RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ?

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subtee -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/11/2008 10:28:17 PM)
Jesus...I honestly can't believe this. And I'm feeling rather like an alien for feeling like there should be some fucking respect for our country being attacked and 3000 people dying. You're thinking about the bother of traffic? I fucking remember much of the world standing with us and crying with us, taking a moment of silence. This is shameful.

scifi1133 -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/11/2008 10:31:02 PM)
You know I was not going to post here, but I can't help myself. I was there along with 10 other guys from our department helping do search and rescue. The things I saw will stay with me for the rest of my life. I think this thread is in very bad taste.

MarksFantasyGirl -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/11/2008 10:42:43 PM)
I am just wondering, Subtee, with all do respect, when was the last time you sat and cried and mourned for the people that were killed when Pearl Harbor was bombed durring world war II? Scifi, I believe that what you did was very respectful, and very heroic... I would never have been able to do what you did.. so thank you very much for doing that... And I mean you no disrespect from my posts... All I am trying to say is I don't believe that it is shameful to feel this way... I really don't... My best friend died of kidney failier when I was in 9th grade... she had to deal with pain and suffering her entire life... however, the world didn't stop for her... there weren't any news stories about her at all... She wasn't even mentioned at our graduation.. and it wasn't even a big graduation... I finished school with 35 other people... that was from the whole school... Seriously... and no one cared... I just want to know who the hell gets to choose what is "National holiday" worthy and what isn't... \ Wow.. I need to go to bed before I start arguing with myself! lol

Racquelle -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/11/2008 10:45:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtee So... because you weren't living in the vacinity others' expressions and feelings are disingenuous? Wow. No, actually, its because some of them ARE disingenuous expressions. We have each heard people say seemingly empathetic things (not just about 9/11) that didn't ring true to us - and I guess its because I respect that there are people who experienced terrible personal loss that I don't want to be one of those people who side-busts their pain with my own sorrowful b;ubbering (or angry indigantion, for that matter). 9/11 may be about US but it really isn't about ME. I lived in New Jersey post 9/11 and I got a little sense of how much it really affected people who were close - everyone knew someone, everyone lost someone, everyone missed someone for real every single day. It just didn't affect me that same way, and it would be pretty offensive for me to act like it did. But I don't look at someone else and say "you should shut the fuck up" when they seem to be acting like that. I just don't choose to engage in it with them.

cuddlemesoft1 -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/11/2008 10:47:15 PM)
Oh... I wanted to say that I do understand those who are fed up with all the memorials and such that go on still 7 yrs later. I didn't watch any of it myself as I believe it is now a personal matter for those who suffered or want to acknowledge it in thier own way. If someone in Nevada wants to light a candle even though they never knew anyone in NY ever, well I think that is thier business and shows thier humaness on some level. But to me it seems disingenuous to have all that stuff televised. It should be a day for those most deeply affected by it to remember the day how they chose to and not have to be bombarded by politicians wanting a photo op. To televise it seems only like a way to profit from it somehow and truth be told the media coverage when it happened was probably too much and became a competition for all the networks to get another angle that would be more sensational than the next but at that time the world and the US was in a state of shock. For many of us it was a way to come to terms that it really did happen and that our country and sense of security will never be the same. That that many lives can be taken in an instance because a few people choose it to be so. That the worlds problems have landed squarely on our doorstep. Yes those who lived in NYC were the ones who felt the tremendous impact of it all being played out in front of them and I can't imagine the terror and sadness of the situation nor would I want to, but around the country we experienced it on some level. For those who come to the city in thier "I heart NY" tshirts and look at those that lived through it with sympathetic eyes and believe it makes them some how part of anyone's personal healing to say how sorry they are- just know that they mean well. They cannot heal when they don't understand what is broken and I am sure that is an individual hurt for each and ever person that suffered first hand. Bottom line I think the televised memorials and those that profit from them are wrong. Yes it should never be forgotten and our children's children should learn from the experience as we have hopefully learned from our fore father's past experiences. But to play on-going news reels at this point is a little offensive to those who want to remember "or forget" as they so choose. Just my opinion.

MarksFantasyGirl -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/11/2008 10:51:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cuddlemesoft1 Bottom line I think the televised memorials and those that profit from them are wrong. Yes it should never be forgotten and our children's children should learn from the experience as we have hopefully learned from our fore father's past experiences. But to play on-going news reels at this point is a little offensive to those who want to remember "or forget" as they so choose. Just my opinion. I completely agree!!

subtee -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/11/2008 10:54:43 PM)
Thank you for respecting my posts enough to address me directly. I mourned for Pearl Harbor when I visited the memorial 2 years ago. It was especially poignant because after actually being there my grandfather finally talked (a little bit) about his experiences being captain of a minesweeper in Japan. He was scheduled to go in the day after Hiroshima. He didn't know he wouldn't be doing that until we dropped the bomb. But. The main point is that even though this shit doesn't happen necessarily to you and me (I'm in bofuck Iowa, after all), it fucking matters. The world was changed after 9/11. I'm sad for those of you who can't feel it.

