Why do you put up with it? (Full Version)

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Mercnbeth -> Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 9:44:59 AM)

My neck is hurting more and more ever time I read the threads here on CM. It's cause is the head shaking as I read some of the posts from the self identified "submissives" and "slaves"; but the really excessive, violent, and damage inducing shaking comes from the "dominant" side. More threads are posted every day about the hoops and hurdles that "subs" want and expect their "dream dominant" to jump over and through. That's not surprising. Naive, and real time inexperienced people tend to focus on the basic, sensation driven cause/effect. I am not speaking of the ever present "limits", which during the budding relationship period are important talking points and relationship building blocks; I'm speaking of the intellectual, appearance, age, educational, and even moral conditions conditions placed in front of a dom to "qualify" contact.

The surprising part is the observed reactions of the "dom" side. I've seen; "Hey, do I meet your criteria?" much more frequently from a self professed dominate then from the subs!

For the longest time, I believed that the people with the criteria, and the people who tried to meet the criteria deserved each other. Anyone who believes that morals, integrity, even intelligence could be judged from short time on-line or phone discussions deserves the often reported failures that result from these meetings. At some very evil and bass level I even appreciated the sadistic nature of baiting a person by completing all the tasks laid before them in order to get to the submissive. Then once the meeting/session occurred the sub never heard again from their "ideal", "genius", dom of "high integrity". Who knows, maybe the counterpoint of this is the masochistic nature of a submissive who sees this as some sort of warped "right of passage" into the WIITWD world?

But there is a part of me who always believed that people want relationships. Dominant people want relationships, long term relationships, as much as vanilla people. The search may take longer and be harder than finding a session partner but it's still a reasonable goal. I mean hell, it happened with us. We believe it still happens. However, based upon all the criteria posted, and the lack of challenges to the concept, I wonder if the majority of doms posting here are submissive for the opportunity to meet? That is the only logical conclusion I can come up with other than the "evil-sadistic" one time use and dump "dominant".

Has it really become that difficult out there for dominants to be dominant in their search? If not then, why do you put up with it?



cravinspankin -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 9:53:50 AM)



quote:

But there is a part of me who always believed that people want relationships. Dominant people want relationships, long term relationships, as much as vanilla people. The search may take longer and be harder than finding a session partner but it's still a reasonable goal.


Good grief... i certainly hope so. As there are certainly some submissives out here looking for a relationship.



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 9:55:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Has it really become that difficult out there for dominants to be dominant in their search? If not then, why do you put up with it?

I think the reality is that a majority of people actually want a vanilla/love based relationship, with the kinky/power/authority stuff thrown in as a fun added bonus.

Given that, it's no surprise how people go about getting what they want.



Aileen68 -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 10:12:51 AM)

I did a search here one day, purely out of curiosity, of straight, female submissives just to see what was out there. I was blown away by how many profiles started out negative with full lists of do's and dont's that potential doms had to adhere to or they would be BLOCKED. All I could think of was that with all of that negativity how would you ever expect to find something positive showing up at your profile doorstep. It's hard enough getting your foot in the door with a sub, being that we do get a lot of mail, but now you have to follow all kinds of rules just to make an impression. And you have to prove that you have chemistry within the first message or you're out of luck with a lot of submissives here. Dominants definitely have an uphill battle here. They are not "allowed" to be dominant until they meet all the requirements of a lot of submissives and kiss enough butt. I'm glad I'm not dominant.

Edited for spelling



SlavenationArmy -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 10:31:53 AM)

IMO - These expectations from subs are not really a suprise. It really is a direct transferance from the vanilla fantasy of a "shining knight on a white horse" to a dark knight in black leather. There is no real difference between the fantasies. Either way it strikes me a supremely superficial and I wonder if they actually every find what they are looking for...

my $.02.



Kinkypupper -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 10:48:43 AM)


Has it really become that difficult out there for dominants to be dominant in their search? If not then, why do you put up with it?

Yes and Because Its worth it.




slavejali -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 12:49:12 PM)

Have been thinking about something to write for this thread, i wanted to respond as i thought the topic brought up a good point and ive seen it online a lot, Doms acting subserviant to their potential partners idea of what it is to be a slave/submissive, a lot of non D/s M/s ideals being pushed onto the relationship by the slaves/submissives list of demands of how they think it should be.

i wonder if this is one of the causes that so many meetings from online have not worked out? If the Dominant is truely Dominant, yet has presented himself as willing to bend to the submissives ideals and demands on relationship just to become attractive to her, what hope has the relationship got once it become rl, the relationship was misrepresented in the first place.

