RE: "In my opinion..."

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philosophy -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 10:07:53 AM)
...there are very few new ideas. In chemistry we (broadly speaking) combine atoms to make compounds. If ideas can be thought of as atoms, let's call them memes......then we can do the same, combine memes to make new compounds of ideas. And let's not forget that pure research, every few years or so, finds a new element......so, occasionally new memes can be found, just occasionally......

kittinSol -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 10:11:38 AM)
I think was subtee addressing the issue of "textoing" things overheard on the media more than the paucity of new ideas - but she's only gone and disappeared. I hope the newspaper didn't eat her up :-) .

philosophy -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 10:16:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol I think was subtee addressing the issue of "textoing" things overheard on the media more than the paucity of new ideas - but she's only gone and disappeared. I hope the newspaper didn't eat her up :-) . ....true, but the media get their ideas/memes from the same general pool as the rest of us. At the end of the day it's not really what ideas you come into contact with that counts or where you got them, it's how you put two or more of them together.......

subtee -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 10:20:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius I would disagree with your pointing at one side of the political spectrum as being solely responsible for this. I don't believe I said or intimated sole responsibility. quote: I would even suggest that many of the folks around here spew forth more of the Dem talking points, without doing any fact checking, than some of the conservatives here do with Rep talking points. With few exceptions, very few on the Dem side can discuss the issues of what their candidate is proposing, much less any details of it. Wow! Why do you bother engaging with us then? I'm not going to comment on Obama's tax cut proposals, so as not to derail my own thread. [;)] As for many of the things talked about in reference to Gov. Palin, besides the rumors and such, the only things we have to talk about in terms of her is her record, therefore the same points are brought up in varying degrees and yes in some cases as the news has reported them. [Emphasis added.] It's the "and such" on which I was basing my original SP question.Would you care to answer it? I am curious about your opinion. (It was: "I am curious how you feel though; you really don't have any misgivings at all about [Sarah Palin]?" )

kittinSol -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 10:22:24 AM)
I agree with you, and the truly horrible thing with this election (since that's what's been monopolising much of our collective minds here anyway) is that the same bullshit gets repeated over and over the airwaves, only to land, like an identikit, or a clone, on your plate a few hours later (Palin has benefited immensely from this cretinisation of the news media).

sappatoti -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 10:24:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtee ... However, when someting is quoted, rather verbatim, isn't that disingenous to claim it as your own? Absolutely. Biden was taken to task earlier in his career for this type of thing.

philosophy -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 10:28:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol I agree with you, and the truly horrible thing with this election (since that's what's been monopolising much of our collective minds here anyway) is that the same bullshit gets repeated over and over the airwaves, only to land, like an identikit, or a clone, on your plate a few hours later (Palin has benefited immensely from this cretinisation of the news media). ...tell someone a lie often enough and they'll start to believe it. Humans are herd animals, in the main. Old theatre directors trick; audiences at live theatre don't always realise when the play is over. So the wise director sits at the back of the hall and primes the applause by clapping their hands once. The herd instinct kicks in and the audience spontaneously burst into applause. Same with news stories usually. We have a poster here, subrob i think it is, who routinely insists on calling Obama, 'Hussein'. Now it may be his middle name, but who gets called by their middle name? The objective is clearly to forge that unconscious link between Obama and middle eastern terrorism. To make people uncomfortable with him. Blatant propaganda, actually classic propaganda. The media routinely do much the same thing as subrob. If we get better at creating compound memes for ourselves, we inevitably get better at deconstructing other peoples compound memes....and what is propaganda but an applied compound meme?

Thadius -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 10:31:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtee quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius I would disagree with your pointing at one side of the political spectrum as being solely responsible for this. I don't believe I said or intimated sole responsibility. quote: I would even suggest that many of the folks around here spew forth more of the Dem talking points, without doing any fact checking, than some of the conservatives here do with Rep talking points. With few exceptions, very few on the Dem side can discuss the issues of what their candidate is proposing, much less any details of it. Wow! Why do you bother engaging with us then? I'm not going to comment on Obama's tax cut proposals, so as not to derail my own thread. [;)] As for many of the things talked about in reference to Gov. Palin, besides the rumors and such, the only things we have to talk about in terms of her is her record, therefore the same points are brought up in varying degrees and yes in some cases as the news has reported them. [Emphasis added.] It's the "and such" on which I was basing my original SP question.Would you care to answer it? I am curious about your opinion. (It was: "I am curious how you feel though; you really don't have any misgivings at all about [Sarah Palin]?" ) For the "and such", it is just that. More rumor and insinuation. I have been doing as much research as I possibly can on all of the candidates, checking for more than one source of a story and the facts behind it. Which is also why I haven't been posting all the crazy shit I find on various blogs of either side of the political prism. Do I have any misgivings about Sarah Palin? Of course, just like I do of all those running for a political office. However, most of my misgivings will or should be answered over the next few weeks, as she faces the scrutiny and inspection of upcoming interviews, out of the blue questions, and the debate. Particularly, I am curious as to how she will perform under pressure, and in a hostile environment. In other words, I want to know if she has the internal fortitude to stand by her convictions, how quick of a study is she, and how does she react when confronted. I hope that answers your question, Thadius

subtee -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 10:33:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: philosophy ....true, but the media get their ideas/memes from the same general pool as the rest of us. At the end of the day it's not really what ideas you come into contact with that counts or where you got them, it's how you put two or more of them together....... Exactly. It's when one doesn't put them together, but takes someone else's expression, verbatim, and then claim "my opinion" that I'm referring to. If nothing is ever original, why is it ever necessary to cite sources?