cuddlemesoft1 -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/11/2008 11:04:02 PM)
one more thing...before I crawl up to bed. Pearl Harbor is very much remembered by those who were alive at that time. Here is an article about the restoration of a memorial in Pearl Harbor printed 9/9/08. http://www.viewnews.com/2008/VIEW-Sep-09-Tue-2008/anthem/23740774.html I'm sure as time passes the attention will fade and turn to more immediate matters and 9/11 will be a blurb during a newscast between an armed robbery and the high school football scores. And one day in the distant future there will be noone alive that remembers the day and some kid will look at it in his text book and think about it with the same distance and uninterest as kids now look at stories of Pearl Harbor.

lofa -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/11/2008 11:04:59 PM)
(This post is not directed at the last poster who posted, nor at the poster that my click to reply was upon when I began this, but to anyone who should happen to care to contemplate it. Though I surely do agree with beargonewilds' bottom line and with the sentiment expressed by the bottom line of subtee.) I watched for the first couple of weeks after the attack upon our country, I learned there was plenty of error on our part, some right moves to control loss as quickly as possible knowing next to nothing, shock, sorrow and resolve. I do watch something new about it perhaps. I ALWAYS notice the towers when they appear in my line of vision. And everyday may be a mourning day, just as everyday may also be a day to be glad in. Sorry that this one feels he has anything to wonder about. I wonder who The SON of GOD told "you" (any/everyone) to kill today. I wonder, did I not read, (and do I not believe?) that I was told to make HIS WORD available to all if I could? And I wonder, if I (and every other who would claim that NAME of HIS and proclaim that they have Salvation therein) were told to "turn the other cheek", and accept revilement and abuse and death in HIS NAME, and HE had commanded those who would follow HIM to slay none, then who first broke that order from HIM and began leading the flock astray. I wonder also if, had no follower of HIS ever slain in HIS name then would those who would now claim HIS NAME still being made to pay for the sins of the fathers. (Though it would not have been the sin of slaying in HIS NAME now, would it?) Did not HIS FATHER repose all authority in HIS SON? I do not wonder about this though, the history of the Jewish people, as recorded everywhere that I know of to look for it, contains much too much that has come to be, to be ignored. For any reason. No matter how confusedly my bretheren have related HIS WORD to me,,,,,,,,,,, this one is gonna wimp out now and quit using words that are quite probably antagonistic to way too many. Discretion trumping valor??? Cowardlyness coming to the fore??? Great days to all. Jesus, Please bless the world.

aravain -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/11/2008 11:13:04 PM)
In reply to the original post: Me... But I was in High School. I kinda shrugged it off. It happened while I was in history and we were talking about the bubonic plauge... it seemed kinda small in comparison. shrug But I don't consider myself a 'good american' or anything like that, either. I consider myself a human being, living under the citizenship of America purely because it is necessary and simpler than doing otherwise. I also put weird value on human life. Granted, maybe things would have been different for me if I was remotely connected to the attacks at all... but I'm not. To this day I don't know anyone (that is to say, I don't know anyone personally or through another person. I know people who know people that were related to WTC employees that died... but that's hardly a connection) that was hurt, there, or died in the attacks... or really even affected (beyond the obvious ways that everyone was). So to me it's like a relic of history... even though it's recent. It was kinda funny, I didn't even remember about it today... I was walking with my friend to class and lo and behold someone had set up, like, 100 of those little flags in a lawn. I had to ask what it was about shrug

subtee -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/11/2008 11:14:57 PM)
Jesus I give up.

MrRodgers -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/11/2008 11:36:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtee You don't want to see this post. This is sad. And, I think, completely inappropriate to post on this day. I'm sorry your Mom was harsh to you, but damn. Our country was attacked. It means nothing? You're annoyed with peoples' feelings about it? Sad. Yes, let's remember 9/11 but for the crying and unhappy, frustrated widows and their families left behind and mourn with them for what has become about 4000 dead with the help of the most incompetant, criminally neglegent, bumbling, arrogant admin. to ever run our executive branch. Many of these widows cringed and crying, disavowing the 9/11 commission as lies...rendering their fallen as unsolved manslaughter. Yes, let us remember and mourn for them. And oh, BTW, no I didn't watch the TV at all or watch the corrupt corporate repeats of this sham. It all gives me a sick feeling in my stomach.

