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What if ? - 9/11/2008 5:06:48 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		What if the west laid down it's arms in countries where it is involved and showed the people of that country another side of the west, the caring side, what do you think would be the result ?

Do you think with our vast reserves of expertise and equipment, we could be doing something better than killing ?

If we adopted this role as the caring west, do you think we could make the world a better place ?

Why are we so aggressive ?


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone
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RE: What if ? - 9/11/2008 5:13:40 PM   
SeaDogret


Posts: 50
Joined: 2/17/2008
Status: offline 		what? Those people would over run us so fast you wouldn't believe it!! Suggest you read some history. My favorite quote is," if you want peace, prepare for war"  A little fear is some times required to keep the lid on. We have never fought a war for gain, usually we have given way too much away and are still hated, suggest we pull out of every place in world were we are disliked and quit giving away our tax dollars, use that money here at home, check United nations, that is a parasite on us and NY City, should move UN to Paris or Moscow

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RE: What if ? - 9/11/2008 5:16:17 PM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

What if the west laid down it's arms in countries where it is involved and showed the people of that country another side of the west, the caring side, what do you think would be the result ?

Do you think with our vast reserves of expertise and equipment, we could be doing something better than killing ?

If we adopted this role as the caring west, do you think we could make the world a better place ?

Why are we so aggressive ?




Because......... there is money in it

Jeff

(in reply to Aneirin)
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RE: What if ? - 9/11/2008 5:27:58 PM   
candystripper


Posts: 3486
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		The US is aggressive, IMO, because the short fix to a failing economy is warmongering; it creates 'jobs' in the military and makes millions or billions for certain 'preferred customers'.  We make war when we allow our politicos to scare us into thinking it's necessary, or even desirable.  We make war because we need something to do with all the military hardware we've acquired.  We make war because we like to show off.
 
Of all the reasons we make war, we do not defend our borders from invasion -- which IMO is about the only reason to do so.
 
candystripper 

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RE: What if ? - 9/11/2008 5:30:47 PM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		We do have a caring side, and we show it all the time.  We mobilize people and resources everytime there is a disaster in the world.  We did our best to lend a hand to the Burmese during their time of need.  We have poured billions of dollars into Third World countries all over the world.  Honestly, what else should we be doing? 

As for our aggression, we aren't that far removed from chimps running around the jungle clubbing each other for food and females.  It's just the way it is, and I don't expect much more from a species that only managed to master firemaking in the last 100k years.  We've got a long way to go.  The best you can hope for is that we don't annihilate ourselves in the coming centuries. 

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RE: What if ? - 9/11/2008 5:39:50 PM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

What if the west laid down it's arms in countries where it is involved and showed the people of that country another side of the west, the caring side, what do you think would be the result ?

Do you think with our vast reserves of expertise and equipment, we could be doing something better than killing ?

If we adopted this role as the caring west, do you think we could make the world a better place ?

Why are we so aggressive ?

Unless we ran like hell, we would likely get shot. Being passive, nuturing and caring is fine, but I regret that the places we manage to go into, that tactic wouldn't get you far against the ones that are already doing the killing. I'm never for war, but sometimes you just have to punch the other dude in the nose or he will keep trying to take your stuff. Our problem is, we take it way past the punching part and think we need to stomp the living crap out of them. Smack them and then leave, eventually they will get the idea.

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RE: What if ? - 9/11/2008 7:22:29 PM   
Vendaval


Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline 		Sweet Virgin in the Fade, Aneirin!  The questions you ask here sometimes lad. 
 
Short answer, humans are top level predators, our eyes face forward and we have long canines.  We evolved from apes and early homids that used agression for territorial disputes, hunting and obtaining breedable females.
 
The long answer is a fireside chat sometime in your fair country.

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RE: What if ? - 9/11/2008 7:29:12 PM   
bipolarber


Posts: 2792
Joined: 9/25/2004
Status: offline 		(considers this course of action) Nah...

If I've learned anything about dealing with other, theocratic, if not outright religious dictatorship style governments, it's that you have to deal with them by holding out the olive branch... but have a pistol stuffed in the back of your belt.


"...And we are here as on a darkling plain
Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight,
Where ignorant armies clash by night."
                                      -Matthew Arnold, Dover Beach

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RE: What if ? - 9/11/2008 7:36:49 PM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Why are we so aggressive ?



I'm going with fear, after all "we live in a dangerous world" loaded with weapons of mass destruction.
 
The most prevalent weapon of mass destruction, as I see it, the human mind.
 
Kim

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RE: What if ? - 9/11/2008 7:56:44 PM   
OneMoreWaste


Posts: 910
Joined: 8/24/2008
Status: offline 		Well, at the risk of being politically incorrect, I'm going to address this from the Imperialist American Running Pig-Dog perspective:
In Europe, we would be ignored. Really blatantly. Like, to the point of being obnoxious about it. You know, like "Tell Aneirin that I Said No" when you're standing right in the same room with them kinda deal.
In South America and most of Asia, we would be kicked the fuck out. 4
In the Middle East we'd be killed. With AK-47s. Then there would be dancing with high-pitched chanting.
In Africa we'd be killed. With machetes. Then there would be dancing with drums.
In Antarctica, we would be adopted by the penguins. Once they had control of our flying machines, they would take over the world.