Another scenario i could think of is: a submissive has all these demands, she attracts someone who agrees with them calling himself a Dominant, she thinks she has a prize catch, but when they meet he actually has a submissive personality, which doesnt fulfill her desire to be dominated or mastered.

Am i on the right track here of what your talking about?






LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 1:09:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slavejali
Another scenario i could think of is: a submissive has all these demands, she attracts someone who agrees with them calling himself a Dominant, she thinks she has a prize catch, but when they meet he actually has a submissive personality, which doesnt fulfill her desire to be dominated or mastered.

I think that sounds accurate to me.

There's also the OTHER side- the sub going "Control me!(but only if it makes me wet and feel good)" and having all sorts of other unrealistic perceptions on Ds relationships...then when the "dom" doesn't meet them, somehow THEY are the not worthy parties.

I think, just like the "pussification of men" issue, this only happens if people allow it to happen. Simply doing nice things for someone else isn't "not dominant" and simply allowing things that you know are good to have isn't not being dominant. However, when the dominant feels they must compromise their limits and desires...then I think you're getting into trouble.



slavejali -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 1:25:03 PM)

This topic had me thinking of the pussification of men thread too.

quote:

However, when the dominant feels they must compromise their limits and desires...then I think you're getting into trouble.


So true.



Webmaster60 -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 1:33:09 PM)

quote:

"Hey, do I meet your criteria?" much more frequently from a self professed dominate then from the subs!


Is why "I" for one dont' DO "subs". Subs have ALL the power.. They dictate what they will and will not take, whats acceptable, when the "dom" can or can't...

Nope nope nope.. not for me.. Personally I see all "subs" as slaves in training. But if I make an investment in a girl, its known from the very beginning.. Its toward toward ownership, and that ownership is absolute and unyielding..

Yep.. sounds alot like the pussification thread stuff.. But hell, we've done it to ourselves, no one to blame but us.. a garden variety slut will take all the leash thats given her. That doesn't make her bad, its just human nature.. But I've said it before and I'll say it again.. the very "subs" that are acting this way, are the VERY ones that are screaming to be put on a short leash. ::shrugs:::



Mercnbeth -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 1:58:19 PM)

quote:

Am i on the right track here of what your talking about?


jali,
That is exactly what I'm talking about! Thank you.

It makes sense doesn't it? The "dom" is there for selfish reasons, the "sub" thinks they've found her hurdle jumping dom. I think the reason we haven't heard from many doms on this is that it's true. The reason we hear more on the threads from the sub side of failed meetings is that to the dom it wasn't a failure - it was a conquest, another notch in the leather belt. I don't think the "jumping" doms are feeling badly about this, or even see it as a bad thing.

The problem is in the "disqualified", the uncompromising. They have been at best ignored and at worse vilified. When in reality, these people ARE the "real" Doms that allegedly these "real" subs are seeking. (Please excuse the "real" reference - I could think of no other distinguishing adjective.)

That's bad enough, but the silence from the disqualified gives the impression of acquiescence. The emotional, philosophical, "topping from below" is much more serious than any physical intensity or type of play limit. There is no way for any Dom to be a Dom in a relationship when the relationship terms are set by the submissive. The Dom can be a facilitator, a cuckold to his own physical needs and desires, but for the most essential part of any relationship, the mental, emotional part; the Dom is submitting.

It's no wonder that often these meetings don't live up to emotional expectations. They are living up to logical expectations.



slavejali -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 2:13:38 PM)

Couldnt help myself had to pull out the dictionary:

Main Entry: dom·i·nate
Pronunciation: 'dä-m&-"nAt
Function: verb

1 : RULE, CONTROL
2 : to exert the supreme determining or guiding influence on
3 : to overlook from a superior elevation or command because of superior height or position
4 : to have a commanding or preeminent place or position in <name brands dominate the market>
intransitive senses
1 : to have or exert mastery, control, or preeminence
2 : to occupy a more elevated or superior position


Main Entry: sub·mit
Pronunciation: s&b-'mit
Function: verb
1 a : to yield to governance or authority b : to subject to a condition, treatment, or operation <the metal was submitted to analysis>
2 : to present or propose to another for review, consideration, or decision <submit a question to the court> <submit a bid on a contract> <submit a report>; also : to deliver formally <submitted my resignation>
3 : to put forward as an opinion or contention <we submit that the charge is not proved>
intransitive senses
1 a : to yield oneself to the authority or will of another : SURRENDER b : to permit oneself to be subjected to something <had to submit to surgery>
2 : to defer to or consent to abide by the opinion or authority of another


Its because i really desire, want, need those meanings in my relationship and for those meanings to act in my relationship, that i call myself a slave.



obis -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 2:49:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
The problem is in the "disqualified", the uncompromising. They have been at best ignored and at worse vilified. When in reality, these people ARE the "real" Doms that allegedly these "real" subs are seeking. (Please excuse the "real" reference - I could think of no other distinguishing adjective.)

