"In my opinion..."

"In my opinion..." (Full Version)

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subtee -> "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 7:07:48 AM)
But is it though? Here's me: after engaging in discussion over important issues on several threads, I head to bed and turn on the TV. I'm a news junkie, so I flip through all of the news channels (yes, even including Fox). Somehow, the talking heads are saying the exact same things some here are saying--with the exact same verbiage. So it isn't really the posters' opinions, is it? Is it a kind of plagiarism to post thoughts, inferring they are your own, when quite often they are talking points proffered by a group with an agenda? Should it be cited as someone else's ideas, for example, "as they are saying on Fox News, 'blah, blah, blah'"? I posted the following question on one of the threads, seemingly shutting it down: "I am curious how you feel though; you really don't have any misgivings at all about [Sarah Palin]?" Not everyone does this, of course, but I'm rather disappointed in some who do. What do you think? Any apologists for SP care to answer the question?

Sanity -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 7:22:02 AM)
I'm more astounded by how someone at the Daily KOS thinks up a new rumor or gross exaggeration about Governor Palin, posts it there, then almost immediately it ends up living here in 'Off Topic Discussion' as a new thread, regardless of how pointless or ridiculous it is... Forget the talking heads on TV.

subtee -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 7:25:11 AM)
Nothing you have written has anything to do with my questions. Or am I missing something?

missturbation -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 7:33:00 AM)
If you are talking about people using others opinions i personally think there are no original opinions. Someone else has always had it before us.

corysub -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 7:39:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtee But is it though? Here's me: after engaging in discussion over important issues on several threads, I head to bed and turn on the TV. I'm a news junkie, so I flip through all of the news channels (yes, even including Fox). Somehow, the talking heads are saying the exact same things some here are saying--with the exact same verbiage. So it isn't really the posters' opinions, is it? Is it a kind of plagiarism to post thoughts, inferring they are your own, when quite often they are talking points proffered by a group with an agenda? Should it be cited as someone else's ideas, for example, "as they are saying on Fox News, 'blah, blah, blah'"? I posted the following question on one of the threads, seemingly shutting it down: "I am curious how you feel though; you really don't have any misgivings at all about [Sarah Palin]?" Not everyone does this, of course, but I'm rather disappointed in some who do. What do you think? Any apologists for SP care to answer the question? Well...I don't know about "misgivings"...but obviously there are questions about her knowledge of international politics, domestic economics, etc etc. etc. She doesn't come to Washington with at least a full term as Governor but, hey, Jimmy Carter did and look at his legacy as one of the worst presidents of the 20th century. We will learn more of her as she faces the press, the debates, and her appearances in town meetings with the public. Her strength has been that she has always been underestimated. Only time and exposure will encourage, or discourage, people to vote the republican ticket with her in the second spot. All we are getting now are hysterical liberal reaction to her surprise nomination. Really a great time in a long time to be a republican and I intend to enjoy, if only for a moment. There have not been too many elections over my voting life where my vote was not based on who was the lesser of two evils. On the other hand, there really has not been any election in which I participated where the choice was so clear based on what the voters core beliefs might be as the vote this year. It is clearly a definitive choice between right of center poltics and left of center politics. It's a clear choice between growing the government and counting on Washington to solve all of our problems, or put more control in the hands of the States and the people. Net, net, it's not a question of misgivings about Sarah Palin...After all, the President has a cabinet, the President has the full support of the Executive Branch of government, State Department, CIA, Joint Chiefs...etc etc. It's not as if he/she is working in a vacuum to make a judgement. I think SP can be trusted to do the right thing for our country. Whether it might be the right thing for France, or Germany I don't know..and could care less. On the other hand, Obama feels that America's greatness is behind us...that we are no longer the "shining light on the hill"...Michelle only felt pride in our country for the first time in her adult life when Barack was in the running during the democrat primary (her words).... And that is what I will be voting against...Obama's bitterness and negative view on the country versus the optimism I sense from the republicans. Listen to the democrat message...it's the worst time since the depression, children are dying because of no healthcare, people are losing their homes due to greedy brokers, (absolving individuals of any responsibility in their lives and decisions). Of course times are tough, but this is not a "third world country" and we will work out the problems with the right leadership, a leadership that has confidence in our capitalistic system and the people that make it so strong. No thank you, I'll go with McCain/SP.