Sanity -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 10:44:52 AM)
Speaking of repeating the talking heads... One of the right-wing radio hosts calls Barack Obama "Millhouse" because it's supposed to be so offensive to use his real middle name. And some people would like to ban talk radio altogether too, wouldn't they. They don't ask rhetorical questions about it, they try to pass laws in Congress, calling the legislation things like "The Fairness Doctrine". quote: We have a poster here, subrob i think it is, who routinely insists on calling Obama, 'Hussein'. Now it may be his middle name, but who gets called by their middle name?

kittinSol -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 10:52:46 AM)
Was philo's point completely lost on you, or was it just a little too subtle [:D] ?

Sanity -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 11:00:08 AM)
I just think that's a funny name for Obama. "Millhouse"! Ban the speech, burn the book... But I like subrob, and hope he keeps right on posting! quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Was philo's point completely lost on you, or was it just a little too subtle [:D] ?

candystripper -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 11:30:34 AM)
subtee, what you're describing is plagraism. Some value the authorship and originiality of thought and are very offended by plargarism; in my day, it was one of the few things that could get you expelled from college (and drafted to the military to serve in Vietnam). In recent years, it seems we have come to accept this practice more and more...I trust and value the postings of those we I can rely on to attribute thoughts and words when appropriate more than I do those who do not....but I know I'm in a shrinking minority. candystripper [sm=pole.gif]

popeye1250 -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 11:36:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtee But is it though? Here's me: after engaging in discussion over important issues on several threads, I head to bed and turn on the TV. I'm a news junkie, so I flip through all of the news channels (yes, even including Fox). Somehow, the talking heads are saying the exact same things some here are saying--with the exact same verbiage. So it isn't really the posters' opinions, is it? Is it a kind of plagiarism to post thoughts, inferring they are your own, when quite often they are talking points proffered by a group with an agenda? Should it be cited as someone else's ideas, for example, "as they are saying on Fox News, 'blah, blah, blah'"? I posted the following question on one of the threads, seemingly shutting it down: "I am curious how you feel though; you really don't have any misgivings at all about [Sarah Palin]?" Not everyone does this, of course, but I'm rather disappointed in some who do. What do you think? Any apologists for SP care to answer the question? Subtee, "plagerism" doesn't seem to be an issue for the Dems, look who they're running for vice president, "Neal Kinnock!" lol

kittinSol -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 11:38:42 AM)
I disagree. I think what subtee is describing is malicious gossip disguised as self-righteous political discourse (see: Sanity's post above about the legitimacy of calling someone by their middle name, when it goes against established usage, because it serves his political purpose to unsubtly propagate the idea that he is a Muslim, therefore not a true American, and therefore, somewhat unworthy).

popeye1250 -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 11:42:01 AM)
Kittin, what is Abadabba's middle name?

Thadius -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 11:44:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol I disagree. I think what subtee is describing is malicious gossip disguised as self-righteous political discourse (see: Sanity's post above about the legitimacy of calling someone by their middle name, when it goes against established usage, because it serves his political purpose to unsubtly propagate the idea that he is a Muslim, therefore not a true American, and therefore, somewhat unworthy). Or the publishing of a list of books supposedly suggested to be banned... even though the list contains books not even in print or published at the time. Probably just more fear mongering, that only the right is capable of doing. [8\|]

kittinSol -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 11:46:44 AM)
Except that what some do seriously and with a nefarious agenda, others do for fun and frolics and to escape the grip of fascism [8\|] .

Thadius -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 11:56:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kittinSol Except that what some do seriously and with a nefarious agenda, others do for fun and frolics and to escape the grip of fascism [8\|] . Hmmm... so scaring the populace about a particular person as long as it is done for fun is okay? Would not the use of such tactics (you know the use of religious beliefs or other social issues) by a centralized powerbase (the liberals), in an attempt to disuade voters from exercising their rights, be similar to a fascist undertaking? Just to simplify my previous run on... The use of fear to control the populace, seems very similar in my mind, to the tactics of a fascist regime. Yeah, I know it's not the same thing....

kittinSol -> RE: "In my opinion..." (9/11/2008 12:00:32 PM)
What fucking tactics? Are you still referring to my posting a bogus list of books on the other thread, or are you referring to the disgusting habit of calling Senator Obama by his middle name? I know it's a habit of yours to laugh off serious things and to take trivia seriously in order to muddy the waters, so please, clarify what you are talking about.

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