That's bad enough, but the silence from the disqualified gives the impression of acquiescence. The emotional, philosophical, "topping from below" is much more serious than any physical intensity or type of play limit. There is no way for any Dom to be a Dom in a relationship when the relationship terms are set by the submissive. The Dom can be a facilitator, a cuckold to his own physical needs and desires, but for the most essential part of any relationship, the mental, emotional part; the Dom is submitting.


Well, I think you kind of nailed it here but also overestimate the significance of the problem.

Yes, doms generally get ignored if they don't jump through the hoops, but honestly the ones with the hoops are not the ones we're looking for, so it doesn't bother me that much to be blown off by them (except in the abstract sense that I want women to fall madly in love with me at first sight and am disappointed every time it doesn't happen [:D]).

Obviously with the greater accessibility of online communities, the barrier of entry is lower and a lot more half-hearted participants can get involved. That's great because people who are curious can find out if they like it, but we simply have to live with the fact that a lot of new/inexperienced "subs" on this site just want to be spanked a few times and then have a totally vanilla relationship. If I was content with just spanking a girl a few times, I'd probably be willing to jump through a few hoops to do it, too -- why not?

It is a pain that so many new female subs (since they are the ones immediately deluged with mail) are the most likely to start narrowing their search with arbitrary restrictions. They have to deal with those hundreds of messages somehow, and with 500 potential suitors there's always 100 willing to do any ridiculous thing to get her attention.



darkslife -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 3:30:42 PM)

Quite frankly, I don't put up with it.

There is one girl (not on this site, in real life), who I am interested in. She says I'm difficult because she can't "deal" with me like she can everyone else. Yet everyday she calls me.

Why should we put up with it? Or rather, why don't we make arbitrary conditions, just to create equal oppurtunity?

Meh.

David



Mercnbeth -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 3:54:17 PM)

quote:

Yes, doms generally get ignored if they don't jump through the hoops, but honestly the ones with the hoops are not the ones we're looking for, so it doesn't bother me that much to be blown off by them (except in the abstract sense that I want women to fall madly in love with me at first sight


Obis,
Great point, but my argument is regarding the second part of the quoted statement. The "hoop-sters" don't give themselves the opportunity to "fall madly in love" with you. Their loss and we need to point this out!



Sensualips -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 4:13:09 PM)


[/quote]
I think the reality is that a majority of people actually want a vanilla/love based relationship, with the kinky/power/authority stuff thrown in as a fun added bonus.
[/quote]

Oh me, me, me!

Not that there is anything wrong with that.



LordODiscipline -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 6:36:57 PM)

Hey!

Stop throwing logic into other people's on line fantasy!

Damned.. next thing you will want a codification of Gorean philosophy.

~J



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 6:56:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sensualips

Not that there is anything wrong with that.


Absolutely not. In fact NONE of my current relationships are based on an authority dynamic. We switch, we play, but it's definitely based on love and mutual expectations.

The problem is when trying to make it one thing and going about it in a completely different way.

I actually try and help out- showing how ridiculous the whole "prove you're worthy" carrot and stick method that new subs like to pull is. The entire stage of "just testing him" is absolutely ridiculous IMO for both the dom and the sub.

But...people do what they feel is good for them. Doesn't really change my life much.

Oh and PS, I think your pic is not only cute and neat, but also very sexy and hot at the same time!



Sensualips -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 7:31:13 PM)

Why thank you, LA. I decided I now knew you all well enough to show my face. :)

And I do agree, a person should be clear on expectations. Unfortunately it is always easier for me to say what I DON'T want than to accurately express what I do. I am working on that though.



domtimothy46176 -> RE: Why do you put up with it? (11/28/2005 7:41:39 PM)

Hmm, you know this might just serve to sooth my battered pride, lol. Since I almost never get a response to an initial e-mail and have damned few s-types contacting me, I can now assume that it's because I don't come across as a hoop-jumping type, rather than a poorly written profile or, God forbid, an unappealing profile pic ;) I feel better already, lol.
Timothy



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