aravain -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/11/2008 11:40:51 PM)
:\ I don't understand why it's so important to you that some random bunch of text on the internet feels that same way as you do. Honestly? It's very childish. I understand that some people will never be the same, whether they were connected to the attacks or not (my own mother is one of those people) but at the same time, that shouldn't be cause for me to be as deeply affected as another person. AAAAAAAAAND I qualified my post with the fact that I put strange values on human life... namely that there isn't any. But that's another story entirely. All-in-all, I think it's bad taste to be taking a moral high-ground with someone (in this case me) who you don't know, whose ideologies you don't know, and who you can't even begin to imagine. Mourning doesn't make sense to me. To me it seems like an insult to those who are gone. To me, mourning someone, especially a person that you've never known, is one of the biggest displays of DISrespect that you can show someone who's passed. :\ And honey, by trying to insist that everyone should mourn for other people in order to be 'human' you're making a pretty big leap as to what constitutes the word. It's a species. We're an animal. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't try to put some sort of standard or degree of 'humanness' on people based on your own moral/ethical/whatever dictations. We're all different... different thoughts, different feelings, and, most of all, different beliefs.

MrRodgers -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/11/2008 11:45:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtee Jesus...I honestly can't believe this. And I'm feeling rather like an alien for feeling like there should be some fucking respect for our country being attacked and 3000 people dying. You're thinking about the bother of traffic? I fucking remember much of the world standing with us and crying with us, taking a moment of silence. This is shameful. You are right subtee...absolutely right. I think about the 9/11 dead and their widows and family all the time not just once a year. As I have written...not for very long I begin to hate the feeling. 9/11 was an abomination and 1/21/09...will be a day of celebration no matter who wins.

MrRodgers -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/12/2008 12:06:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aravain :\ I don't understand why it's so important to you that some random bunch of text on the internet feels that same way as you do. Honestly? It's very childish. I understand that some people will never be the same, whether they were connected to the attacks or not (my own mother is one of those people) but at the same time, that shouldn't be cause for me to be as deeply affected as another person. AAAAAAAAAND I qualified my post with the fact that I put strange values on human life... namely that there isn't any. But that's another story entirely. All-in-all, I think it's bad taste to be taking a moral high-ground with someone (in this case me) who you don't know, whose ideologies you don't know, and who you can't even begin to imagine. Mourning doesn't make sense to me. To me it seems like an insult to those who are gone. To me, mourning someone, especially a person that you've never known, is one of the biggest displays of DISrespect that you can show someone who's passed. :\ And honey, by trying to insist that everyone should mourn for other people in order to be 'human' you're making a pretty big leap as to what constitutes the word. It's a species. We're an animal. Nothing more, nothing less. Don't try to put some sort of standard or degree of 'humanness' on people based on your own moral/ethical/whatever dictations. We're all different... different thoughts, different feelings, and, most of all, different beliefs. Look, we understand it is easy to assume a certain vanity in those who would blog about remembering 9/11, like bumber stickers, ribbons and lapel pins too...but two things... I mourn all of the dead that DIDN'T HAVE to DIE and went up into those building to save lives, did just that...and didn't come down. Does anybody try to be a dead hero ? I think not. Furthermore, no moral ambiguity is created by whom one does or doesn't remember or mourn for their death.

K7779 -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/12/2008 12:17:07 AM)
Fuck it. What I wrote wasn't that interesting.

MrRodgers -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/12/2008 12:32:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: K7779 I don't really believe the world has changed after 9/11 in any substantial way whatsoever. In a hundred years or so, if not already, the whole event will seem like a shadow among shadows in the wake of World War II. To up the ante, I might add that possibly very little progress has really occurred at all in the last 50 years, or ever. It's like... the industrialized West goes about murdering, pillaging, corrupting, feigning some control over the universe, the weak stealing from the weaker for what ultimate gain... penicillin, Rocky Mountains? For some lucky but ultimately un-unique few whose unimportant lives are extended a few unimportant years. Bravo. Don't worry -- they would have dropped an atom bomb instead, they just didn't have the money, and hijacking a plan is a lot cheaper. The change that I haven't witnessed is acknowledgment that this struggle in which human beings and all animals participate is born out of weakness, not strength. Competition is weakness; the winner in any competition is not the stronger, but the less weak. Progress, change, would be to become beings that universally are above competition, above struggle for things as simple as clean water and, yes, penicillin, capable of sustaining themselves and anyone that seeks sustenance, for as long as they desire. Yes, ok by all means, but where is my 20% ? That isn't too deep for you is it ? I need it...helps extend my unimportant life.

