprincess


Posts: 149
Joined: 12/18/2007
Status: offline 		thank you everyone for your previous and most recent posts...i just want to make clear a couple things...i have been my mom's caretaker from one degree or another all my life...i remember staying home from school to try to take care of her when i was 6 or 7yrs old, lived with her mental illness all through my life (had to commit her by myself for the first time when i was 18)and have the separation issues to prove it...she had a serious skin cancer 10yrs ago and i took her to all her treatments...she has had a b grade stomach cancer for the past yr and a bit which i have supported her through...she isn't being selfish in not wanting me to go...she is scared because she has always had me to rely on.  my brother is being selfish because he knows it will fall to him to help her out more if i go.  my Dom (ill call Him that just so we know who is who here) has made it clear, especially in the last few days that He misses me, wants me there and is counting the hours till i arrive.  i understand what you meant Merc about the family issues being an "out" but i honestly dont think that was what it was...otherwise i dont think He would be sounding so positive about me going there? 
 
but...again...i do not want to live without the D/s or at the very least defined perameters for the relationship.  even when talking on the phone He has been jokingly 'asking' for things He used to tell me He wants such as His feet tickled or back massaged etc...it irritates me...
 
im sorry for being so short but i am exhausted...mentally and emotionally...im going to get some sleep and i wish everyone sweet dreams...

(in reply to scottishdove)
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RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/9/2008 8:48:47 PM   
urlittleprincess


Posts: 149
Joined: 12/18/2007
Status: offline 		thank you scottishdove  :)  (((HUGS)))

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RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/10/2008 3:27:17 AM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		i would send you mail but i am unable to get it delivered at this time for some reason. i sent you a short note just in case....lemme know if you received it....check bulk.

i think that you NEED to tell him directly that you cant be happy without the D/s....but i really really agree with daddysliloneds. i think that is the most positively focused proposed reason.....cant believe i didnt think of that myself. i cut everyone a break more than once before cutting them out....so to me ask if that is the reason.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to urlittleprincess)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/10/2008 3:49:26 AM   
urlittleprincess


Posts: 149
Joined: 12/18/2007
Status: offline 		hello persephone and daddysliloneds...to be honest i had thought of that too...but i cant wrap my head around it.  might be possible though...i dont know. i dont want to think so just now though because it might give me false hope...last night He was talking just like He used about all the things we will do when i get there as well as the personal little things He can't wait to have me do, but it just seems to aggravate and annoy me right now.  if He doesn't want the D/s then He shouldn't be talking about the things i relate to the D/s part of who we are/were.  if i have to adjust my thinking then so does He...
 
i have to get to work but wish everyone a wonderful day!

(ooops....and no mail!!)

< Message edited by urlittleprincess -- 9/10/2008 3:50:06 AM >

(in reply to persephonee)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/12/2008 5:43:10 AM   
persephonee


Posts: 5089
Joined: 12/15/2007
Status: offline 		i cant stand the mail situation...its adversely affecting my ability to flirt with Greedy...which is not a good thing. Check your bulk mail according to Support.

i hope youre feeling better by now about things. Keep us updated....i kinda wanna call him. ill restrain myself.

_____________________________

You be the Captain; i'll be no one.

And You can carry me away....if You want to. ~Kasey Chambers

E*Whore, extraordinaire....

Nothing is exactly as it seems~Nor, is it otherwise.

(in reply to urlittleprincess)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: Dom switching to vanilla...??? - 9/12/2008 6:15:47 AM   
Worldly1


Posts: 37
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline 		The foundation of your relationship from the start was focused on D/s.

You say you need it in your life.

Your Dom changed the rules, just as you were preparing to move, saying that he does not want D/s anymore.

You have a decision: either stay where you are and sort it out or move and hope for the best.

If he truly wants to eliminate D/s, and if you truly need it to be happy, then the relationship is doomed either way. You'd be best off if you stayed where you are.

(in reply to urlittleprincess)
Profile   Post #: 20
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