< Message edited by OneMoreWaste -- 9/11/2008 8:39:52 PM >

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RE: What if ? - 9/12/2008 2:57:21 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

What if the west laid down it's arms in countries where it is involved and showed the people of that country another side of the west, the caring side, what do you think would be the result ?


Chaos and displacement.

quote:

Do you think with our vast reserves of expertise and equipment, we could be doing something better than killing ?


It is not about killing - that is nothing more than fear mongering.

quote:

If we adopted this role as the caring west, do you think we could make the world a better place ?


Absolutely not.  Although I already see caring - but you are speaking of being passive.

quote:

Why are we so aggressive ?


Subjective.  But if you want chaos and displacement feel free.  There are plenty of examples in the world that show how negative 'passiveness' is.
 
the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 9/12/2008 2:58:01 AM >

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RE: What if ? - 9/12/2008 3:18:00 AM   
lronitulstahp


Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline 		i think it's interesting that the OP referred to "The West", and several here have responded only about why "The U.S can't do ________".   

It's like having a conversation with a self-obsessed person sometimes....mayhaps the xenophobes run amok.
---------------------now to answer the OP
Even if i see the need for military involvement, and can't imagine stepping out of places where peace-keeping forces have been placed out of necessity, i understand how there might seem to be more aggression applied than needed.  At times, Western nations have taken advantage of the vulnerability, and instability elsewhere.  There is a fine line between interceding to help, and imperialism, that must be clearly determined.  i am more likely to support such efforts when it's not just one country, guns blazing, without the backing of multi-national organizations, and against the recommendations of it's fellow nations.  THAT, i would see in most cases, see as an act of aggresion.

edited for spelling...damn have and hvae LOL

< Message edited by lronitulstahp -- 9/12/2008 3:41:26 AM >

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RE: What if ? - 9/12/2008 3:20:25 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
Status: offline 		To quote Chomsky "If you want to stop terrorism, stop participating in it."

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RE: What if ? - 9/12/2008 3:24:23 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Why are we so aggressive ?



Because we fear everyone else is as bad as us and that the peoples we have  exploited, subjugated, murdered and enslaved will do the same to us. 

We have all the defence we need, we could just stop exploiting and murdering people tomorrow if we really wanted to.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/12/2008 3:26:59 AM >

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: What if ? - 9/12/2008 3:29:16 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

What if the west laid down it's arms in countries where it is involved and showed the people of that country another side of the west, the caring side, what do you think would be the result ?

Do you think with our vast reserves of expertise and equipment, we could be doing something better than killing ?

If we adopted this role as the caring west, do you think we could make the world a better place ?

Why are we so aggressive ?




Because......... there is money in it

Jeff


Too true. We exploit, subjugate and murder people for money. Money is Bush's civilized values. It used to be Britains but we haven't got the power to shake our dick at anyone anymore, never mind exploit, enslave and murder.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/12/2008 3:31:39 AM >

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: What if ? - 9/12/2008 3:54:44 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		Ok, how about this then, we have the weapons, we have the expertise to use them, but we would rather just help you not kill you. Sure there will be a few attempts, by some militant individuals, bit like stone throwing at something that you think represents the anger you feel, but cannot define, but largely I think people would be glad of help and the knowledge that the weapons the west possesses are an absolute last resort, not a first action.

A nation's armed forces to me, should be for the defence of that country, the defence of it's borders, not the military conquest of old.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: What if ? - 9/12/2008 4:05:27 AM   
BKSir


Posts: 4037
Joined: 4/8/2008
From: Salt Lake City, UT
Status: offline 		Aneirin, I hate to say it, even if I agree with you, but... here goes.

My old sociology teacher put it best, I think, when he said, at the end of the school year, "So, this is what we've learned here, and all of the things we've discussed, and hopefully my fears are incorrect, although I doubt they are, when I say 'We, as a species, are JUST smart and greedy enough, to figure out new and more inventive ways of getting ourselves killed.'."

Sadly, I think that sums it up best.


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RE: What if ? - 9/12/2008 4:07:10 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
A nation's armed forces to me, should be for the defence of that country, the defence of it's borders, not the military conquest of old.



Maybe someone should had told Georgia that.
 
the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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RE: What if ? - 9/12/2008 4:14:32 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin
A nation's armed forces to me, should be for the defence of that country, the defence of it's borders, not the military conquest of old.



Maybe someone should had told Georgia that.
 
the.dark.

 
Georgia's problems started when they started murdering Russian citizens and thinking the US would come to its aid if necessary.

Interesting article..
 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/12/putin.georgia

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 9/12/2008 4:15:06 AM >

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There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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RE: What if ? - 9/12/2008 4:20:54 AM   
meatcleaver


Posts: 9030
Joined: 3/13/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

A nation's armed forces to me, should be for the defence of that country, the defence of it's borders, not the military conquest of old.



Everyone claims their armed forces are for self defence already, though defence being Newspeak for war.

_____________________________

There are fascists who consider themselves humanitarians, like cannibals on a health kick, eating only vegetarians.

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