kdsub -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 7:46:52 AM)
Hi subtee Other than exact verbiage I don't agree with your plagiarism premise. In most cases individuals don’t have the resources to gather information on any person place or happening. We must use the various news services. It should not be surprising that many will come to the same conclusions. I think what we do here is debate the validity, importance, and where the information fits in the past, present, and future. Butch

subtee -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 8:34:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: missturbation If you are talking about people using others opinions i personally think there are no original opinions. Someone else has always had it before us. I agree. Who said that, anyway: "there is no original thought"? Tee hee. However, when someting is quoted, rather verbatim, isn't that disingenous to claim it as your own?

celticlord2112 -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 8:35:23 AM)
quote: Not everyone does this, of course, but I'm rather disappointed in some who do. What do you think? Any apologists for SP care to answer the question? My only response is that I have answered this question. I have stated why I am comfortable with her being a "heartbeat away" from the Presidency, and have backed it up with detail. My views on Sarah Palin are already posted in these threads.

subtee -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 8:36:59 AM)
Corysub; Thank you for that thoughtful and detailed answer to my SP question. Good sub! [;)]

subtee -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 8:40:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 quote: Not everyone does this, of course, but I'm rather disappointed in some who do. What do you think? Any apologists for SP care to answer the question? My only response is that I have answered this question. I have stated why I am comfortable with her being a "heartbeat away" from the Presidency, and have backed it up with detail. My views on Sarah Palin are already posted in these threads. CL; Is "being comfortable" with her the same as having no misgivings at all about her?

kdsub -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 8:41:50 AM)
Myself I don't see how there could be original thought when discussing the actions of others... their actions are fact. There is no original thought in our investigation of those facts. Butch

celticlord2112 -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 8:46:47 AM)
quote: Is "being comfortable" with her the same as having no misgivings at all about her? Yes, I believe it is. I do not agree with everything she has done, nor do I agree with all of her views. I am comfortable with assessing her as an intelligent, strong, capable, and withal competent person who will be up to the challenges and demands of the Oval Office should she find herself sitting in it prior to 2012--and, barring any major mishap between now and then, I would not be wholly surprised to see her sitting there anyway after 2012.

subtee -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 8:49:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 Yes, I believe it is. I do not agree with everything she has done, nor do I agree with all of her views. I am comfortable with assessing her as an intelligent, strong, capable, and withal competent person who will be up to the challenges and demands of the Oval Office should she find herself sitting in it prior to 2012--and, barring any major mishap between now and then, I would not be wholly surprised to see her sitting there anyway after 2012. Cool. Thank you for that.

sub4hire -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 8:53:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: celticlord2112 My only response is that I have answered this question. I have stated why I am comfortable with her being a "heartbeat away" from the Presidency, and have backed it up with detail. quote: I'm also comfortable with her being a heartbeat away from the presidency. First person so far that I have felt this way about in this election cycle. However, I still am not comfortable with McCain being the president. Palin has hands down more experience than the presidential candidate on the democratic side of the issue. Do I agree with Palin on everything. Not a chance. In life I have come to the conclusion that nobody except myself is going to feel the exact same way I do about everything in my life. Out of the choices..if she were running for president she would have my vote.

subtee -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 9:05:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sub4hire I'm also comfortable with her being a heartbeat away from the presidency. First person so far that I have felt this way about in this election cycle. However, I still am not comfortable with McCain being the president. Palin has hands down more experience than the presidential candidate on the democratic side of the issue. Do I agree with Palin on everything. Not a chance. In life I have come to the conclusion that nobody except myself is going to feel the exact same way I do about everything in my life. Out of the choices..if she were running for president she would have my vote. Interesting! Would you rather Palin be the Presidential nominee? I agree, no one will agree 100% with another on everything. Maybe I was naiive to be surprised/disappointed that some were using the exact language of talking heads?

sub4hire -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 9:13:27 AM)
I don't think I would vote for her if she were the presidential nominee. One reason being she lacks experience. Even though the job is on the job training. Nobody in my opinion is ready for the job when they get it. I'm still a bit troubled with Palin. Yet I weigh the pro's and the cons of each candidate. Out of the 4, Biden has the most experience in foreign affairs. Problem is Obama is not going to drop dead unless it's by an assassins bullet. Which is not going to happen. So Biden is not going to be the president. McCain could die anyday of natural causes as we all could. Elevated age though he is a bit closer than I am. Palin could be president. If I have to choose her or Obama..I choose her. I'd prefer not to have to choose either of them. I think you were naive to expect people to have "new" thoughts. After all where do people get their news from? They listen to those that they agree with..so they are going to echo the same sentiment if not the same wording. Sure, it would be nice if people could break from what they hear and do actual research. Think a little out of the box. Just don't see it happening anytime soon.