deliciousmorsel -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/12/2008 1:18:17 AM)
Hey, it was horrible, move on already. Is your day of sniveling worth the deaths and maimings of our fine young people in Iraq? Meditate on that one. I didn't see any of you folks getting in a lather over the thousands who died in New Orleans Corps of Engineers Flood during Katrina - just New Orleans, there were many more in Mississippi and even more in Hurricane Rita two weeks later. Then thousands more through the next year, of shock, disease from the water, of no medical care, like the Third World. You ready for this in your neighborhood? August 27 was three years. No President, no candidates, no squat. Thousands killed by The Corps of Engineers sloth and refusal to do even minimal maintenance of levys and you all howl over 9/11 but ignore the outrage more likely to kill you in your house. New Orleans was grazed by a Cat 3 storm and the stupidest engineering nightmare in the US did what Congress was told it would. They didn't care either. That asshole in the White House let old ladies die on the streets in America because he couldn't bother to send out water and you all still shriek about the same terrorism that's dogged the rest of the world for decades? Welcome to the planet USA. That Trade Center thing makes a tiny dent in the casualties in Europe over the last 40 years. Wait until the car bombs every week start up. Like Paris or London? Oh- The Canadian Mounties were the first responders to the Corps Flood in New Orleans. Be ashamed. There were actually white people in N'Awlins too; apparently it makes a difference if they're on TV but it's OK to just let black people drown. White people are worth a million and a half a piece? Was that the going rate for New Yorkers who died rich?? Screw 9-11. It's rascist, hysterical, and a big manipulative distraction from more important things, like the floods in the Midwest this summer. Are those people worth a million dollars each?

NuevaVida -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/12/2008 1:43:44 AM)
~ Fast Reply ~ While other deaths are indeed tragic, there is a difference between those dying of diseases and storms and our country being attacked. Personally I think those images should be shown whenever possible and not just on the anniversary, so that we don't forget and once again become lethargic and take our freedom for granted. I do find it horrible that so many people were killed, and I, out here in the west, was affected by loss as well. Move on? Not until our freedom is once again ensured and when I know we are no longer so vulnerable to the antics of terrorists. And yes, I shed tears at the Vietnam Memorial and at the Korean War Memorial, and at the WWII Memorial, and at what happened in Oklahoma City. I love my country and we're going to the dogs because less and less people give a shit. This thread is evidence to me that no one cares until they are personally affected and then WHOA - stop the presses - now it's a problem. I wasn't going to post on this thread, but the apathy expressed here is very troubling.

ThatDaveGuy69 -> RE: Who else didn't glue themselves to the tv over 9/11 ? (9/12/2008 2:47:26 AM)
I'll try to be brief, but probably won't succeed... Every living, breathing, sentient human has feelings and they are completely ligitimate. It is one of the very few things that separate us from the rest of the animal kingdom. The level of cynicism the OP and a couple of others in this thread amazes even me - and I'm one one the single-most cynical people you'll ever have the pleasure of meeting. This is clearly one of those issues where you maybe should have kept your opinions to yourself. But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.* There has been a lot of mention of "disingenuine" feelings. I don't think that mere distance has any effect on feelings. If the events and images of 9/11 had a sobering effect on you and you mourned the loss of life, no one has any right to belittle how you felt. And if you choose not to have any feelings at all about it then that's OK too. You're in a very small minority, but hey, party on, Wayne... What is truly disingenuine (did I spell that correctly?) is the way our selected president - and the mayor at the time - and a ton of other politicians - have used the events to further their own political agendas. I can't say I'm a fan of Keith Olbermann - I detest 24-hour cable news - but he really seems to have nailed it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PERKBFgg_I And while we're talking disingenuine, to "MarksFantasyGirl" and several others: change your forum image - you don't look anything like that! Sorry, my mind wandered... I did my level-best to NOT watch any of the 9-11 memorial/cash-in-on-a-tragedy shows. I started to watch something on what happened onboard one of the planes but after 5 minutes I realized I just didn't need to see computer-generated re-enactments. I'm in Chicago and I can remember where I was when the 1st plane hit: I was about 5 minutes away from walking into work. When I got in, everyone was gathered in the lunch room with the TV on. I pretty much went numb. I didn't freak out or panic. Nor did I ignore it. I watched and listened. And then I went to my desk and started working in a sort of slow-motion way. The radio station I listen to scrapped all commercials and just played music and an occassional update. Sometime around 11 we were told we could go home. I didn't want to be caught in the rush so I just sat at my desk and worked. When I finally left around 12:30, the downtown streets were empty. It was surreal. When I got home I hugged my wife and held my 1yo daughter. I still felt pretty numb. I put on the TV and picked up what little new information there was. I saw the towers fall so many times that the images will stay with me forever. We ate dinner, we went to bed. I got up the next morning and went to work. It was THEE topic of discussion. And immdiately, the conspiracy theories began to take shape. But that's a whole other thread... The greatest tragedy of that day was not the loss of life nor the loss of America's terrorist-attack cherry. The real tragedy was what has become of this nation since then. Homeland Security, The Patriot Act, warrentless wiretaps, Iraq, airport "security", and on and on and on. OK, enough ranting. It's almost 5am after another sleepless night and I reallly need some rest. Shields up, flame away. ~Dave *Bonus points for identifying the quote.

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