kittinSol -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 9:14:40 AM)
Tee, most television newsreaders (I use 'news' lightly here) and commentators mostly spew out what the parties' officials sell them; they act as middle-men for the stuff, and the viewers act as end of line customers. It's unsurprising they buy the stuff, since the aim of public relations is to sell convincing opinions. Then the viewers disseminate these ideas outside of their living-rooms, persuaded that they have come up with these brilliant analysis themselves. Hey presto: from party PR to average Jo guy via the newsreader, in one little manipulation. All this to say that it's unsurprising you are finding people repeating what they hear on telly verbatim: the stuff is designed to be convincing, and to be repeated. We live in a mercantile world [&o] .

subtee -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 9:49:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sub4hire I don't think I would vote for her if she were the presidential nominee. One reason being she lacks experience. Even though the job is on the job training. Nobody in my opinion is ready for the job when they get it. I'm still a bit troubled with Palin. Yet I weigh the pro's and the cons of each candidate. Out of the 4, Biden has the most experience in foreign affairs. Problem is Obama is not going to drop dead unless it's by an assassins bullet. Which is not going to happen. So Biden is not going to be the president. McCain could die anyday of natural causes as we all could. Elevated age though he is a bit closer than I am. Palin could be president. If I have to choose her or Obama..I choose her. I'd prefer not to have to choose either of them. It seems to me many share this sentiment: they'd rather have someone else than anyone nominated. quote: I think you were naive to expect people to have "new" thoughts. After all where do people get their news from? They listen to those that they agree with..so they are going to echo the same sentiment if not the same wording. Sure, it would be nice if people could break from what they hear and do actual research. Think a little out of the box. Just don't see it happening anytime soon. I wasn't hoping for new thoughts. Of course everyone's information has to come from somewhere and I'd much rather folks pay attention to the news than spout misinformation or their own ill-informed "facts." What I'm questioning is the usage of the exact same words. It seems to me the republicans have been very adept at crafting, iterating and disseminating concise, quotable, one- or two-lined talking points and having them reiterated. Over and over and over. While we may agree, that's not really one's original opinion, is it?

kittinSol -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 9:56:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtee It seems to me the republicans have been very adept at crafting, iterating and disseminating concise, quotable, one- or two-lined talking points and having them reiterated. Over and over and over. It's not new that in the political realm, the right, and the far right, are far more adept at manipulating language to sell a message: it's a talent that comes from rigid thinking and a categorical, manichean view of the world. I believe it's also a result of the desire to win at all cost, regardless of the common good. The right wins elections by mobilising the electorate around populist ideas and easy-to-remember slogans: that is how they score points. Devious, but not particularly brilliant: that is the right-wing way.

Thadius -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 10:05:05 AM)
quote: I wasn't hoping for new thoughts. Of course everyone's information has to come from somewhere and I'd much rather folks pay attention to the news than spout misinformation or their own ill-informed "facts." What I'm questioning is the usage of the exact same words. It seems to me the republicans have been very adept at crafting, iterating and disseminating concise, quotable, one- or two-lined talking points and having them reiterated. Over and over and over. While we may agree, that's not really one's original opinion, is it? I would disagree with your pointing at one side of the political spectrum as being solely responsible for this. I would even suggest that many of the folks around here spew forth more of the Dem talking points, without doing any fact checking, than some of the conservatives here do with Rep talking points. With few exceptions, very few on the Dem side can discuss the issues of what their candidate is proposing, much less any details of it. As an example, we keep hearing that Sen. Obama is going to be cutting taxes for 95% of working Americans. Which tax brackets is he cutting? The simple answer is not a single one. There are NO TAX CUTS in Obama's proposals, he has proposed tax credits for everybody. Therefore, everybody will still be paying the taxes they are now (except for those that are target for tax increases), and will only see any "relief" at filing time, when they may see the tax bill reduced because of the credit, or in many cases will actually be getting a check sent to them from money that they never paid in. As for many of the things talked about in reference to Gov. Palin, besides the rumors and such, the only things we have to talk about in terms of her is her record, therefore the same points are brought up in varying degrees and yes in some cases as the news has reported them. Just my opinion, Thadius

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